Life beyond Earth has finally been found; or so it seems

[jamesduncan]

Getting humans into outer space is not the problem. Humans have already walked on the moon. The problem with space travel is the vast distance between our solar system and the nearest one to us. The problem is in the speed needed to reach these far-off places in a reasonable time frame. The solution has been right in front of us.

Take for example someone at the front of a train traveling 100 MPH. If the person fires a bullet out ahead of the trail that is traveling at 300 MPH the speed of this bullet would clock at 400 MPH, not 300.

The same principle could be applied to space travel. The craft would have multiple propulsion engines. When the first one is fired it propels to craft to a speed of 1,000 MPH. When the second propulsion engine is fired (with the same propulsion force as the first), the craft is now traveling at a speed of 1,000+1,000 equaling a speed of 2,000 MPH.

If you continue firing these engines your speed increases with each engine burn. The ultimate speed you reach depends on how many propulsion bursts your engines can provide. Theoretically you could reach the speed of light and beyond.

Or so it seems -

 

[sealybobo]

The green is definitely a hopeful sign. The best part of this is that it's in our solar system and we can theoretically get to it.

Dione, Enceladus, Titan, Europa - Hopefully soon we can land something on those moons and take a good look.

We haven't even fully discovered every creature that's on our own planet so to me it's funny when people say there is no other life out there.

Researchers have identified a new species of orangutan in an isolated forest on the Indonesian island of Sumatra. Fewer than 800 individuals remain, and the construction of a dam and road threaten the prime habitat of the ape, which is distinguished from its cousins by, among other things, frizzier hair and a taste for caterpillars.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/new-great-ape-species-found-sparking-fears-its-survival

We just now discovered this new species? Wow! We don't know shit yet.

 

[Mac1958]

The green is definitely a hopeful sign. The best part of this is that it's in our solar system and we can theoretically get to it.

Dione, Enceladus, Titan, Europa - Hopefully soon we can land something on those moons and take a good look.

We haven't even fully discovered every creature that's on our own planet so to me it's funny when people say there is no other life out there.

Researchers have identified a new species of orangutan in an isolated forest on the Indonesian island of Sumatra. Fewer than 800 individuals remain, and the construction of a dam and road threaten the prime habitat of the ape, which is distinguished from its cousins by, among other things, frizzier hair and a taste for caterpillars.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/new-great-ape-species-found-sparking-fears-its-survival

We just now discovered this new species? Wow! We don't know shit yet.

Yep. I have no doubt it's out there, we just need to get to it. At least if it's in our solar system, we can literally touch it, theoretically.
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Getting humans into outer space is not the problem. Humans have already walked on the moon. The problem with space travel is the vast distance between our solar system and the nearest one to us. The problem is in the speed needed to reach these far-off places in a reasonable time frame. The solution has been right in front of us.

Take for example someone at the front of a train traveling 100 MPH. If the person fires a bullet out ahead of the trail that is traveling at 300 MPH the speed of this bullet would clock at 400 MPH, not 300.

The same principle could be applied to space travel. The craft would have multiple propulsion engines. When the first one is fired it propels to craft to a speed of 1,000 MPH. When the second propulsion engine is fired (with the same propulsion force as the first), the craft is now traveling at a speed of 1,000+1,000 equaling a speed of 2,000 MPH.

If you continue firing these engines your speed increases with each engine burn. The ultimate speed you reach depends on how many propulsion bursts your engines can provide. Theoretically you could reach the speed of light and beyond.

Or so it seems -

Unfortunately for that idea, the first engine would have to accelerate the many other engines, all filled with fuel. Breaking one engine into ten doesnt really solve the basic engineering problem.

 

[jamesduncan]

Unfortunately for that idea, the first engine would have to accelerate the many other engines, all filled with fuel. Breaking one engine into ten doesnt really solve the basic engineering problem.

You are most likely right but being one old stubborn man, I need a little clarification.

If you have a pistol and when fired the bullet from this pistol travels at 300 mph and you are standing at the head of a trail traveling at 100 mph the bullet’s speed will be clocked at 400 mph.

Is the true or not?

-

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Unfortunately for that idea, the first engine would have to accelerate the many other engines, all filled with fuel. Breaking one engine into ten doesnt really solve the basic engineering problem.

