Like it or not, America is becoming a post-white nation

[Asclepias]

I believe that both Constitutionalism (which came from natural laws passed down from White European tradition) and Christianity provide America structure that ALLOWS for free exercise, inclusion and protection of diversity.

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

 

[Godboy]

I believe that both Constitutionalism (which came from natural laws passed down from White European tradition) and Christianity provide America structure that ALLOWS for free exercise, inclusion and protection of diversity.

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

Pff. God damn you believe in stupid shit!!!!

 

[Asclepias]

I believe that both Constitutionalism (which came from natural laws passed down from White European tradition) and Christianity provide America structure that ALLOWS for free exercise, inclusion and protection of diversity.

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

Pff. God damn you believe in stupid shit!!!!

Are you always this uninformed or just having a bad day?

Iroquois Confederacy is foundation of United States Constitution | FNX | First Nations Experience

Congress, on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the signing of the United States Constitution, "acknowledged the historical debt which this Republic of the United States of America owes to the Iroquois Confederacy and other Indian Nations for their demonstration of enlightened, democratic principles of government and their example of a free association of independent Indian Nations."

Whereas, the original framers of the constitution, including most notably, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, are known to have greatly admired the concepts, principles and government practices of the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy; and

Whereas, the Confederation of the original thirteen colonies into one Republic was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Confederacy as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the Constitution itself; and,

 

[RKMBrown]

The only thing school taught me besides how to read, write, and do math is to go make someone else wealthy after spending 4 more years in college figuring out in what field to do it in. It helps to have a foundation education but people really need to look at being producers/owners vs consumers/worker bees.

Ding ding ding!!!

How can you be so right on this matter... yet appear to deny your brothers the same thing by instead pushing for country wide policies where producers/owners are demonized and taxed to hell and back so that low paid and out of work worker bees can "get along" with welfare without having to work hard or learn more marketable skills? The solution for better schools is not more funding, it's harder work and better mentoring.

Why would you presumably deny the minimum wage worker the opportunity to better themselves by instead giving them more money in welfare than they can earn if they try harder? I'd think black community leaders such as yourself would do better for your community than pushing AA & welfare crutches.

Or are you really a conservative and are just trolling a bunch of white folk?

I dont deny my brothers anything. I preach this to everyone I establish a relationship with by giving back what was taught to me. The problem is that it takes time to tear down then build somebody back up to the right way of thinking. Who is going to provide the safety net until that happens? i dont know what you would call me and no i am not trolling white people. Some of them just say some stupid uninformed shit that makes me laugh.

Who are you and where did you put Asclepias? You are preaching to the choir now!

You'll find most conservative libertarian types, such as myself, are not against hand-up systems where people get temporary help targeted to get people back on their feet. There are a great many hand-up programs that are managed by local community organizations. Unfortunately our current federal system is not a hand-up system it is a hand-out system. Hand-up systems are better but need to be managed locally. A federal check mailed from 2k miles away... there's no mentoring with an anonymous check. The feds don't measure their welfare systems by success, they measure the systems by the amount of money they hand out. The most successful welfare system would be one in which no one needs it. The current system is not sustainable. The honor system is not working.

A great many people on welfare never get off. Never getting off is not temporary. The welfare reforms put in place under Clinton have been turned off by Obama. This trend is not acceptable.

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe that both Constitutionalism (which came from natural laws passed down from White European tradition) and Christianity provide America structure that ALLOWS for free exercise, inclusion and protection of diversity.

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

That's even better! That shows it is a compilation of the approach to "natural laws" which of course the Native Americans are under. This confirms how "natural laws" are truly universal.
Thanks for this!
(Note: someone else also pointed me to a reference in the Bible to three divisions of govt authority, where "Lord" is "Authority of LAW": Isaiah 33:22 -
For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us.)

What I was more referring to was the European philosophers from John Locke, Rousseau, the English common laws, the social contract, the natural rights of man, etc. etc. etc.

All that wonderful history that went into the debates, the spirit and writing of the laws.
(It could also be noted that the founders joined in praying for divine wisdom and guidance before writing the laws; so this is also a Christian concept/teachings of joining in agreement that God's will be received and done.)

