Divine Wind
Platinum Member
I think she's being sarcastic to all the whiners.
Let's Talk.........I mean REALLY Talk.......
- Thread starter Dale Smith
- Start date
ChrisL
Diamond Member
The American middle class is deteriorating, OBVIOUSLY.
How American businessmen are ruining American business — and the U.S. economy
The missing link in the anemic, five-year-old recovery has been business investment. And big business itself deserves a lot of the blame for that. Instead of using record profits to buy new equipment or build factories — and boost the economy — corporate America has been sitting on nearly $2 trillion in cash. Corporate balance sheets are stuffed.
When CEOs do put money to work, it's almost always to help shareholders, through higher dividends and stock buy-backs that boost share prices. More recently, companies have been using some of that dough for a tricky financial technique known as an "inversion," buying an overseas rival to take advantage of lower international tax rates. Never have companies spent such a tiny share of the cash they generate on capital investment, according to economist Andrew Smithers.
Even worse, argues Harvard's Clayton Christensen in a recent paper, much of that investment is directed toward making existing products or delivering existing services more efficiently — often with fewer workers — rather than innovating new products or services that create new, high-paying jobs. This plague of risk-averse "short-termism," as Nobel-winning economist Edmund Phelps writes in Mass Flourishing, reduces the total "supply of innovation" in the U.S. economy, resulting in slower growth and job creation.
On the surface, of course, none of this behavior makes much sense. Why would smart businessmen act so myopically? With coffers full and borrowing easy thanks to low interest rates, why wouldn't a company spend big to either expand today or invest in long-term projects with a large potential payoff tomorrow?
First, executives pay has become more dependent on bonuses, often linked to a company's stock prices — rather than salaries. At the same time, CEO tenure has declined since 2000. So bosses have big incentive to embrace short-term strategies — like buy-backs — that keep the stock price high and avoid those — like, say, a pricey new research initiative — which might make it tougher to hit those all-important quarterly earnings targets. As a result, Smithers writes in The Road to Recovery, "managements are willing to accept possible long-run damage from lower investment and the possible loss of market share." That's the next CEO's problem.
Second, executives have been slow adjust to a world where capital and cash are abundant. No longer, Christensen explains, do they have to worry about squeezing every bit of revenue and profit out of each dollar deployed ASAP. But that's the strategy they were taught in business school decades ago, so they keep right on doing it.
Third, investors, even those supposedly in it for the long run, like pension funds, aren't doing their job. They're not nudging management to lift their heads and look to the horizon. Instead, shareholders threaten to dump a company's stock if they miss those earnings targets, which Phelps compares to paying ransom to kidnappers.
Dealing with short-termism may be a long-term project. Executive pay will need to sync more closely with what's good for the overall economy, such as being linked to increased investment. Some research suggests limiting or eliminating "golden parachute" paydays for departing CEOs. Business school curricula will have to change. And Phelps says fund managers shouldn't be allowed to threaten company officials with financial damage if they miss earning targets.
And hey, maybe if business starts thinking more about the long term, maybe government will, too.
How American businessmen are ruining American business — and the U.S. economy
The missing link in the anemic, five-year-old recovery has been business investment. And big business itself deserves a lot of the blame for that. Instead of using record profits to buy new equipment or build factories — and boost the economy — corporate America has been sitting on nearly $2 trillion in cash. Corporate balance sheets are stuffed.
When CEOs do put money to work, it's almost always to help shareholders, through higher dividends and stock buy-backs that boost share prices. More recently, companies have been using some of that dough for a tricky financial technique known as an "inversion," buying an overseas rival to take advantage of lower international tax rates. Never have companies spent such a tiny share of the cash they generate on capital investment, according to economist Andrew Smithers.
Even worse, argues Harvard's Clayton Christensen in a recent paper, much of that investment is directed toward making existing products or delivering existing services more efficiently — often with fewer workers — rather than innovating new products or services that create new, high-paying jobs. This plague of risk-averse "short-termism," as Nobel-winning economist Edmund Phelps writes in Mass Flourishing, reduces the total "supply of innovation" in the U.S. economy, resulting in slower growth and job creation.
