Zone1 Let's Talk About "Merit"

[Hector12]

Here's the real problem, though. Unless we invest the money educating people of color, we aren't going to be able to compete with China in the long run, because they are investing in education.

In the United states and in the Far East the average Oriental IQ is 106. In the United States the average Negro IQ is 85. In Africa it is even lower.

The U.S. educational system would be wise to invest its money where it can get the best return.

You can explain why this or that effort to close the race gap in intellectual performance failed. You cannot point to an effort that succeeded.

 

[Lisa558]

Who said they had to give up a chance to escape poverty? Again, as I said, we kind of already did them a solid by letting them into this country.

So, oh, my gosh, they'd have to go to state! Hey, I went to UIC, and we had plenty of Jews there. Israeli independence day was a big deal every year, as you'd have the Jewish students having their celebration, and the Palestinians students protesting outside.

So why shouldn’t the blacks who get lower scores and grades go to State? Why should my parents be relegated to the lesser school when they were the better students?

And as far as America “doing Jews a solid” by letting them into this country, the country has gained immensely by having done so.

 

[JoeB131]

Why do mot Orientals perform and behave so well in the United States? They are a non white race. Orientals who moved to the United States were easy to identify. They faced persecution and discrimination, and overcame it.

I don't know, I've never met an "oriental". Isn't that a kind of rug?

I've met Asians, and most of them are wonderful people. Not all of them perform that well. You have a lot of them that don't even speak English, but they don't have to, because they live in cloistered communities.

What they DIDN'T face was the kinds of persecutions that blacks faced. The goal with Asians was to keep them out of the country. Which is why you had things like the Chinese Exclusion Acts. Of course, the ones who could get here often had the resources to get here. We aren't taking every poor Chinese peasant, we are taking people who have education and skills already.

Blacks had the opposite problem. They didn't want to come to this country, they were brought over in chains, subjected to forced labor, systematic rape (which is why you see such a wide array of skin tones on black folks), segregation, voter suppression, a criminal justice system that singles them out for selective punishment, and so on.

It's like if I broke both of your legs and then mocked you for not being able to run a marathon.

 

[Hector12]

Why?

Diversity typically means people from a variety of backgrounds and experiences. Different economic backgrounds, ethnicities, different parts of the country and yes, different racial backgrounds. Do you think a bright White Jewish kid who grew up in the Chicago suburbs will bring the same experiences to the table as a bright Black kid who grew up in a single parent home in a poor urban neighborhood? How about the Asian girl, daughter of diplomats, who grew up around Washington DC and the Hispanic girl who is a first generation immigrant from Texas? Or the first gen kid from Mingo County WV, son of a coal miner, and the kid whose parents immigrated from Cambodia and built their own business? That is what a diverse student campus looks like. Diversity in thought and the challenging of assumptions is what they should be exposed to in their educational experience and, just as important, through their relationships with each other.

Diversity is not our strength. It is the ultimate reason for the political polarization that makes it difficult for the government to solve problems that would have been manageable before 1964, like the growing national debt, for example.

 

[JoeB131]

In the United states and in the Far East the average Oriental IQ is 106. In the United States the average Negro IQ is 85. In Africa it is even lower.

Proving we haven't invested the resources.

You can explain why this or that effort to close the race gap in intellectual performance failed. You cannot point to an effort that succeeded.

I also can't point to an effort that was tried.

 

[Lisa558]

Why?

Diversity typically means people from a variety of backgrounds and experiences. Different economic backgrounds, ethnicities, different parts of the country and yes, different racial backgrounds. Do you think a bright White Jewish kid who grew up in the Chicago suburbs will bring the same experiences to the table as a bright Black kid who grew up in a single parent home in a poor urban neighborhood? How about the Asian girl, daughter of diplomats, who grew up around Washington DC and the Hispanic girl who is a first generation immigrant from Texas? Or the first gen kid from Mingo County WV, son of a coal miner, and the kid whose parents immigrated from Cambodia and built their own business? That is what a diverse student campus looks like. Diversity in thought and the challenging of assumptions is what they should be exposed to in their educational experience and, just as important, through their relationships with each other.

