Liberals vs Progressives

[Votto]

How can you disagree? We're saying the same thing.

The goal of liberals was never diversity, it was never to champion freedom, even though that is what they pretended to be in the begninning.

In other words, liberals never really existed.

 

[YoursTruly]

We thought they switched party's?

I think this was an issue where republicans and liberals could come together. Clinton got very little opposition to his immigration ideas, from either party.

With the new progressive, even when Trump did things that progressives supported (bump stock ban, funding planned parenthood, supporting a much larger Covid relief check), progressives still bashed Trump. There's no winning with these progressives. I almost feel sorry for Pelosi. She knew there was no way to impeach Trump and have the support of the Senate. On either occasion. IMO, she was forced into those witch hunts by progressives who would've slandered her had she not made the attempt.

 

[BlindBoo]

IMO, as someone who supports more of the LP's platform than any other, believes that the majority of the libertarian voters/supporters have lost their ever lovin mind. There are too many of them siding with the progressives BS. Especially on transgender rights, and ending the war on drugs (that's never really be fought).
1. Like progressives, they over look the fact that transwomen are stepping on the rights of biological ones. Especially when it comes to sports. They got this stupid idea that we should all accept all this "force" transgenders are pushing on people who don't want to be pushed. Especially by the government.
2. Also like Progressives, they simply don't care about all the innocent victims that drug users and dealers create. They can't see that drugs like meth, heroin & fentanyl are one of the main contributing factors in homelessness, violent crime and OD's. They try (and succeed too many times) in making martyrs out of violent druggies.
A true libertarian ideology about about druggies, is personal responsibility. But when the violent druggy commits an act of violence, while high (or trying to get the money to get high), they blame the system. They blame the war on drugs. They blame anything and everything they can, except for the violent druggy.

It seems, except for the monetary views of the LP, libertarians are socially aligned with the progressive's.

IMO, Catos' work has nothing to do with the Libertarian Party.

Personally I don't think men should compete with women for scholarship money or any high level contact sport. Only in mixed leagues.

Recreational drugs of all kinds should be legally available for all adults to enjoy responsibly. Act of violence and property theft while on drugs should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Votto]

I think this was an issue where republicans and liberals could come together. Clinton got very little opposition to his immigration ideas, from either party.

With the new progressive, even when Trump did things that progressives supported (bump stock ban, funding planned parenthood, supporting a much larger Covid relief check), progressives still bashed Trump. There's no winning with these progressives. I almost feel sorry for Pelosi. She knew there was no way to impeach Trump and have the support of the Senate. On either occasion. IMO, she was forced into those witch hunts by progressives who would've slandered her had she not made the attempt.

Feel sorry for Pelosi?

Not I.

How can you feel sorry for such an evil winch?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I think this was an issue where republicans and liberals could come together. Clinton got very little opposition to his immigration ideas, from either party.

With the new progressive, even when Trump did things that progressives supported (bump stock ban, funding planned parenthood, supporting a much larger Covid relief check), progressives still bashed Trump. There's no winning with these progressives. I almost feel sorry for Pelosi. She knew there was no way to impeach Trump and have the support of the Senate. On either occasion. IMO, she was forced into those witch hunts by progressives who would've slandered her had she not made the attempt.

Yeah while she was impeaching Trump Covid got out of hand, she became one dumb bitch

 

[Votto]

Yeah while she was impeaching Trump Covid got out of hand, she became one dumb bitch

Notice how democrats rule and reign with an iron fist with people who are either suffering from dementia or just flat out stupid and vacuus like AOC but still keep getting elected anyway?

I think it is intentional. The message being sent is that the man behind the curtain is what is so powerful, so resistance is futile.

 

[bendog]

This reminds me of Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. Total complete opposites politicall, but came together and at least attempted to balance the budget.
Ever since then, the budget get's more and more out of whack. The deficit grows and grows. The Fed has to continuously over inflate the US dollar value. And now it's to the point that $10hr is a poverty wage.
But they, just keep kicking the can down the road.
The progressive don't even talk about the deficit, the spending or anything else along those lines. Just spend spend spend. And the CINO's are right along with them, as long as there's a republican in the white house. CINO's only address spending when there's a democrat president.

Yeah, WJC is probably a good example. He was ideologically to the left of where he governed, but he was that way in Ark too. And he and Hillary did improve people's lives there.

I thought Obama was more or less an elitist. The faux conservatives like to get wrapped up in the Marxist, Kenyan, Socialist, Muslim thing ... but he was raised by a white female banker in Hawaii. That ain't Huey Newton territory. LOL We haven't had bipartisanship since he was elected.

jmo but the JFK/Goldwater comparison is similar. JFK was "the" classical liberal, and Goldwater was the the first actual conservative anti-FDR to come along after WWII. Ike was a great man, but he was not big on ideology. Nixon was a pragmatist ... a paranoid one at that ... which is sort of bipolar. LOL But the point is JFK and Goldwater respected each other, and were more or less friends.

