Lets get this straight

[Redfish]

And the people will cry out for single payer.

ask the brits and canadians about that. then ask them why privatized medicine is growing rapidly in those countries.

you silly libs think that single payer means FREE. you are so fricken stupid that you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything.

the govt has one source of money-----------US, you and me.

It must be weird living in that head of yours, what with it crowded with so many strawmen you have built.

My post is 100% accurate, what exactly is your issue?

 

[g5000]

ask the brits and canadians about that. then ask them why privatized medicine is growing rapidly in those countries.

you silly libs think that single payer means FREE. you are so fricken stupid that you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything.

the govt has one source of money-----------US, you and me.

It must be weird living in that head of yours, what with it crowded with so many strawmen you have built.

My post is 100% accurate, what exactly is your issue?

"you silly libs"

Strawman.

"think that single payer means FREE."

Strawman.

"you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything"

Strawman.

 

[Redfish]

That has always been the ultimate goal, and the far left wing telegraphed it quite clearly for decades. Which makes the GOP's betrayal all that much more treacherous.

Well, Reagan's approach would have been to get as many people as possible into private markets, but people have to have money to get into markets.

You buy your home insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your life insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your auto insurance in the private market, don't you?

And it's cheap! And we have lots and lots and lots of companies to choose from!

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance. Across state lines from any company in America, choosing for ourselves what options we do or don't want. We should not be forced into a take-it-or-leave-it single company option from our employer in a pool constricted by the size of our employer. And the government should not be a market player who gets to write the rules for its competitors, tying their hands, while it gets to play across all state lines and set the market rates!

This is an entirely bogus set-up.

You are correct on all counts, based on your previous posts we must assume that you suffered head trama of some sort in the last few hours.

 

[Redfish]

It must be weird living in that head of yours, what with it crowded with so many strawmen you have built.

My post is 100% accurate, what exactly is your issue?

"you silly libs"


Strawman.

Ok, change it to "the silly libs". I assumed that you were one of them based on your previous posts.

 

[g5000]

My post is 100% accurate, what exactly is your issue?

"you silly libs"


Strawman.

Ok, change it to "the silly libs". I assumed that you were one of them based on your previous posts.

"think that single payer means FREE."

Strawman. This not what liberals believe. They know it costs money. That's why Obama put tax hikes in ObamaCare. To PAY FOR IT.

One could argue conservatives thought Medicare Group D was free since they did not make allowances to pay for that trillion dollar program.



"you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything"

Strawman.

 

[g5000]

The Right keeps getting defeated precisely because of all the strawman building they do these days. Inventing bullshit and then stomping the shit out of their own invention.

Meanwhile, Obama and the Democrats are out dancing with the voters in the real world.

 

[bendog]

That has always been the ultimate goal, and the far left wing telegraphed it quite clearly for decades. Which makes the GOP's betrayal all that much more treacherous.

Well, Reagan's approach would have been to get as many people as possible into private markets, but people have to have money to get into markets.

You buy your home insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your life insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your auto insurance in the private market, don't you?

And it's cheap! And we have lots and lots and lots of companies to choose from!

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance. Across state lines from any company in America, choosing for ourselves what options we do or don't want. We should not be forced into a take-it-or-leave-it single company option from our employer in a pool constricted by the size of our employer. And the government should not be a market player who gets to write the rules for its competitors, tying their hands, while it gets to play across all state lines and set the market rates!

This is an entirely bogus set-up.

Why would any worker give up a benefit that has been part of his pay since the AMA and capital defeated single payor in the 60s. I agree the private market is the way to go, but the gop is simply argueing for a paycut and higher profits.

Good luck with that Jack at the ballot. The gop's gotta have a come to Jesus moment on this, or it's single payor.

 

[Redfish]

"you silly libs"


Strawman.

Ok, change it to "the silly libs". I assumed that you were one of them based on your previous posts.

"think that single payer means FREE."

Strawman. This not what liberals believe. They know it costs money. That's why Obama put tax hikes in ObamaCare. To PAY FOR IT.

"you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything"

Strawman.

Liberals believe those things, they are not strawmen. They reflect the way liberals think. They wrongly assume that the additional costs will be paid by someone other than them i.e. free for them.

 

[Redfish]

The Right keeps getting defeated precisely because of all the strawman building they do these days. Inventing bullshit and then stomping the shit out of their own invention.

