Liberty Dollar Creators Arrested

[Oddball]

Store coupons are also legal tender, for the items specified on those coupons.

If you want to exchange a couple hours of your day working for 50 $1.00-off coupons for Preparation H, that's your business.

As I pointed out in my first post on this topic, this isn't the first time the feds have come after Bernie von Nothaus. ....They're following the old model of trying to sue him out of business.

 

[Againsheila]

What is this thread about?

Sounds like some criminals were creating counterfeit money and encouraging people to use it. They should go to jail.

End of discussion. Next.

Well it's not the end of the discussion, because they're not criminals. It also wasn't counterfeit money. It was a distinctly different currency from that which the federal government forces us to use, and it had real value as opposed to the worthless government-backed green paper and tin coins.

Only the Federal Government is allowed to coin and make LEGAL tender. You may want to READ the Constitution. States can not even make paper money.

History lesson time...long after the constitution was signed, Banks were each making their OWN money....the federal reserve (which is illegal by our constitutional standards and has NOTHING to do with the FEDERAL government) took that right away from individual banks.

 

[Paulie]

A power given to the Congress by the US Constitution.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

LII: Constitution

Private money is not LEGAL tender and is nothing more then a novelty worth no more than the value of the metal in the coins. Paper money is worth nothing unless one has a legal document establishing that the paper is worth some amount and backed by US money.

Let's see what some various government and court officials have said about Liberty Dollar in the past...

http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/libertybucks.pdf

The first rumbling of discord was sounded last August when a cautionary press release circulated from
the press office of the Washington Credit Union League (WCUL). Describing purveyors of ALC as
"con artists preying on people’s fears about Y2K," the consortium of credit unions substantiated this
inflammatory contention by citing Secret Service Agent Joan Reilly, who warned consumers that
NORFED "appears to be in violation of Title 18, Section 514 of the United States Code." Although this
official pronouncement sounds troubling, a cursory examination of this statutory law throws this
statement into doubt. The measure, which went into effect in January 1998, prohibits the production or
distribution of any document professing to be "an actual security or other financial instrument issued
under the authority of the United States." As NORFED has never claimed to be operating under the
aegis of the federal government, the statute seems both misapplied and incongruous. This issue was
addressed last June by Hawaii attorney Paul J. Sulla Jr., who analyzed the legality of this new form of
cash at NORFED’s request. "I find that the Patriot (ALC) is not in violation of any counterfeiting or
similitude statutes of the United States," Sulla concluded in a lengthy legal opinion later published in
Media Bypass.
"It's not counterfeit money," concurs Ron Legan, Special Agent in Charge (SAC) of the Seattle,
Wash., Secret Service field office. Having investigated this regulatory matter closely, he concludes that
the silver certificates are well within the highly restrictive boundaries of American monetary
guidelines. "We determined there wasn’t a federal currency violation," he explains.

http://http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/sobeit.pdf

"If these (NORFED) people want to issue their own money, so be it. It will be interesting to see what
the public thinks," Rolnick (director of research at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis) said.

http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/y2klooming.pdf

Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for the U.S. Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing,
said American Liberty Currency is legitimate.
"There's nothing illegal about this," Dickens said after the Treasury Department's legal team reviewed
the currency. "As long as it doesn't say legal tender there's nothing wrong with it.'

So let's recap..

We have a secret service agent, a Federal Reserve employee, and a US Treasury spokeswoman all stating that there's nothing illegal about Liberty Dollar.

What seems to be the problem RGS?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

OH I think one can try to create one's own currency.

What we cannot do is imply that that currency is in any way backed up by the government.

And, if you read the advertisments for Liberty the language they used sort of implied that it was on the same par (in terms of being legitimate currency of the land) as Federal script.

I STILL don't understand why they made that mistake unless their plan was to print up script without any real backing.

The link I provided earlier made it clear that people were free to accept or refuse the liberty dollar, which means that it is not on par with a Federal Reserve note whatsoever.

 

[Paulie]

The bottom line is the currency can not state "legal tender for all debts".

Otherwise, monopoly money and any other kind of play money could be construed as illegal counterfeiting because if some section of society decided to use that as their medium of exchange, how would it be considered any different than Liberty Dollar at that point?

This whole matter is so ridiculous. How is it not obvious that the government shut down something that became a financial threat? If it was considered legal 8 years ago by the Treasury, then what changed NOW?

Here's what changed...it became a financial threat, nothing more. It proved to be legitimate competition for the USD. I'd at least be able to have SOME kind of respect for the government if they would just man up and admit it, and stop hiding behind the bullshit that it's breaking any laws. They ruined it for themselves by previously saying it DIDN'T break any laws.

 

[Againsheila]

The bottom line is the currency can not state "legal tender for all debts".

Otherwise, monopoly money and any other kind of play money could be construed as illegal counterfeiting because if some section of society decided to use that as their medium of exchange, how would it be considered any different than Liberty Dollar at that point?

This whole matter is so ridiculous. How is it not obvious that the government shut down something that became a financial threat? If it was considered legal 8 years ago by the Treasury, then what changed NOW?

Here's what changed...it became a financial threat, nothing more. It proved to be legitimate competition for the USD. I'd at least be able to have SOME kind of respect for the government if they would just man up and admit it, and stop hiding behind the bullshit that it's breaking any laws. They ruined it for themselves by previously saying it DIDN'T break any laws.

I agree....the liberty money was a lot better than our money, our money isn't backed by anything anymore and it's only a matter of time before the dollar completely collapses

 

[Oddball]

Here's what changed...it became a financial threat, nothing more. It proved to be legitimate competition for the USD. I'd at least be able to have SOME kind of respect for the government if they would just man up and admit it, and stop hiding behind the bullshit that it's breaking any laws. They ruined it for themselves by previously saying it DIDN'T break any laws.

This is what makes it pretty clear to me that the feds are merely trying to sue von Nothaus out of business.

After all, it costs nothing for gubmint prosecutors to initiate endless spurious and specious charges, but it costs the defendant mucho buckaroos.

 

[Paulie]

Here's what changed...it became a financial threat, nothing more. It proved to be legitimate competition for the USD. I'd at least be able to have SOME kind of respect for the government if they would just man up and admit it, and stop hiding behind the bullshit that it's breaking any laws. They ruined it for themselves by previously saying it DIDN'T break any laws.

This is what makes it pretty clear to me that the feds are merely trying to sue von Nothaus out of business.

After all, it costs nothing for gubmint prosecutors to initiate endless spurious and specious charges, but it costs the defendant mucho buckaroos.

Exactly.

Although, I'd tend to think Von Nauthaus might have a pretty good defense, considering some of the quotes he can provide from credible government sources previously stating that LD was totally legal.

When the US Treasury spokeswoman comes out and says it's legal, I think that pretty much kills the government's chances of winning the lawsuit. No?

 

[Oddball]

Pretty much.

 

[Paulie]

Pretty much.

Well, at least in the world of real logic, anyway. In THIS world though, where logic and facts don't seem to matter much, Von Nauthaus is toast.

If anything, maybe my silver liberty dollar coins will increase in value.