You are most likely right but being one old stubborn man, I need a little clarification.

If you have a pistol and when fired the bullet from this pistol travels at 300 mph and you are standing at the head of a trail traveling at 100 mph the bullet’s speed will be clocked at 400 mph.

Is the true or not?

-

True, but not relevant to what I said. See, you first have to accelerate all the rockets, each full of fuel, to the initial velocity. More weight requires more fuel, which itself adds more weight. It's the fundamental design problem of rockets, and it is why they are not very efficient.

 

[jamesduncan]

True, but not relevant to what I said. See, you first have to accelerate all the rockets, each full of fuel, to the initial velocity. More weight requires more fuel, which itself adds more weight. It's the fundamental design problem of rockets, and it is why they are not very efficient.

As you burn fuel you lose that weight & you drop each rocket when it burns all of its fuel making it even lighter. I think you are looking at this with gravity in mind. In outer space there is no gravity to impede the speed.

 

[Old Rocks]

First, there is a problem with your idea as you approach reletivistic speeds. Second, you have to boost all this fuel with the first rocket. Present rockets are not very efficient, and even with making the reusable, will still only serve for exploration, not colonization and commercialization of space.

But we are already developing technology for 'rockets' that will be far more efficient, and can be used once we get them to space. Not a rapid high G burn, but a steady push that will result in far higher speeds.

 

[WillMunny]

Complex life in other solar systems can be mathematically proven, based on extreme numbers and some very common facts we've learned about other solar systems in the past 20 years: in an observable universe of trillions of galaxies, with hundreds of billions of stars apiece....we know that most stars are small ones not that different from our sun (if dimmer and redder), we know as a proven fact that most stars have a system of planets. Including many rocky,. Earth-sized ones. And we know that water is one of the most common simple compounds in the universe. So of all these billions of rocky planets in our own Milky Way galaxy alone, obviously at least a few will have the right conditions for complex, multi-cellular life to form. And it will likely be carbon-based like Earth life simply because carbon is the element that does the best, easiest job at forming complex, organic chains of molecules with hydrogen and oxygen, to form proteins and DNA.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

True, but not relevant to what I said. See, you first have to accelerate all the rockets, each full of fuel, to the initial velocity. More weight requires more fuel, which itself adds more weight. It's the fundamental design problem of rockets, and it is why they are not very efficient.

As you burn fuel you lose that weight & you drop each rocket when it burns all of its fuel making it even lighter. I think you are looking at this with gravity in mind. In outer space there is no gravity to impede the speed.

The mass of the object which needs accelerated "impedes the speed", or more accurately, resists acceleration. That's inertia. You will still run into the same design problem. And, don't forget, you will have to also slow your rocket down. So you have to accelerate into travel that weighty system as well.

I not saying it's impossible, and I don't think it's a terrible idea, per se, but it's not very efficient, on a mass scale. Now, with some waystations, things become a little easier. Rockets, more viable.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Complex life in other solar systems can be mathematically proven, based on extreme numbers and some very common facts we've learned about other solar systems in the past 20 years: in an observable universe of trillions of galaxies, with hundreds of billions of stars apiece....we know that most stars are small ones not that different from our sun (if dimmer and redder), we know as a proven fact that most stars have a system of planets. Including many rocky,. Earth-sized ones. And we know that water is one of the most common simple compounds in the universe. So of all these billions of rocky planets in our own Milky Way galaxy alone, obviously at least a few will have the right conditions for complex, multi-cellular life to form. And it will likely be carbon-based like Earth life simply because carbon is the element that does the best, easiest job at forming complex, organic chains of molecules with hydrogen and oxygen, to form proteins and DNA.

Yes, all true. "Mathematically proven"? Kind of.

There's a non-zero chance you could safely cross a 6-lane interstate during rush hour blindfolded. So, you can't "mathematically prove" a person will get hit, should they attempt this. But it should be accepted that you almost certainly WILL get hit by a car, should you try this.