Jefferson's statement in the Declaration on the just powers of govt derived from the consent of the governed, which to me is the basic spirit of all our laws and government, but ironically appears nowhere in the Constitution itself. So it is more than just the writing and structure but the SPIRIT of Constitutional and natural laws.

That is really cool that it is a marriage of both the European traditions of natural laws and the Native Americans. I think it makes the point even stronger, and it still speaks to the Eurocentric tradition of passing down written laws to commit them to conscience and to history.

As for the spirit of Christianity, the concept and process of Justice coming to fulfill the laws applies to both the scriptural laws of the church and the natural / civil laws of the state.

The concept is universal and comes from God or Life/Nature/Creation, but the teaching of this concept as the spirit of the law being fulfilled in Christ is definitely a Christian tradition.

It happens to apply to all lineages, cultures, laws and religions. But Christianity offers symbolism to teach this in a centralizing unifying way, if used for that purpose as I believe it is intended, for universal salvation and inclusion of all tribes nations and humanity.

Thank you, A! I will try to find a good place to give you rep. If not on that msg, on another one that has multiple good points.

 

[Asclepias]

Ding ding ding!!!

How can you be so right on this matter... yet appear to deny your brothers the same thing by instead pushing for country wide policies where producers/owners are demonized and taxed to hell and back so that low paid and out of work worker bees can "get along" with welfare without having to work hard or learn more marketable skills? The solution for better schools is not more funding, it's harder work and better mentoring.

Why would you presumably deny the minimum wage worker the opportunity to better themselves by instead giving them more money in welfare than they can earn if they try harder? I'd think black community leaders such as yourself would do better for your community than pushing AA & welfare crutches.

Or are you really a conservative and are just trolling a bunch of white folk?

I dont deny my brothers anything. I preach this to everyone I establish a relationship with by giving back what was taught to me. The problem is that it takes time to tear down then build somebody back up to the right way of thinking. Who is going to provide the safety net until that happens? i dont know what you would call me and no i am not trolling white people. Some of them just say some stupid uninformed shit that makes me laugh.

Who are you and where did you put Asclepias? You are preaching to the choir now!

You'll find most conservative libertarian types, such as myself, are not against hand-up systems where people get temporary help targeted to get people back on their feet. There are a great many hand-up programs that are managed by local community organizations. Unfortunately our current system federal system is not a hand-up system it is a hand-out system. Hand-up systems are better but need to be managed locally. A federal check mailed from 2k miles away... there's no mentoring with an anonymous check. The feds don't measure their welfare systems by success, they measure the systems by the amount of money they hand out. The most successful welfare system would be one in which no one needs it. The current system is not sustainable. The honor system is not working.

A great many people on welfare never get off. Never getting off is not temporary. The welfare reforms put in place under Clinton have been turned off by Obama. This trend is not acceptable.

It only looks like a hand out system until you get up close and personal. Without a doubt people abuse the system but you cant shut it down to spite those few. Some people simply will never get off and I am ok with that as I know that is what happens in a capitalistic society. I can make all the money I want to but in return I have to give back to those less fortunate for whatever reason.

 

[Asclepias]

I believe that both Constitutionalism (which came from natural laws passed down from White European tradition) and Christianity provide America structure that ALLOWS for free exercise, inclusion and protection of diversity.

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

That's even better! That shows it is a compilation of the approach to "natural laws" which of course the Native Americans are under. This confirms how "natural laws" are truly universal.
Thanks for this!
(Note: someone else also pointed me to a reference in the Bible to three divisions of govt authority, where "Lord" is "Authority of LAW": Isaiah 33:22 -
For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us.)

What I was more referring to was the European philosophers from John Locke, Rousseau, the English common laws, the social contract, the natural rights of man, etc. etc. etc.

All that wonderful history that went into the debates, the spirit and writing of the laws.
(It could also be noted that the founders joined in praying for divine wisdom and guidance before writing the laws; so this is also a Christian concept/teachings of joining in agreement that God's will be received and done.)