Meanwhile, Obama and the Democrats are out dancing with the voters in the real world.

If only you had some experience in the "real world". The real world is fed up with the lies and incompetence of obama and the dems. and, yes, they are fed up with some in the GOP for the same reasons.

a 38% approval rating is hardly dancing with the voters. and yes, congress is even lower, both parties.

the people are fed up with all of them, but currently obama is in charge, so most of it is on him.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And the people will cry out for single payer.

ask the brits and canadians about that. then ask them why privatized medicine is growing rapidly in those countries.

you silly libs think that single payer means FREE. you are so fricken stupid that you think the govt just has tons of money sitting around and can pay for anything.

the govt has one source of money-----------US, you and me.

It must be weird living in that head of yours, what with it crowded with so many strawmen you have built.

Oopsies

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fexz8Ij-OBQ]Paul Krugman Canadian healthcare - YouTube[/ame]

 

[g5000]

Well, Reagan's approach would have been to get as many people as possible into private markets, but people have to have money to get into markets.

You buy your home insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your life insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your auto insurance in the private market, don't you?

And it's cheap! And we have lots and lots and lots of companies to choose from!

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance. Across state lines from any company in America, choosing for ourselves what options we do or don't want. We should not be forced into a take-it-or-leave-it single company option from our employer in a pool constricted by the size of our employer. And the government should not be a market player who gets to write the rules for its competitors, tying their hands, while it gets to play across all state lines and set the market rates!

This is an entirely bogus set-up.

Why would any worker give up a benefit that has been part of his pay since the AMA and capital defeated single payor in the 60s. I agree the private market is the way to go, but the gop is simply argueing for a paycut and higher profits.

Good luck with that Jack at the ballot. The gop's gotta have a come to Jesus moment on this, or it's single payor.

The GOP has been too busy ignoring the problem when in power, or bashing the Democrats when the Dems are in power. They have completely bungled the opportunity to make the case for moving toward free markets.

Too little time making the case and too much time bashing the other guy.

That is why we are inevitably going to end up with single payer now.

But as Redfish has pointed out, those countries which have single payer have started opening up private insurance markets. Back during the debates over health care in 2007/2008, I used to often cite a Canadian Supreme Court case. It used to be illegal to sell private insurance in Canada, and someone eventually sued to get that changed. The majority of their Supreme Court ruled that private insurance had to be allowed in Canada henceforth because "access to a waiting list is not access to health care."

My favorite anti-UHC line, ever.

 

[Redfish]

The Right keeps getting defeated precisely because of all the strawman building they do these days. Inventing bullshit and then stomping the shit out of their own invention.

Meanwhile, Obama and the Democrats are out dancing with the voters in the real world.

was the right defeated in 2010? I think not. Won't be in 2014 or 2016 either. The voters are fed up with the leftists in both parties.

 

[g5000]

Here's that case: Canadian Supreme Court: "Access to a Waiting List is NOT Access to Health Care"

 

[bendog]

You buy your home insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your life insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your auto insurance in the private market, don't you?

And it's cheap! And we have lots and lots and lots of companies to choose from!

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance. Across state lines from any company in America, choosing for ourselves what options we do or don't want. We should not be forced into a take-it-or-leave-it single company option from our employer in a pool constricted by the size of our employer. And the government should not be a market player who gets to write the rules for its competitors, tying their hands, while it gets to play across all state lines and set the market rates!

This is an entirely bogus set-up.

Why would any worker give up a benefit that has been part of his pay since the AMA and capital defeated single payor in the 60s. I agree the private market is the way to go, but the gop is simply argueing for a paycut and higher profits.

Good luck with that Jack at the ballot. The gop's gotta have a come to Jesus moment on this, or it's single payor.

The GOP has been too busy ignoring the problem when in power, or bashing the Democrats when the Dems are in power. They have completely bungled the opportunity to make the case for moving toward free markets.

Too little time making the case and too much time bashing the other guy.

That is why we are inevitably going to end up with single payer now.

But as Redfish has pointed out, those countries which have single payer have started opening up private insurance markets. Back during the debates over health care in 2007/2008, I used to often cite a Canadian Supreme Court case. It used to be illegal to sell private insurance in Canada, and someone eventually sued to get that changed. The majority of their Supreme Court ruled that private insurance had to be allowed in Canada henceforth because "access to a waiting list is not access to health care."