Likewise, we should understand that there almost certainly is, has been, and will be life in the galaxies we see in our skies.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I think it's great if we can confirm the existence of life in our solar system. What I'd most love to see, but I'm fairly certain I won't, is the discovery of sentient life with which we can communicate. I'd love to know what they have to say about the nature and (non-)existence of a supreme being. Did a Jesus-like figure walk their world and claim to be the Son of God? Do they have non-Christ-like figures who nonetheless speak of themselves as though they possess some attributes of a God, omniscience, for example? The point of wanting to know those things is to understand whether the Earthly human condition is indeed universal and has little to do with being human (Earthly human).

 

[usmbguest5318]

Now I laughed when the loonies tried to present this as some alien construct. However, what the scientists are now looking at are possibilities, and judging which would be the most likely target for future exploration. If Musk is successful with his BFR, then this could happen within my lifetime.

I'd hate to bust your space bubble, but Mr. Musk isn't going to Mars.

Neither he nor any consortium of private investors will be able to raise the Trillions of dollars such an effort would require.

And nations won't do it for the foreseeable future.

My grandfather was 20 years old when the Wright Bros. flew at Kitty Hawk. He watched the Eagle set down on the moon. Sputnik was launched in 1957, the Eagle landed in 1969.

...And yet for all those momentous achievements and discoveries, humans are little different now than we have been for millennia. I don't know what you think about that, but looking at it in a "big picture" way, I find it somewhat disconcerting. The fact that what we can come to know so much more about ourselves and the world in which we live can change so much and we remain much the same suggests to me that we really aren't any manifoldly better as beings than are other lifeforms that we deem lesser than ourselves.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think it's great if we can confirm the existence of life in our solar system. What I'd most love to see, but I'm fairly certain I won't, is the discovery of sentient life with which we can communicate. I'd love to know what they have to say about the nature and (non-)existence of a supreme being. Did a Jesus-like figure walk their world and claim to be the Son of God? Do they have non-Christ-like figures who nonetheless speak of themselves as though they possess some attributes of a God, omniscience, for example? The point of wanting to know those things is to understand whether the Earthly human condition is indeed universal and has little to do with being human (Earthly human).

Now I laughed when the loonies tried to present this as some alien construct. However, what the scientists are now looking at are possibilities, and judging which would be the most likely target for future exploration. If Musk is successful with his BFR, then this could happen within my lifetime.

I'd hate to bust your space bubble, but Mr. Musk isn't going to Mars.

Neither he nor any consortium of private investors will be able to raise the Trillions of dollars such an effort would require.

And nations won't do it for the foreseeable future.

My grandfather was 20 years old when the Wright Bros. flew at Kitty Hawk. He watched the Eagle set down on the moon. Sputnik was launched in 1957, the Eagle landed in 1969.

...And yet for all those momentous achievements and discoveries, humans are little different now than we have been for millennia. I don't know what you think about that, but looking at it in a "big picture" way, I find it somewhat disconcerting. The fact that what we can come to know so much more about ourselves and the world in which we live can change so much and we remain much the same suggests to me that we really aren't any manifoldly better as beings than are other lifeforms that we deem lesser than ourselves.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly and is better overall than it has ever been in the history of the planet. Yes, I know, not for everyone. But you arent going to find many countries in the history books with 70+ year life expectancy from 200 years ago, much less 2000 years ago.

And it's important to remember that our genetics have not changed much since we were hunter/gatherers. A newborn baby is still a baby human animal and would fit in as well in the year 6000 BCE as he does now.

See? We've come a long way. And what I think is important to note is that we have built our science and knowledge to the point that we have discovered the moral truths that would bode well for our race and our planet . Now, implementing them is a different story. But, at least we know them now, which is light years ahead of what we knew just 500 years ago. And we've been around a lot longer than that.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I think it's great if we can confirm the existence of life in our solar system. What I'd most love to see, but I'm fairly certain I won't, is the discovery of sentient life with which we can communicate. I'd love to know what they have to say about the nature and (non-)existence of a supreme being. Did a Jesus-like figure walk their world and claim to be the Son of God? Do they have non-Christ-like figures who nonetheless speak of themselves as though they possess some attributes of a God, omniscience, for example? The point of wanting to know those things is to understand whether the Earthly human condition is indeed universal and has little to do with being human (Earthly human).

Now I laughed when the loonies tried to present this as some alien construct. However, what the scientists are now looking at are possibilities, and judging which would be the most likely target for future exploration. If Musk is successful with his BFR, then this could happen within my lifetime.