Jefferson's statement in the Declaration on the just powers of govt derived from the consent of the governed, which to me is the basic spirit of all our laws and government, but ironically appears nowhere in the Constitution itself. So it is more than just the writing and structure but the SPIRIT of Constitutional and natural laws.

That is really cool that it is a marriage of both the European traditions of natural laws and the Native Americans. I think it makes the point even stronger, and it still speaks to the Eurocentric tradition of passing down written laws to commit them to conscience and to history.

As for the spirit of Christianity, the concept and process of Justice coming to fulfill the laws applies to both the scriptural laws of the church and the natural / civil laws of the state.

The concept is universal and comes from God or Life/Nature/Creation, but the teaching of this concept as the spirit of the law being fulfilled in Christ is definitely a Christian tradition.

It happens to apply to all lineages, cultures, laws and religions. But Christianity offers symbolism to teach this in a centralizing unifying way, if used for that purpose as I believe it is intended, for universal salvation and inclusion of all tribes nations and humanity.

Thank you, A! I will try to find a good place to give you rep. If not on that msg, on another one that has multiple good points.

My rep is off. Gives ulcers to the rabid racists.

 

[Godboy]

Hate to nitpick one thing out of your post but the idea of the constitution came from the Iroquois not Europeans or christianity.

Pff. God damn you believe in stupid shit!!!!

Are you always this uninformed or just having a bad day?

Iroquois Confederacy is foundation of United States Constitution | FNX | First Nations Experience

Congress, on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the signing of the United States Constitution, "acknowledged the historical debt which this Republic of the United States of America owes to the Iroquois Confederacy and other Indian Nations for their demonstration of enlightened, democratic principles of government and their example of a free association of independent Indian Nations."

Whereas, the original framers of the constitution, including most notably, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, are known to have greatly admired the concepts, principles and government practices of the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy; and

Whereas, the Confederation of the original thirteen colonies into one Republic was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Confederacy as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the Constitution itself; and,

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

 

[emilynghiem]

You cant selectively say private education since it does not encompass everyone. I said this country, not some in this country. Democrats are actually proven to be more educated than Republicans if you can believe that.

Everything else you said is deflection of my point. We have fallen behind since we are not number 1. Please don't deflect again. This is due primarily to racial issues as I see it brought about by whites feeling they are entitled to be on top. If that dynamic was not there I think we could be light years ahead of all other countries since we are probably the most diverse. The right seems against inclusion and the left seems to be doing over kill on helping everyone get to the table.

Hi A: I'm still going through your other msgs.

To return the favor, in pointing out the influence and contributions of Iroquois,
the co-author of the campus plans to replace govt welfare with sustainable education
http://www.campusplan.org
said that the original concept of the college system came from Africans.

Is this true, can you research where he got that from?

He is African American, and I do credit him (Lenwood Johnson) and other "poor blacks" in a Democrat district for co-authoring these plans in collaboration with volunteers from Rice University (where I graduated) using the residential college system there as a model.

So if it is true that the university/college system came from Africans first, that would show it wasn't just the Europeans who contributed to this tradition of education and organization.

And also, this example of converting public housing into a sustainable campus to end the cycle of poverty and dependence on Govt came from a historic Black community.

The irony is that the founding of it was through Freed Slaves who were forced to build businesses and homes independent of any govt help because they were rejected and not considered citizens. And it wasn't until the govt was abused to take the land from the descendants and start controlling the resources that the history was destroyed and the residents could not get any help to save the historic community. Nobody wants to go against the corporate and political interests in cahoots with govt. Not Democrats Not Republicans. So these residents put together this SOLUTION to end welfare and nobody backs the plans. I posted them on Freedmen's Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing Our team is a mix of community members with the Green, Democrat, Republican parties but can't get help.

Maybe the Libertarians might be interested in stepping in and making this district their HQ?
It has a federal reserve building, erected over a former site of historic burials, so if the Black leaders want to unite to create a Federal Reserve system to pay back debts owed to taxpayers for damages to African American national history, and for abuses of govt authority on evictions and demolitions to censor these campus plans, this would be ideal.

 

[Asclepias]

Pff. God damn you believe in stupid shit!!!!

