Let elderly people 'hurry up and die', says Japanese minister

[Unkotare]

That is so un Japanese. I imagine the Japanese people are ashamed of him. The Japanese students that come here are shocked when they visit our nursing homes. They keep their elderly at home with them. And 67 or 68? Japanese live a lot longer than that. Every Japanese person I have ever met and I've met hundreds, have revered their elderly. Going to have to ask Tachi what he thinks about this when he's here next month.

Well? Did you ask?

 

[Againsheila]

That is so un Japanese. I imagine the Japanese people are ashamed of him. The Japanese students that come here are shocked when they visit our nursing homes. They keep their elderly at home with them. And 67 or 68? Japanese live a lot longer than that. Every Japanese person I have ever met and I've met hundreds, have revered their elderly. Going to have to ask Tachi what he thinks about this when he's here next month.

Well? Did you ask?

Sorry I forgot, he's still here, visiting my neighbors next door, they'll be out of town this weekend but if I remember, I'll ask him on Monday. I'd go ask him now, but they might now appreciate being awakened at 3:46 am.

 

[Unkotare]

You don't need to bother him. What I told you is accurate.

 

[Againsheila]

You don't need to bother him. What I told you is accurate.

What did you tell me?

 

[Unkotare]

You don't need to bother him. What I told you is accurate.

What did you tell me?

I told you this:

The problem is, with shrinking families, more people marrying later if at all, and longer life-spans, the traditional family structure is becoming untenable for more and more people despite traditional values. Nursing homes (as well as day care centers on the other end of the spectrum) are very much on the rise in Japan and public support for same is a pressing social and economic issue.

 

[Againsheila]

You don't need to bother him. What I told you is accurate.

What did you tell me?

I told you this:

The problem is, with shrinking families, more people marrying later if at all, and longer life-spans, the traditional family structure is becoming untenable for more and more people despite traditional values. Nursing homes (as well as day care centers on the other end of the spectrum) are very much on the rise in Japan and public support for same is a pressing social and economic issue.

I don't think I argued with that, did I? The more westernized they become, the more daycare centers and nursing homes there will be and Japan has very much become westernized. Of course, I guess I was speaking traditionally. taichi got married later in life. He and his wife live with his mother in law, they are not planning on children.

My friend Rumiko left her husband because she was expected to care for his elderly parents, all the time she was working full time and raising their girls. They are back together now that his parents are gone.

It's a rough transition and I'm not even sure it should be taking place. I like the old fashioned values where they took care of their elderly. Most of the Japanese people that I meet, not all, are aghast at our nursing homes. I've not been to one in Japan, but I'm betting they are better than at least some of ours. Lord knows just about everything else is better in Japan.

 

[Gracie]

I hope I don't linger, either. In fact, I wish it were as easy to put oneself "to sleep" like we can our pets instead of watching them suffer and hang on even when they wish they could let go. But nooooooooooo. It is against the law to die with dignity. Instead, you get shuffled off to some old folks home, amongst strangers, and die there...eventually.

Concerning Japan...I always thought they revered their elders. Becoming westernized sometimes is not such a good thing.

 

[Unkotare]

What did you tell me?

I told you this:

The problem is, with shrinking families, more people marrying later if at all, and longer life-spans, the traditional family structure is becoming untenable for more and more people despite traditional values. Nursing homes (as well as day care centers on the other end of the spectrum) are very much on the rise in Japan and public support for same is a pressing social and economic issue.

I don't think I argued with that, did I? The more westernized they become, the more daycare centers and nursing homes there will be and Japan has very much become westernized..

I don't think it's so much a matter of westernization as adapting to changing demographic realities. Math is math.

 

[Agit8r]

Japan has Republicans? Who knew?

Yeah, Liberal Democrat means something different over there

Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[freedombecki]

I hope I don't linger, either. In fact, I wish it were as easy to put oneself "to sleep" like we can our pets instead of watching them suffer and hang on even when they wish they could let go. But nooooooooooo. It is against the law to die with dignity. Instead, you get shuffled off to some old folks home, amongst strangers, and die there...eventually.

Concerning Japan...I always thought they revered their elders. Becoming westernized sometimes is not such a good thing.

Some states allow this if the person requests it, and it is considered a medical, not a state issue, to the best of my knowledge. After her fourth bout with chemotherapy, one of my friends in Wyoming made an appointment and planned her funeral to the last appointment the week she passed in hospice. She was tired of chemotherapy over a 5 year time parameter. She wanted no more of it. It left a big hole in my heart, but she was enthusiastic about not having to suffer any more, so I dealt with it as her decision and that my loss of a dear confidante was nothing compared to the pain and unhappiness she was experiencing. She was in her fifties, and had been a beloved teacher and friend to many in her lifetime. It was hard on her daughter, though, but I'm sure that as time passes, the good of her life will be celebrated for the victory that it was.

The unfortunate thing about Obamacare is the loss of state's rights, however. Some would consider my friend's death unacceptable, including some willing to endure pain and not die until nature did it for them. That should always be the guarantee--freedom of choice within the parameter of the person's state. If they don't like the state's methods, they should cross a border where state laws are more in keeping with their beliefs.