I say we just let the brightest, most competent students into the top schools, and let the students who are not as academically gifted go to the colleges they would qualify for without all the pretzel-twisting.

 

[Hector12]

What they DIDN'T face was the kinds of persecutions that blacks faced.

White racism does not explain black social pathology. Black social pathology explains white racism.

In parts of the South Orientals were considered to be "honorary whites" because it was obvious that they performed and behaved at least as well as whites. Most blacks never have.

 

[JoeB131]

Diversity is not our strength. It is the ultimate reason for the political polarization that makes it difficult for the government to solve problems that would have been manageable before 1964, like the growing national debt, for example.

You know, is there any problem you can't blame on black people? I'm just asking. Do you stub your toe in the morning, and then blame black folks for that?

We have a national debt problem because in 1981, some senile actor we made president decided that the rich people shouldn't pay their fair share. The rich people liked not paying their fair share so much they kept finding ways to not do it.

That's why we have a national debt problem. We really didn't before 1981.

 

[Hector12]

Proving we haven't invested the resources.


I also can't point to an effort that was tried.

No method has been found that significantly and permanently raises IQ's. Head Start and No Child Left behind tried and failed.

There is no conspiracy to keep black from performing as well academically and on mental aptitude tests on the average as whites and Orientals. Any one who devised a method that achieved this would be celebrated.

 

[JoeB131]

I say we just let the brightest, most competent students into the top schools, and let the students who are not as academically gifted go to the colleges they would qualify for without all the pretzel-twisting.

No problem. After you've gotten rid of the legacies, the athletic scholarships, the Dean's interests, and the Children of Staff getting special consideration, THEN we can sit down and talk about racial admissions.

White racism does not explain black social pathology. Black social pathology explains white racism.

um, no, not really. If there was a point when blacks were equal and they turned on us, then you might have a point. Our entire history has been of "How can we screw black people today." So when I look at a guy like IM2, I see a guy who is perpetually angry, but I haven't lived his life, perhaps a lot of his anger is justified.

I really see no excuse for your behavior (even if Jamal really did take your girl.)

In parts of the South Orientals were considered to be "honorary whites" because it was obvious that they performed and behaved at least as well as whites. Most blacks never have.

Well, let's look at THAT ONE.

Did the people in South every spend a century celebrating evil men who tried to destroy the union so a few rich white people could keep owning Asians?

If you want to take the sexual component, a big part of systematic racism is the fear that black men might pleasure white women better than white men could. Kind of the opposite of how we treat Asians, where Asian women are fetishized. It's kind of that primal.

The biggest mistake made after the Civil War was that we didn't inflict a victor's justice. We should have hanged Lee, Davis, and every other traitor who took up arms, and made sure that the history books portrayed them as the bad guys. Kind of like we did with Germany after WWII.

A poll of Germans in the 1950's showed some still had warm feelings for Hitler. Today, that's simply not the case.

It shouldn't have taken a century to take down the Confederate Flags and racist statues.

 

[Hector12]

We have a national debt problem because in 1981, some senile actor we made president decided that the rich people shouldn't pay their fair share. The rich people liked not paying their fair share so much they kept finding ways to not do it.

That's why we have a national debt problem. We really didn't before 1981.

What you say about the national debt is certainly true. Why were Reagan. Bush II, and Trump able to get away with cutting taxes for the rich?

The tax revolt which began with the passing of Proposition 13 in Californian was ultimately a draft riot against the War on Poverty. Proposition 13, which I voted against by the way, as I voted against Reagan, passed in 1978.

By 1978 blacks had had a decade to prove that civil rights legislation and the War on Poverty would improve their behavior. Instead their behavior got quite a bid worse. The Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty, both passed in 1064, were followed by five years of black ghetto riots and more enduring increases in black crime and illegitimacy.

Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon were re elected in landslides because of wide spread hostility toward Negroes. Why does that hostility persist, when hostility against Jews and Orientals has largely dissipated? Are Negroes innocent victims of irrational color prejudice? Do most Negroes perform and behave as well as most whites? Have they ever, at any time in history, anywhere in the world?

 

[IM2]

Whites are 59% us population 54% post grads

Asians are .045% of US population but 6% post grad.

This means they are 133 times more likely to be admitted than whites.

Where is the white privilege?

Jo

Stupid question based on twisting charrey picked data. This is about white legacy preferences for admissions.

 

[Coyote]

I say we just let the brightest, most competent students into the top schools, and let the students who are not as academically gifted go to the colleges they would qualify for without all the pretzel-twisting.

There is no pretzel twisting.

Are you saying that there is no value in diversity on a college campus? If so, why?

 

[Hector12]

I really see no excuse for your behavior (even if Jamal really did take your girl.)

You mention your imaginary friend whenever you lose an argument with me. Use the race card, instead. It is less salacious

 

[Coyote]

What you say about the national debt is certainly true. Why were Reagan. Bush II, and Trump able to get away with cutting taxes for the rich?

The tax revolt which began with the passing of Proposition 13 in Californian was ultimately a draft riot against the War on Poverty. Proposition 13, which I voted against by the way, as I voted against Reagan, passed in 1978.

By 1978 blacks had had a decade to prove that civil rights legislation and the War on Poverty would improve their behavior. Instead their behavior got quite a bid worse. The Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty, both passed in 1064, were followed by five years of black ghetto riots and more enduring increases in black crime and illegitimacy.

Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon were re elected in landslides because of wide spread hostility toward Negroes. Why does that hostility persist, when hostility against Jews and Orientals has largely dissipated? Are Negroes innocent victims of irrational color prejudice? Do most Negroes perform and behave as well as most whites? Have they ever, at any time in history, anywhere in the world?

JoeB131 and Hector12, this is going down a rabbit hole and going to derail the thread. Let’s get back to merit please.

 

[justoffal]

Stupid question based on twisting charrey picked data. This is about white legacy preferences for admissions.

Yeah... legacy admission is stupid.... Not sure how you can fix that. But then again can't Harvard do as they please? Or does the student loan program give give the government a way in?

Jo

 

[JoeB131]

No method has been found that significantly and permanently raises IQ's. Head Start and No Child Left behind tried and failed.

NCLB was a farce from the start. Head Start was never sufficiently funded and was never aimed at black people specifically.

There is no conspiracy to keep black from performing as well academically and on mental aptitude tests on the average as whites and Orientals. Any one who devised a method that achieved this would be celebrated.

Celebrated by who, you? I'm sure you'd love to come up with new ways to avenge yourself on Jamal, but the reality is that the SAT was developed by a racist. The problem with SAT's is that white folks can afford to pay tutors 30-50 bucks an hour to make sure their kids know which multiple choice to pick.

 

[Lisa558]

There is no pretzel twisting.

Are you saying that there is no value in diversity on a college campus? If so, why?

Diversity can do harm when it becomes the priority over ability and competence. And that applies in the working world too. Wouldn‘t it have been better if the person chosen as, say, Press Secretary was chosen for his or her skill and ability rather than a “check the diversity boxes” person who is unqualified for her job?

 

[Hector12]

There is no pretzel twisting.

Are you saying that there is no value in diversity on a college campus? If so, why?

Diversity is only valuable when there is no diversity of merit. Nothing is achieved by lowering standards for Negroes. Affirmative action reinforces prejudice against Negroes because everyone can see how poorly beneficiaries of affirmative action perform.

 

[Hector12]

NCLB was a farce from the start. Head Start was never sufficiently funded and was never aimed at black people specifically.

OK big guy. Draw attention to a method that worked.