Are you always this uninformed or just having a bad day?

Iroquois Confederacy is foundation of United States Constitution | FNX | First Nations Experience

Whereas, the original framers of the constitution, including most notably, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, are known to have greatly admired the concepts, principles and government practices of the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy; and

Whereas, the Confederation of the original thirteen colonies into one Republic was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Confederacy as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the Constitution itself; and,

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

 

[Asclepias]

You cant selectively say private education since it does not encompass everyone. I said this country, not some in this country. Democrats are actually proven to be more educated than Republicans if you can believe that.

Everything else you said is deflection of my point. We have fallen behind since we are not number 1. Please don't deflect again. This is due primarily to racial issues as I see it brought about by whites feeling they are entitled to be on top. If that dynamic was not there I think we could be light years ahead of all other countries since we are probably the most diverse. The right seems against inclusion and the left seems to be doing over kill on helping everyone get to the table.

Hi A: I'm still going through your other msgs.

To return the favor, in pointing out the influence and contributions of Iroquois,
the co-author of the campus plans to replace govt welfare with sustainable education
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
said that the original concept of the college system came from Africans.

Is this true, can you research where he got that from?

He is African American, and I do credit him (Lenwood Johnson) and other "poor blacks" in a Democrat district for co-authoring these plans in collaboration with volunteers from Rice University (where I graduated) using the residential college system there as a model.

So if it is true that the university/college system came from Africans first, that would show it wasn't just the Europeans who contributed to this tradition of education and organization.

And also, this example of converting public housing into a sustainable campus to end the cycle of poverty and dependence on Govt came from a historic Black community.

The irony is that the founding of it was through Freed Slaves who were forced to build businesses and homes independent of any govt help because they were rejected and not considered citizens. And it wasn't until the govt was abused to take the land from the descendants and start controlling the resources that the history was destroyed and the residents could not get any help to save the historic community. Nobody wants to go against the corporate and political interests in cahoots with govt. Not Democrats Not Republicans. So these residents put together this SOLUTION to end welfare and nobody backs the plans. I posted them on Freedmen's Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing Our team is a mix of community members with the Green, Democrat, Republican parties but can't get help.

Maybe the Libertarians might be interested in stepping in and making this district their HQ?
It has a federal reserve building, erected over a former site of historic burials, so if the Black leaders want to unite to create a Federal Reserve system to pay back debts owed to taxpayers for damages to African American national history, and for abuses of govt authority on evictions and demolitions to censor these campus plans, this would be ideal.

I know the Egyptians had their schools where you had to study for 42 years to get your degree. Also west africa specifically Timbuktu has the oldest college still standing I believe. India had one at about the same time the Egyptians did as well. I'll look it up.

Edit...


After reading your post again I think you are talking about the public school system setup during reconstruction. This is from Wikki but its a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_Era#Public_schools

W. E. B. Du Bois argued that the freedmen had a deep commitment to education; African Americans in the Republican coalition played a critical role in establishing the principle of universal public education in state constitutions for the first time during congressional Reconstruction.[119] Some slaves had learned to read from white playmates or work colleagues before formal education was allowed by law; African Americans started "native schools" before the end of the war; Sabbath schools were another widespread means that freedmen developed to teach literacy.[120] When they gained suffrage, black politicians took this commitment to public education to state constitutional conventions.

African Americans and white Republicans joined to build education at the state level. They created a system of public schools, which were segregated by race everywhere except New Orleans. Generally, elementary and a few secondary schools were built in most cities, and occasionally in the countryside, but the South had few cities.

 

[emilynghiem]

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Now now fellas, settle down. Before someone has to call on the
Great Manito to descend from the heavens and rewrite your choice of vocabulary, or lack thereof.

The Constitution came from multiple sources, but equally part of "natural laws."
No need to get defensive or insult anyone for pointing out the multiple influences!

All governments are influenced by natural laws because they are formed by people in groups. Of course, we are going to coincide and co-influence each other.

Why the namecalling, is this part of tribal warfare?
Some "rites of passage" people go through when interacting online?