I don't want to die with a needle furnishing me an easy way out. I want to fight and beat pain and kick pain's butt. I consider it fun.

 

[Againsheila]

I hope I don't linger, either. In fact, I wish it were as easy to put oneself "to sleep" like we can our pets instead of watching them suffer and hang on even when they wish they could let go. But nooooooooooo. It is against the law to die with dignity. Instead, you get shuffled off to some old folks home, amongst strangers, and die there...eventually.

Concerning Japan...I always thought they revered their elders. Becoming westernized sometimes is not such a good thing.

I agree. We could learn a lot from them. It's time we started working on becoming easternized. <interesting, according to my spell check, westernized is a word but not easternized>

 

[Againsheila]

I hope I don't linger, either. In fact, I wish it were as easy to put oneself "to sleep" like we can our pets instead of watching them suffer and hang on even when they wish they could let go. But nooooooooooo. It is against the law to die with dignity. Instead, you get shuffled off to some old folks home, amongst strangers, and die there...eventually.

Concerning Japan...I always thought they revered their elders. Becoming westernized sometimes is not such a good thing.

Some states allow this if the person requests it, and it is considered a medical, not a state issue, to the best of my knowledge. After her fourth bout with chemotherapy, one of my friends in Wyoming made an appointment and planned her funeral to the last appointment the week she passed in hospice. She was tired of chemotherapy over a 5 year time parameter. She wanted no more of it. It left a big hole in my heart, but she was enthusiastic about not having to suffer any more, so I dealt with it as her decision and that my loss of a dear confidante was nothing compared to the pain and unhappiness she was experiencing. She was in her fifties, and had been a beloved teacher and friend to many in her lifetime. It was hard on her daughter, though, but I'm sure that as time passes, the good of her life will be celebrated for the victory that it was.

The unfortunate thing about Obamacare is the loss of state's rights, however. Some would consider my friend's death unacceptable, including some willing to endure pain and not die until nature did it for them. That should always be the guarantee--freedom of choice within the parameter of the person's state. If they don't like the state's methods, they should cross a border where state laws are more in keeping with their beliefs.

I don't want to die with a needle furnishing me an easy way out. I want to fight and beat pain and kick pain's butt. I consider it fun.

I believe anyone has a right to refuse chemo. I know my mother refused treatment.

 

[rdean]

Republicans are so rigid in their ideology,

you are right Dean,especially the Far Right.....
and so are a hell of a lot of Far Left Democrats....including you......

Some Democrats are fringe. The very highest number is probably less than 10%.

Fully half of Republicans are crazy right wing nut bags.

Not something you can compare.

You don't see Democratic leaders saying the Democratic Party has no smart people and then the crowd of Democrats cheering wildly. You don't hear Democrats shouting out "let him die" at debates. You never saw Democrats wearing "put white back in the white house" shirts at rallies. You never saw Democratic leaders saying education is for snobs. You don't hear Democratic leaders saying disaster victims should pay to be rescued. You don't hear Democrats cheering "fewer police, firemen and teachers". You don't hear Democrats.........well, you get the idea.

Some Democrats are fringe. The very highest number is probably less than 10%.
bullshit,its higher than that.....you dont see that many Dean.....because YOU are one of the fringe.....your obsessed with Republicans.....i delivered mail here in the Anaheim Hills with a hell of a lot of Republicans......NONE OF THEM acted like you say they do.....even though there could well have been a few there.......they all had kids in school or college .....they never gave me the impression you give about them.......your problem Dean is you look at the Right fringe and think EVERY ******* Republican is just like the people you quote.....you are UNABLE to separate people......if i told all the Democrats here that they all must be like you and LaKota i am sure i would get more than a few replies telling me how you guys do not represent Moderate or Conservative Democrats.....matter of fact some have PM'd with me have said as much in the course of our discussion.....

If you vote for the crazies, you are one of the crazies.

 

[Unkotare]

It's time we started working on becoming easternized.

Meaning what, exactly?

 

[Unkotare]

Old age far from gentle for Japan's graying homeless | Reuters

 

[hoosier88]

It's not that Japan is becoming Westernized. It's that Japan refuses the obvious tactic of increasing births to @ least replacement rate for the nation as a whole. They discourage immigration, only Japanese need apply. They won't even extend citizenship to ethnic Koreans who have grown up in Japan, speak/write Japanese, are Japanese in all but name - who have been there since the Manchurian Incident in '36. W. Europe, E. Europe, Russia are suffering essentially the same fate - & PDRC is also, but there it's much more self-imposed.

The US has managed to avoid this fate - accidentally. Because we've invited in unskilled labor for so long - Chinese, Japanese for transcontinental railroad, Irish, E. European, Mexican, C. & S. American, those populations boost our birth rate & also swell our numbers themselves. W. Europe faces a slightly different issue - various Islamic populations going to Europe either claiming citizenship, or to work as cheaper labor.