On the surface, of course, none of this behavior makes much sense. Why would smart businessmen act so myopically? With coffers full and borrowing easy thanks to low interest rates, why wouldn't a company spend big to either expand today or invest in long-term projects with a large potential payoff tomorrow?
First, executives pay has become more dependent on bonuses, often linked to a company's stock prices — rather than salaries. At the same time, CEO tenure has declined since 2000. So bosses have big incentive to embrace short-term strategies — like buy-backs — that keep the stock price high and avoid those — like, say, a pricey new research initiative — which might make it tougher to hit those all-important quarterly earnings targets. As a result, Smithers writes in The Road to Recovery, "managements are willing to accept possible long-run damage from lower investment and the possible loss of market share." That's the next CEO's problem.
Second, executives have been slow adjust to a world where capital and cash are abundant. No longer, Christensen explains, do they have to worry about squeezing every bit of revenue and profit out of each dollar deployed ASAP. But that's the strategy they were taught in business school decades ago, so they keep right on doing it.
Third, investors, even those supposedly in it for the long run, like pension funds, aren't doing their job. They're not nudging management to lift their heads and look to the horizon. Instead, shareholders threaten to dump a company's stock if they miss those earnings targets, which Phelps compares to paying ransom to kidnappers.
Dealing with short-termism may be a long-term project. Executive pay will need to sync more closely with what's good for the overall economy, such as being linked to increased investment. Some research suggests limiting or eliminating "golden parachute" paydays for departing CEOs. Business school curricula will have to change. And Phelps says fund managers shouldn't be allowed to threaten company officials with financial damage if they miss earning targets.
And hey, maybe if business starts thinking more about the long term, maybe government will, too.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Is that what it means when I log in and read a thread and think to myself "wow, what a bunch of greedy selfish assholes!"? I just hope that these people who post here are not an adequate representation of America in general. If so, we are up the creek without a paddle, and like I said, greed is going to be our ultimate downfall. The middle class is dying out quickly. Why do you think that is?
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
what exactly are my bs talking points?
ChrisL
Diamond Member
I meant "your" in the general sense, speaking of "anonymous posters." Besides, that really has nothing to do with this topic. I was just annoyed.
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
So you whined about the whiners?
ChrisL
Diamond Member
No, I just think you are a bunch of dicks.
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
still whining
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Calling you a dick and telling you to go suck a dick isn't whining. And AGAIN, do you have anything to add to the TOPIC of discussion? Or are you going to whine that I called the posters here dick suckers?
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Okay, you bag of dicks. Add something to the topic or get lost.
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
that's funny you go on a whine about everyone being a dick and then say I'm off topic
Seriously why waste your time with all us dicks?
Is your life so empty?
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 298,157
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Welcome to 2016 AmericaGet a grip on reality. It's not just conservatives.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Clinton: Favorable/Unfavorable
55.6 unfavorable
Americans’ Distaste For Both Trump And Clinton Is Record-Breaking
The Democratic primary will technically march on, but Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be her party’s nominee. Same with Donald Trump. And voters don’t appear thrilled at the prospect: Clinton and Trump are both more strongly disliked than any nominee at this point in the past 10 presidential cycles....These are people who don’t just like or dislike the candidates, they really like or dislike them.
No past candidate comes close to Clinton, and especially Trump, in terms of engendering strong dislike a little more than six months before the election.
Hillary Clinton Favorable Rating - Polls - HuffPost Pollster
Clinton's Image Among Democrats at New Low
All politicians are disliked and mistrusted. Cruz, Christie, McConnell, Boehnor all have huge negatives
The only popular politician is Obama with a whopping 53% approval
ChrisL
Diamond Member
So no, you don't have anything to add. You are just butthurt. Oh well. I don't feel sorry for you.
What in the hell do you care what I think?
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
That's because he's leaving in a few monthsWelcome to 2016 AmericaGet a grip on reality. It's not just conservatives.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Clinton: Favorable/Unfavorable
55.6 unfavorable
Americans’ Distaste For Both Trump And Clinton Is Record-Breaking
The Democratic primary will technically march on, but Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be her party’s nominee. Same with Donald Trump. And voters don’t appear thrilled at the prospect: Clinton and Trump are both more strongly disliked than any nominee at this point in the past 10 presidential cycles....These are people who don’t just like or dislike the candidates, they really like or dislike them.