I'd hate to bust your space bubble, but Mr. Musk isn't going to Mars.

Neither he nor any consortium of private investors will be able to raise the Trillions of dollars such an effort would require.

And nations won't do it for the foreseeable future.

My grandfather was 20 years old when the Wright Bros. flew at Kitty Hawk. He watched the Eagle set down on the moon. Sputnik was launched in 1957, the Eagle landed in 1969.

...And yet for all those momentous achievements and discoveries, humans are little different now than we have been for millennia. I don't know what you think about that, but looking at it in a "big picture" way, I find it somewhat disconcerting. The fact that what we can come to know so much more about ourselves and the world in which we live can change so much and we remain much the same suggests to me that we really aren't any manifoldly better as beings than are other lifeforms that we deem lesser than ourselves.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly and is better overall than it has ever been in the history of the planet. Yes, I know, not for everyone. But you arent going to find many countries in the history books with 70+ year life expectancy from 200 years ago, much less 2000 years ago.

And it's important to remember that our genetics have not changed much since we were hunter/gatherers. A newborn baby is still a baby human animal and would fit in as well in the year 6000 BCE as he does now.

See? We've come a long way. And what I think is important to note is that we have built our science and knowledge to the point that we have discovered the moral truths that would bode well for our race and our planet . Now, implementing them is a different story. But, at least we know them now, which is light years ahead of what we knew just 500 years ago. And we've been around a lot longer than that.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly

I guess I was inadequately clear. "The human condition" is the term I used to refer to the nature of what it means to be human...how we behave, how we perceive ourselves and others, how we relate to our world and the creatures and objects in it. I didn't mean the condition in which humans live. Sorry for not being clearer.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We'll find coral and jellyfish on those moons because they got there the same way they got to Earth: hitching a ride

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think it's great if we can confirm the existence of life in our solar system. What I'd most love to see, but I'm fairly certain I won't, is the discovery of sentient life with which we can communicate. I'd love to know what they have to say about the nature and (non-)existence of a supreme being. Did a Jesus-like figure walk their world and claim to be the Son of God? Do they have non-Christ-like figures who nonetheless speak of themselves as though they possess some attributes of a God, omniscience, for example? The point of wanting to know those things is to understand whether the Earthly human condition is indeed universal and has little to do with being human (Earthly human).

Now I laughed when the loonies tried to present this as some alien construct. However, what the scientists are now looking at are possibilities, and judging which would be the most likely target for future exploration. If Musk is successful with his BFR, then this could happen within my lifetime.

I'd hate to bust your space bubble, but Mr. Musk isn't going to Mars.

Neither he nor any consortium of private investors will be able to raise the Trillions of dollars such an effort would require.

And nations won't do it for the foreseeable future.

My grandfather was 20 years old when the Wright Bros. flew at Kitty Hawk. He watched the Eagle set down on the moon. Sputnik was launched in 1957, the Eagle landed in 1969.

...And yet for all those momentous achievements and discoveries, humans are little different now than we have been for millennia. I don't know what you think about that, but looking at it in a "big picture" way, I find it somewhat disconcerting. The fact that what we can come to know so much more about ourselves and the world in which we live can change so much and we remain much the same suggests to me that we really aren't any manifoldly better as beings than are other lifeforms that we deem lesser than ourselves.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly and is better overall than it has ever been in the history of the planet. Yes, I know, not for everyone. But you arent going to find many countries in the history books with 70+ year life expectancy from 200 years ago, much less 2000 years ago.

And it's important to remember that our genetics have not changed much since we were hunter/gatherers. A newborn baby is still a baby human animal and would fit in as well in the year 6000 BCE as he does now.

See? We've come a long way. And what I think is important to note is that we have built our science and knowledge to the point that we have discovered the moral truths that would bode well for our race and our planet . Now, implementing them is a different story. But, at least we know them now, which is light years ahead of what we knew just 500 years ago. And we've been around a lot longer than that.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly

I guess I was inadequately clear. "The human condition" is the term I used to refer to the nature of what it means to be human...how we behave, how we perceive ourselves and others, how we relate to our world and the creatures and objects in it. I didn't mean the condition in which humans live. Sorry for not being clearer.

Well, that speaks right to our brains. We haven't had a lot of time to alter our genetics, and thus our brains.