 

[YoursTruly]

Yeah, WJC is probably a good example. He was ideologically to the left of where he governed, but he was that way in Ark too. And he and Hillary did improve people's lives there.

I thought Obama was more or less an elitist. The faux conservatives like to get wrapped up in the Marxist, Kenyan, Socialist, Muslim thing ... but he was raised by a white female banker in Hawaii. That ain't Huey Newton territory. LOL We haven't had bipartisanship since he was elected.

jmo but the JFK/Goldwater comparison is similar. JFK was "the" classical liberal, and Goldwater was the the first actual conservative anti-FDR to come along after WWII. Ike was a great man, but he was not big on ideology. Nixon was a pragmatist ... a paranoid one at that ... which is sort of bipolar. LOL But the point is JFK and Goldwater respected each other, and were more or less friends.

VERY good post. Preach it, brother.

 

[YoursTruly]

I just stumbled on this "I miss the old liberals."


A line from the article: "Voltaire maxim “I may violently disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

 

[bendog]

I just stumbled on this "I miss the old liberals."


A line from the article: "Voltaire maxim “I may violently disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

yeah, that's long gone. But we are in a societal change. People without aptitude for information and technology are at a disadvantage. And a new century.

I'm told that kids in the pre-30 set are less ideological ... or more apt to see greys, what with blended families and uncertain jobs.

 

[YoursTruly]

IMO, Catos' work has nothing to do with the Libertarian Party.

Agreed

Personally I don't think men should compete with women for scholarship money or any high level contact sport. Only in mixed leagues.

Also agreed. Question is, how far will this go? The trans that Biden selected, how many better qualified people were over looked, just so Biden could select a trans?

Recreational drugs of all kinds should be legally available for all adults to enjoy responsibly. Act of violence and property theft while on drugs should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I still somewhat agree with that. I know some folks who ONLY drink or smoke pot at home. And I'm glad there's no law against doing such things. And I know some people who hire meth users, because when they're high, they're completely focused on their work.
But when you look at places that have decriminalized hard drugs, the crime rates in those area's have skyrocketed. Theft and violent crimes both. If you're hooked on something like meth or heroin/fentanyl, chances are, you can't keep a job. If you can't keep a job, you can't keep a steady income to support your habit. Without that, when you run out of friends and family, you're on the streets, commiting crimes to get money for your addiction.

It's all mentioned in this thread. For the record, I used to support decriminalizing all drugs. But after becoming a small business owner, and this problem affecting my business as much as it did, then looking at it from the LEO's perspective with the added dangers it poses to them and the general public, I changed by mind.
The video in this link only solidified by new beliefs.

 

[YoursTruly]

yeah, that's long gone. But we are in a societal change. People without aptitude for information and technology are at a disadvantage. And a new century.

I'm told that kids in the pre-30 set are less ideological ... or more apt to see greys, what with blended families and uncertain jobs.

I think that those of Gen X and boomers get the feeling that there's too many things being micromanaged. Things that we'd normally just dismiss as someone else's business.
Like some speaker on a college campus. If we knew the speaker and disagreed with him/her, we just wouldn't attend. But now, speakers from all perspectives are being protested to the point that they can't even complete what they were paid to do.
There's 4 good people testifying here.

 

[YoursTruly]

Racist progressives in action:


Where's the liberals to defend this man? They're being told to either join us, or we'll destroy you too.

 

[YoursTruly]

Remember when Saturday Night Live was liberal and funny? Now it's progressive and boring.

 

[Pellinore]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to learn the HUGE differences between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa. But not much anymore. Since the MSM fails to make note of the difference, the two get lumped into the same column. Just like they do conservatives. I can't tell you how many times I've heard hannity or maddow call McConnell a conservative.
I have the general idea about their difference of liberal and progressive. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whacko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision based on their own way of thinking. And not how they're supposed to think. Whereas progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.

Having studies a lot of American history and political science, here are the best definitions I have heard:

The core of our ideological split is between liberal and conservative views, even if we didn't always call them that. Describing someone as liberal simply means that they prefer to make changes to society in order to fix social problems; for example, if a factory is dumping its waste into the river, a liberal view would be to require the company to limit its pollution, or close. By contrast, a conservative prefers to resist excessive changes to society in the name of issues that they consider to be less harmful than the change would be; so, in the same instance, a conservative might argue that the pollution would be less harmful to their town than the potential inflation, loss of service, or unemployment brought by regulation on the factory.