No past candidate comes close to Clinton, and especially Trump, in terms of engendering strong dislike a little more than six months before the election.
Hillary Clinton Favorable Rating - Polls - HuffPost Pollster
Clinton's Image Among Democrats at New Low
All politicians are disliked and mistrusted. Cruz, Christie, McConnell, Boehnor all have huge negatives
The only popular politician is Obama with a whopping 53% approval
Skull Pilot
Diamond Member
- Nov 17, 2007
- 45,446
- 6,164
- 1,830
I don't just pointing out you are exhibiting the exact behavior you are whining about
So no, you don't have anything to add. You are just butthurt. Oh well. I don't feel sorry for you.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Apparently, YOU are one of the dicks. Come here so I can poke out your eyeball.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
I don't just pointing out you are exhibiting the exact behavior you are whining about
So no, you don't have anything to add. You are just butthurt. Oh well. I don't feel sorry for you.
Well then shut up and stick to the topic instead of whining about it. This is a waste of time.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
no, Congress has made ITSELF irrelevant by refusing to do it's job. It's not quite the same thing.
4 Trillion in a 18 Trillion economy is not excessive. It's actually below what OTHER industrialized nations spend. But you see, the thing is with you Borrow and Spend conservatives is that by not raising taxes, you've made more government more attractive. Look at all the goodies we get and we don't have to pay for it? That's Awesome!!!
Have you met state-level government? Spend five minutes watching the clowns in Illinois and you'd realize what a stupid statement that is.
yet those are the people they chose.
Here's the thing. We don't WANT honest politicians. The last politician who was honest with us was Walter Mondale, who told us taxes would have to go up to address the (now seemingly tame) deficits we were running up in the 1980's. He lost 49 states.
Ronnie Raygun, your hero (the made up one, not the RINO who was actually president form 1981 to 1989) then promptly raised taxes after the election under the guise of "Tax Reform".
Divine Wind
Platinum Member
1) No, this forum isn't a good cross-section of Americans. Most don't log onto political forums. It takes a special kind of douchbag to do that. ⇐Sarcasm
2) Yes, Americans tend to be greedy, selfish assholes. We're highly materialistic consumerists who tend to be "He who dies with the most toys wins".
3) No, the middle class isn't dying out, but it's definitely taking a beating. There are solutions, but most of those solutions are against the Republican agenda.
The Lost Decade of the Middle Class
Since 2000, the middle class has shrunk in size, fallen backward in income and wealth, and shed some—but by no means all—of its characteristic faith in the future.
These stark assessments are based on findings from a new nationally representative Pew Research Center survey that includes 1,287 adults who describe themselves as middle class, supplemented by the Center’s analysis of data from the U.S. Census Bureau and Federal Reserve Board of Governors.
Fully 85% of self-described middle-class adults say it is more difficult now than it was a decade ago for middle-class people to maintain their standard of living. Of those who feel this way, 62% say “a lot” of the blame lies with Congress, while 54% say the same about banks and financial institutions, 47% about large corporations, 44% about the Bush administration, 39% about foreign competition and 34% about the Obama administration. Just 8% blame the middle class itself a lot.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 298,157
- 221,946
- 3,615
That's because he's leaving in a few monthsWelcome to 2016 AmericaGet a grip on reality. It's not just conservatives.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Clinton: Favorable/Unfavorable
55.6 unfavorable
Americans’ Distaste For Both Trump And Clinton Is Record-Breaking
The Democratic primary will technically march on, but Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be her party’s nominee. Same with Donald Trump. And voters don’t appear thrilled at the prospect: Clinton and Trump are both more strongly disliked than any nominee at this point in the past 10 presidential cycles....These are people who don’t just like or dislike the candidates, they really like or dislike them.
No past candidate comes close to Clinton, and especially Trump, in terms of engendering strong dislike a little more than six months before the election.
Hillary Clinton Favorable Rating - Polls - HuffPost Pollster
Clinton's Image Among Democrats at New Low
All politicians are disliked and mistrusted. Cruz, Christie, McConnell, Boehnor all have huge negatives
The only popular politician is Obama with a whopping 53% approval
Bush was leaving in a few months and had an approval of 28%
Obama is the most popular politician in America. Trump tries to paint Hillary as another Obama
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