 

[ChrisL]

I think it's great if we can confirm the existence of life in our solar system. What I'd most love to see, but I'm fairly certain I won't, is the discovery of sentient life with which we can communicate. I'd love to know what they have to say about the nature and (non-)existence of a supreme being. Did a Jesus-like figure walk their world and claim to be the Son of God? Do they have non-Christ-like figures who nonetheless speak of themselves as though they possess some attributes of a God, omniscience, for example? The point of wanting to know those things is to understand whether the Earthly human condition is indeed universal and has little to do with being human (Earthly human).

Now I laughed when the loonies tried to present this as some alien construct. However, what the scientists are now looking at are possibilities, and judging which would be the most likely target for future exploration. If Musk is successful with his BFR, then this could happen within my lifetime.

I'd hate to bust your space bubble, but Mr. Musk isn't going to Mars.

Neither he nor any consortium of private investors will be able to raise the Trillions of dollars such an effort would require.

And nations won't do it for the foreseeable future.

My grandfather was 20 years old when the Wright Bros. flew at Kitty Hawk. He watched the Eagle set down on the moon. Sputnik was launched in 1957, the Eagle landed in 1969.

...And yet for all those momentous achievements and discoveries, humans are little different now than we have been for millennia. I don't know what you think about that, but looking at it in a "big picture" way, I find it somewhat disconcerting. The fact that what we can come to know so much more about ourselves and the world in which we live can change so much and we remain much the same suggests to me that we really aren't any manifoldly better as beings than are other lifeforms that we deem lesser than ourselves.

Now, hold on a second. The human condition has improved vastly and is better overall than it has ever been in the history of the planet. Yes, I know, not for everyone. But you arent going to find many countries in the history books with 70+ year life expectancy from 200 years ago, much less 2000 years ago.

And it's important to remember that our genetics have not changed much since we were hunter/gatherers. A newborn baby is still a baby human animal and would fit in as well in the year 6000 BCE as he does now.

See? We've come a long way. And what I think is important to note is that we have built our science and knowledge to the point that we have discovered the moral truths that would bode well for our race and our planet . Now, implementing them is a different story. But, at least we know them now, which is light years ahead of what we knew just 500 years ago. And we've been around a lot longer than that.

Is that better or worse though? Maybe we weren't meant to live so long. I don't know how I feel about keeping people alive that would otherwise be dead using things like meds and machines. Your quality of life most certainly declines at least in your old age, and some people live in constant pain and agony. Now, if they could find a way to keep your body youthful, that would be something.

 

[ChrisL]

Unless it is a planet that is EXACTLY like Earth and has undergone the exact same circumstances which were present to lead to the evolution of the human being, I doubt that there would be any life forms on other planets that would be human like unless the above conditions were met.

 

[WillMunny]

Complex life in other solar systems can be mathematically proven, based on extreme numbers and some very common facts we've learned about other solar systems in the past 20 years: in an observable universe of trillions of galaxies, with hundreds of billions of stars apiece....we know that most stars are small ones not that different from our sun (if dimmer and redder), we know as a proven fact that most stars have a system of planets. Including many rocky,. Earth-sized ones. And we know that water is one of the most common simple compounds in the universe. So of all these billions of rocky planets in our own Milky Way galaxy alone, obviously at least a few will have the right conditions for complex, multi-cellular life to form. And it will likely be carbon-based like Earth life simply because carbon is the element that does the best, easiest job at forming complex, organic chains of molecules with hydrogen and oxygen, to form proteins and DNA.

Yes, all true. "Mathematically proven"? Kind of.

There's a non-zero chance you could safely cross a 6-lane interstate during rush hour blindfolded. So, you can't "mathematically prove" a person will get hit, should they attempt this. But it should be accepted that you almost certainly WILL get hit by a car, should you try this.

Likewise, we should understand that there almost certainly is, has been, and will be life in the galaxies we see in our skies.

I know it's currently impossible to travel to or deeply study exo-Earths because today's technology is too primitive. My point was that since we know for a fact that giant numbers of rocky planets exist, at least a few of them must have the right conditions to form complex chains of carbon compounds. Science is universal so if it happened on Earth it happened elsewhere too, whether it's rare or common on this type of planet, it has happened elsewhere.