The term "Progressive" originally meant those from around the early 20th century who focused on limiting or regulating runaway big industry on order to move our society from an agricultural base to a fair and functional industrial one. Over time, its use more or less merged with 'liberal,' but by now it is largely used to mean the extreme left. There are a gajillion different ways to define 'left wing' and 'right wing' as well, but in practice they mostly line up with liberal and conservative. None of this correlates in a straight line to Democrats and Republicans, though, which are political parties and not ideologies at all.

I think there is truth in what you say about how the voices of liberals and conservatives—if we define them as the non-extreme center-left and center-right—are being drowned out by shouts from the fringes. It's a genuinely disturbing trend that makes me think we are heading for a Great Depression or Civil War-level catastrophe at best, if we don't change course. From my perspective, though, the demands of the so-called "Progressive" American far left are far from the extreme; there are no calls for nationalization of multiple industries, there is no potential autocrat challenging the law, and their greatest champion has just gotten convincingly smacked down for two Primary seasons in a row. On the other hand, the extreme has a stranglehold on the right; center-right conservatives such as Liz Cheney are getting whipped out of the party, and the next two elections at least are shaping up to be contests to see who can be the most Trumpian of them all.

What all of that tells me is that the reason you don't see liberals rejecting progressives with the same vitriol that you see remaining conservatives reject Trumpism is because the far left simply isn't the existential threat to our democracy that the far right is. Whether it's through instinct or experience or book knowledge, I get the sense that most people (far left, center left, midfield, and center right alike) just know how much of a danger the far right is these days, not only to their own ideologies and way of life, but to the entire American system, so they crank it up in response.

 

[YoursTruly]

What all of that tells me is that the reason you don't see liberals rejecting progressives with the same vitriol that you see remaining conservatives reject Trumpism is because the far left simply isn't the existential threat to our democracy that the far right is. Whether it's through instinct or experience or book knowledge, I get the sense that most people (far left, center left, midfield, and center right alike) just know how much of a danger the far right is these days, not only to their own ideologies and way of life, but to the entire American system, so they crank it up in response.

Dude, the "far right" is about as dangerous as a gerbil. For the life of me, I hear all the scare tactics the progressives use against the GOP. But I just don't see it.
One of the reasons us conservative don't care for Trump, is because too many of the things he's done is just too progressive for us.
Again, bump stock bans, trade war with China, funding planned parenthood.

 

[YoursTruly]

This is a good read.

I Miss the Old Liberals.

Call me a sentimental old fool but I miss the days when liberals were liberal. When I was a kid growing up in the 1980’s the liberals believed in freedom of speech. They really did. In the 1980’s “artist” Robert Mapplethorpe dipped a cross in a vat of urine, snapped a picture, and called it art. The liberals rushed to his defense claiming that all speech is valuable, and beyond criticism. Indeed just denouncing Mapplethorpe was considered by liberals to be intolerant and rude.


The liberals back then believed in the Voltaire maxim “I may violently disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” They even went one step further, instead of simply defending his right to display it, they advocated that........

 

[Likkmee]

Being an actual conservative, it didn't take me very long to learn the HUGE differences between conservatives & republicans.
Back when I called myself a democrat, "progressives" weren't really a thing. In fact, I don't really member any democrat politician calling themselves a progressive.
But to day, they're everywhere.
On political forums like this, the two get confused. Say something about a liberal, and someone else will correct you and say it's a progressive. Or visa versa. But not much anymore. Since the MSM fails to make note of the difference, the two get lumped into the same column. Just like they do conservatives. I can't tell you how many times I've heard hannity or maddow call McConnell a conservative.
I have the general idea about their difference of liberal and progressive. My problem is, liberals just don't do much to disassociate themselves with the whacko thinking of the progressives.
Where as true conservatives will tell you flat out, they wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire.

Maybe the liberals are a dying breed, much like conservatives. Maybe the progressives are pushing them out. It seems that when the DNC get's a decent liberal candidate, he/she get's thrown under the bus because he/she doesn't align themselves with the new progressive way of thinking. Obama may have been the last liberal to be elected president.
That is, unless the liberal voters stand up to this new age BS. Young liberals aren't bad. You can talk to them. Like us true conservatives, they listen to all the information, and make a decision based on their own way of thinking. And not how they're supposed to think. Whereas progressive will believe even facebook headlines and share that propaganda 1 million times, before someone points out to them that it's not true.

If there's any actual liberals on this forum, I'd like to hear from you and your idea's about this new progressive BS that's being force into your party.

It's OK to stand up and be heard. I didn't when I left the GOP because I was a conservative and realized there was no room in the GOP for actual conservatism.