My favorite anti-UHC line, ever.

Well, yeah, Germany for example essentially "gives" a tax subsidy to buy into a base plan, and then workers and employers and providers can agree to provide "more" in a managed marketplace. The word "give" means taxes are levied to pay for the subsidy.

But, let's be honest. the TPM didn't even go for that. Bennett Coburn Barazzo Enzi, et al, were all on board to consider some systemic fix that didn't involve simply putting everyone on Medicaid/medicare ..... but the party of no said no.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You buy your home insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your life insurance in the private market, don't you? You buy your auto insurance in the private market, don't you?

And it's cheap! And we have lots and lots and lots of companies to choose from!

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance. Across state lines from any company in America, choosing for ourselves what options we do or don't want. We should not be forced into a take-it-or-leave-it single company option from our employer in a pool constricted by the size of our employer. And the government should not be a market player who gets to write the rules for its competitors, tying their hands, while it gets to play across all state lines and set the market rates!

This is an entirely bogus set-up.

Why would any worker give up a benefit that has been part of his pay since the AMA and capital defeated single payor in the 60s. I agree the private market is the way to go, but the gop is simply argueing for a paycut and higher profits.

Good luck with that Jack at the ballot. The gop's gotta have a come to Jesus moment on this, or it's single payor.

The GOP has been too busy ignoring the problem when in power, or bashing the Democrats when the Dems are in power. They have completely bungled the opportunity to make the case for moving toward free markets.

Too little time making the case and too much time bashing the other guy.

That is why we are inevitably going to end up with single payer now.

But as Redfish has pointed out, those countries which have single payer have started opening up private insurance markets. Back during the debates over health care in 2007/2008, I used to often cite a Canadian Supreme Court case. It used to be illegal to sell private insurance in Canada, and someone eventually sued to get that changed. The majority of their Supreme Court ruled that private insurance had to be allowed in Canada henceforth because "access to a waiting list is not access to health care."

My favorite anti-UHC line, ever.

Here's what happens when Republicans try to address the fiscal certainty of the unsustainability of our Social programs

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1Z4U]Granny Off the Cliff - YouTube[/ame]

 

[g5000]

Why would any worker give up a benefit that has been part of his pay since the AMA and capital defeated single payor in the 60s. I agree the private market is the way to go, but the gop is simply argueing for a paycut and higher profits.

Good luck with that Jack at the ballot. The gop's gotta have a come to Jesus moment on this, or it's single payor.

The GOP has been too busy ignoring the problem when in power, or bashing the Democrats when the Dems are in power. They have completely bungled the opportunity to make the case for moving toward free markets.

Too little time making the case and too much time bashing the other guy.

That is why we are inevitably going to end up with single payer now.

But as Redfish has pointed out, those countries which have single payer have started opening up private insurance markets. Back during the debates over health care in 2007/2008, I used to often cite a Canadian Supreme Court case. It used to be illegal to sell private insurance in Canada, and someone eventually sued to get that changed. The majority of their Supreme Court ruled that private insurance had to be allowed in Canada henceforth because "access to a waiting list is not access to health care."

My favorite anti-UHC line, ever.

Well, yeah, Germany for example essentially "gives" a tax subsidy to buy into a base plan, and then workers and employers and providers can agree to provide "more" in a managed marketplace. The word "give" means taxes are levied to pay for the subsidy.

But, let's be honest. the TPM didn't even go for that. Bennett Coburn Barazzo Enzi, et al, were all on board to consider some systemic fix that didn't involve simply putting everyone on Medicaid/medicare ..... but the party of no said no.

If the GOP had acted like real conservatives when they were in power, the Tea Party would never have been invented. As a matter of fact, Obama would never have been invented.

The Tea Party is too little, too late. The GOP long ago surrendered the moral high ground.

 

[Redfish]

The GOP has been too busy ignoring the problem when in power, or bashing the Democrats when the Dems are in power. They have completely bungled the opportunity to make the case for moving toward free markets.

Too little time making the case and too much time bashing the other guy.

That is why we are inevitably going to end up with single payer now.