If so do we blame "Native Americans or Europeans" for this tradition?
Where does it end? ;-)

 

[Asclepias]

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Now now fellas, settle down. Before someone has to call on the
Great Manito to descend from the heavens and rewrite your choice of vocabulary, or lack thereof.

The Constitution came from multiple sources, but equally part of "natural laws."
No need to get defensive or insult anyone for pointing out the multiple influences!

All governments are influenced by natural laws because they are formed by people in groups. Of course, we are going to coincide and co-influence each other.

Why the namecalling, is this part of tribal warfare?
Some "rites of passage" people go through when interacting online?

If so do we blame "Native Americans or Europeans" for this tradition?
Where does it end? ;-)

Boys will be boys.

 

[Tank]

Brown people come to America, to live with white people

 

[Godboy]

Are you always this uninformed or just having a bad day?

Iroquois Confederacy is foundation of United States Constitution | FNX | First Nations Experience

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Your nonsense revisionist history doesn't sting. How ******* stupid are you? WE laugh at you, moron. You couldn't possibly be more clueless.

 

[Godboy]

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Now now fellas, settle down. Before someone has to call on the
Great Manito to descend from the heavens and rewrite your choice of vocabulary, or lack thereof.

The Constitution came from multiple sources, but equally part of "natural laws."
No need to get defensive or insult anyone for pointing out the multiple influences!

All governments are influenced by natural laws because they are formed by people in groups. Of course, we are going to coincide and co-influence each other.

Why the namecalling, is this part of tribal warfare?
Some "rites of passage" people go through when interacting online?

If so do we blame "Native Americans or Europeans" for this tradition?
Where does it end? ;-)

If you are confused about why I would call him a name, you clearly don't know the flaming racist known as Asclepias. This guy tries to give credit for EVERYTHING to anyone who isn't white. Its his thing. Hes a fool who constantly says foolish things.

 

[Asclepias]

Admiring indians and getting our consitution from them are totally different things you ******* moron. You are a stupid son of a *****!

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Your nonsense revisionist history doesn't sting. How ******* stupid are you? WE laugh at you, moron. You couldn't possibly be more clueless.

How can it be revisionist history if white people even say it happened? I know you feel embarrassed but dont be sore about it. Did you not read the link? You guys are stupid so you run around bumping into each other like retards.

 

[Asclepias]

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Now now fellas, settle down. Before someone has to call on the
Great Manito to descend from the heavens and rewrite your choice of vocabulary, or lack thereof.

The Constitution came from multiple sources, but equally part of "natural laws."
No need to get defensive or insult anyone for pointing out the multiple influences!

All governments are influenced by natural laws because they are formed by people in groups. Of course, we are going to coincide and co-influence each other.

Why the namecalling, is this part of tribal warfare?
Some "rites of passage" people go through when interacting online?

If so do we blame "Native Americans or Europeans" for this tradition?
Where does it end? ;-)

If you are confused about why I would call him a name, you clearly don't know the flaming racist known as Asclepias. This guy tries to give credit for EVERYTHING to anyone who isn't white. Its his thing. Hes a fool who constantly says foolish things.

No one is confused you called me a name because you stuck your foot in your mouth. Whats confusing is that this was something congress admitted to and you still dont believe it. What a retard! You dont have to believe me the proof is right here.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/100/hconres331/text

 

[Godboy]

That must have stung something fierce for you to lose it like that.

You retard. Where did I say they wrote the constitution for us?

Your nonsense revisionist history doesn't sting. How ******* stupid are you? WE laugh at you, moron. You couldn't possibly be more clueless.

How can it be revisionist history if white people even say it happened? I know you feel embarrassed but dont be sore about it. Did you not read the link? You guys are stupid so you run around bumping into each other like retards.

Im white. It didn't happen.

 

[Asclepias]

Your nonsense revisionist history doesn't sting. How ******* stupid are you? WE laugh at you, moron. You couldn't possibly be more clueless.

How can it be revisionist history if white people even say it happened? I know you feel embarrassed but dont be sore about it. Did you not read the link? You guys are stupid so you run around bumping into each other like retards.

Im white. It didn't happen.

Not trailer trash. White people in congress. You know...important people.