Japan kept tinkering with their land values to prop up their currency - but in the long run, they need to export vigorously in order to keep their economy afloat. This means training & education, a skilled workforce. But on the way to that workforce, higher education, marriage & children have become increasingly difficult for young people. Their population numbers are crashing, have been for some time - & nobody knows what to do about it.

 

[Againsheila]

It's time we started working on becoming easternized.

Meaning what, exactly?

Meaning taking care of our families. Grandparents babysitting while the parents work. Taking care of the grandparents when they can't take care of themselves anymore. Clean up after ourselves, Tokyo is the cleanest city I've ever seen. Very few trash cans but no trash on the road or sidewalks, people took their trash home. Bicycles lined the sidewalks at night without being locked and no one stole them. Great public transportation system in Japan. People riding bikes in the city. The taxis were so clean there were white linen doilies on the seats and believe me, there wasn't a speck of dust anywhere. Heck, even their graffiti was better than ours. It looked more like artwork than gang tags.

We could learn a lot from them.

 

[auditor0007]

While I find this a bit funny, there is a serious side to the issue. We tend to keep people alive for a few extra weeks, or in some cases a few extra months when we know the end result will be death. Now, if that added time is time that can be even slightly enjoyed by that person, then I think everyone would agree that it is worthwhile to keep that person alive. However, if we keep someone alive just so they can suffer a little longer before finally dying, are we doing them any favors? Do they really want this? And is the cost justified?

It's a funny thing, our not being able to accept death. So many who have faith that they shall go to Heaven after their death, yet everyone is afraid to die. In many cases though, it's not so much the person dying who is afraid to die. Most of them have already come to terms with their own demise by the time they reach those final stages. It is the families of those people who so often refuse to let them go. If you want a case in point, look no further than Terry Shiavo, and she was just one of many. Hers stands out because of her parent's unwillingness to let her go, even though she had been dead for years.

 

[Unkotare]

It's time we started working on becoming easternized.

Meaning what, exactly?

Meaning taking care of our families. Grandparents babysitting while the parents work. Taking care of the grandparents when they can't take care of themselves anymore. Clean up after ourselves, Tokyo is the cleanest city I've ever seen. Very few trash cans but no trash on the road or sidewalks, people took their trash home. Bicycles lined the sidewalks at night without being locked and no one stole them. Great public transportation system in Japan. People riding bikes in the city. The taxis were so clean there were white linen doilies on the seats and believe me, there wasn't a speck of dust anywhere. Heck, even their graffiti was better than ours. It looked more like artwork than gang tags.

We could learn a lot from them.

Taking care of our families is not an Eastern vs Western values issue.

Bicycles are stolen in Tokyo everyday. If they are left on the streets overnight and not stolen they will be confiscated by the authorities. There are massive impound lots where people go everyday to pay a fine and collect bikes they left out.

"Clean" is a relative measure. Very many Japanese people would not agree with you that Tokyo is so super clean.

Loads of people in Western Europe ride bikes in cities.

You seem to be suffering from 'The Grass is Always Greener' syndrome, and you seem to be impressed with Japan specifically and not 'The East' in general.

 

[Againsheila]

While I find this a bit funny, there is a serious side to the issue. We tend to keep people alive for a few extra weeks, or in some cases a few extra months when we know the end result will be death. Now, if that added time is time that can be even slightly enjoyed by that person, then I think everyone would agree that it is worthwhile to keep that person alive. However, if we keep someone alive just so they can suffer a little longer before finally dying, are we doing them any favors? Do they really want this? And is the cost justified?

It's a funny thing, our not being able to accept death. So many who have faith that they shall go to Heaven after their death, yet everyone is afraid to die. In many cases though, it's not so much the person dying who is afraid to die. Most of them have already come to terms with their own demise by the time they reach those final stages. It is the families of those people who so often refuse to let them go. If you want a case in point, look no further than Terry Shiavo, and she was just one of many. Hers stands out because of her parent's unwillingness to let her go, even though she had been dead for years.

Terri was not any any pain. Her parents were willing to take over her care, there was no reason to starve her to death. There was still money left over from the lawsuit to pay for her care. Her husband just wanted to make sure she died so he could get what was left of that money, he didn't want to lose it all. And besides he'd already had another girlfriend and two kids to support. BTW, even though it was never proven there is suspicion that Terri ended up in that situation because she was abused by her husband. All he wanted was the money and to be free to remarry. He could have divorced her and handed over the care to her parents. He would have been free to remarry, he just wouldn't have gotten what was left of the settlement money.


IMO, no one should be forced to live through pain if it can be avoided. Pain is the deciding factor. My mother had a living trust with explicit instructions not to take any extra measures to keep her a live and to be sure she had pain killers even if it shortened her life. When she got lung cancer she was in great pain and she was on a lot of pain killers. My cousin accused us of killing her with pain killers saying, don't you think she would have lived longer without all those pain meds. I pointed out it was HER directions and we followed them to a T and would she rather her own mother be in that much pain?