But as Redfish has pointed out, those countries which have single payer have started opening up private insurance markets. Back during the debates over health care in 2007/2008, I used to often cite a Canadian Supreme Court case. It used to be illegal to sell private insurance in Canada, and someone eventually sued to get that changed. The majority of their Supreme Court ruled that private insurance had to be allowed in Canada henceforth because "access to a waiting list is not access to health care."

My favorite anti-UHC line, ever.

Well, yeah, Germany for example essentially "gives" a tax subsidy to buy into a base plan, and then workers and employers and providers can agree to provide "more" in a managed marketplace. The word "give" means taxes are levied to pay for the subsidy.

But, let's be honest. the TPM didn't even go for that. Bennett Coburn Barazzo Enzi, et al, were all on board to consider some systemic fix that didn't involve simply putting everyone on Medicaid/medicare ..... but the party of no said no.

If the GOP had acted like real conservatives when they were in power, the Tea Party would never have been invented. As a matter of fact, Obama would never have been invented.

The Tea Party is too little, too late. The GOP long ago surrendered the moral high ground.

So whats the answer? for everyone to become a liberal democrat? You are either a defeatist or a liberal plant, I am still on the fence as to which.

 

[bendog]

Well, yeah, Germany for example essentially "gives" a tax subsidy to buy into a base plan, and then workers and employers and providers can agree to provide "more" in a managed marketplace. The word "give" means taxes are levied to pay for the subsidy.

But, let's be honest. the TPM didn't even go for that. Bennett Coburn Barazzo Enzi, et al, were all on board to consider some systemic fix that didn't involve simply putting everyone on Medicaid/medicare ..... but the party of no said no.

If the GOP had acted like real conservatives when they were in power, the Tea Party would never have been invented. As a matter of fact, Obama would never have been invented.

The Tea Party is too little, too late. The GOP long ago surrendered the moral high ground.

So whats the answer? for everyone to become a liberal democrat? You are either a defeatist or a liberal plant, I am still on the fence as to which.

well, if I said we should adopt something like Germany or Poland, or even Sweden - which I did years ago alibeit on a different board - you'd call me a RINO. But, as Sweden demonstrates, it's not socialism to use tax policy, even progressive tax policy, to get people into private markets. It's only socialism when the market is single payor.

Nevertheless, since you ask, I'd be inclined to return to voting gop if the party honestly said let's take something like the obamacare taxes and move to a Swedish (or Pole) model, and then explain in Reagan like terms why its better for people to take more control over their own insurance.

 

[Redfish]

If the GOP had acted like real conservatives when they were in power, the Tea Party would never have been invented. As a matter of fact, Obama would never have been invented.

The Tea Party is too little, too late. The GOP long ago surrendered the moral high ground.

So whats the answer? for everyone to become a liberal democrat? You are either a defeatist or a liberal plant, I am still on the fence as to which.

well, if I said we should adopt something like Germany or Poland, or even Sweden - which I did years ago alibeit on a different board - you'd call me a RINO. But, as Sweden demonstrates, it's not socialism to use tax policy, even progressive tax policy, to get people into private markets. It's only socialism when the market is single payor.

Nevertheless, since you ask, I'd be inclined to return to voting gop if the party honestly said let's take something like the obamacare taxes and move to a Swedish (or Pole) model, and then explain in Reagan like terms why its better for people to take more control over their own insurance.

Sweden is a country with a small homogeneous population, its more like a large extended family, what might work there would never work here.

Note to some of the lefties-----------I did not call the swedes homosexuals.

 

[Redfish]

If the GOP had acted like real conservatives when they were in power, the Tea Party would never have been invented. As a matter of fact, Obama would never have been invented.

The Tea Party is too little, too late. The GOP long ago surrendered the moral high ground.

So whats the answer? for everyone to become a liberal democrat? You are either a defeatist or a liberal plant, I am still on the fence as to which.

well, if I said we should adopt something like Germany or Poland, or even Sweden - which I did years ago alibeit on a different board - you'd call me a RINO. But, as Sweden demonstrates, it's not socialism to use tax policy, even progressive tax policy, to get people into private markets. It's only socialism when the market is single payor.

Nevertheless, since you ask, I'd be inclined to return to voting gop if the party honestly said let's take something like the obamacare taxes and move to a Swedish (or Pole) model, and then explain in Reagan like terms why its better for people to take more control over their own insurance.

I guess I am confused. Do people go to Germany, sweden, or Poland when they have serious medical conditions?

They do come to the USA, wonder why that is.