Lessons learned

[Wry Catcher]

From Robert McNamara's 1995 book "In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam".

1.We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

2.We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

3.We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

4.Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

5.We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

6.We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

7.After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

8.We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

9.We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

10.We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

11.Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

Now, compare the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration by the measure of the eleven sage points.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
George Santayana

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1. We hamstrung our troops, we made them fight with one hand tied behind their back because we didn't really want to win in the first place

2. Even so, after our guys inflicted the most one-sided ass kicking on an enemy since Little Big Horn, at the Tet Offensive, Walter Cronkite and other Communist sympathizers in the US called the battle and the War for the Communists

 

[Wry Catcher]

LOL, thanks Frank for the RED SCARE commercial, and now back to reality.

Did the Bush Administration take into consideration these eleven lessons learned when they began to plan for the attack on Iraq? Remember, "The Fog of War" was published eight years before our forces attacked Iraq in 2003; curious intellects want to know if anyone in the Bush Administration considered these sage points before jumping in with both feet.

It does appear that the Obama Administration considered these eleven points or something similar in their foreign policy decisions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

LOL, thanks Frank for the RED SCARE commercial, and now back to reality.

Did the Bush Administration take into consideration these eleven lessons learned when they began to plan for the attack on Iraq? Remember, "The Fog of War" was published eight years before our forces attacked Iraq in 2003; curious intellects want to know if anyone in the Bush Administration considered these sage points before jumping in with both feet.

It does appear that the Obama Administration considered these eleven points or something similar in their foreign policy decisions.

Thanks to Bush, we actually won the war in Iraq, but thanks to Obama, we lost the peace

 

[Wry Catcher]

LOL, thanks Frank for the RED SCARE commercial, and now back to reality.

Did the Bush Administration take into consideration these eleven lessons learned when they began to plan for the attack on Iraq? Remember, "The Fog of War" was published eight years before our forces attacked Iraq in 2003; curious intellects want to know if anyone in the Bush Administration considered these sage points before jumping in with both feet.

It does appear that the Obama Administration considered these eleven points or something similar in their foreign policy decisions.

Thanks to Bush, we actually won the war in Iraq, but thanks to Obama, we lost the peace

Am I to believe you think (pardon the expression) that we need to double down on the surge and send more American kids into harms way? What would be the goal and what exit strategy would have been the best to employ? Do you think (lol) in doing so we would end over a thousand years of sectarian violence?

Did you read any of the eleven points (lol, of course not). Maybe if you had, and understood them, you wouldn't be the silly troll you've become, and someone might, someday, take you seriously.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From Robert McNamara's 1995 book "In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam".

1.We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

2.We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

3.We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

4.Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

5.We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

6.We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

7.After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

8.We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

9.We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

10.We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

11.Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

Now, compare the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration by the measure of the eleven sage points.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
George Santayana

Are you actually willing to do that honestly? My guess is that the answer to that is no, because I can prove, using the 11 points that you posted, that Obama scores lower than Bush.

 

[Wry Catcher]

From Robert McNamara's 1995 book "In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam".

1.We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

2.We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

3.We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

4.Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

5.We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

6.We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

7.After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

8.We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

9.We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

10.We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

11.Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

Now, compare the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration by the measure of the eleven sage points.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
George Santayana

Are you actually willing to do that honestly? My guess is that the answer to that is no, because I can prove, using the 11 points that you posted, that Obama scores lower than Bush.

Prove it!

 

[Wry Catcher]

Well, now we know how Quantum Windbag got his screen name. All hot air and no substance. He made a promise to prove Bush considered the eleven points and was more successful than has been Obama.

Anyone else want to prove Windbags allegation?

 

[Warrior102]

Well, now we know how Quantum Windbag got his screen name. All hot air and no substance. He made a promise to prove Bush considered the eleven points and was more successful than has been Obama.

Anyone else want to prove Windbags allegation?

Shut up already
What a dingbat

 

[Wry Catcher]

Well, now we know how Quantum Windbag got his screen name. All hot air and no substance. He made a promise to prove Bush considered the eleven points and was more successful than has been Obama.

Anyone else want to prove Windbags allegation?

Shut up already
What a dingbat

Looks as if Warrior is lost for intelligent words (lost forever it seems). I suppose "Shut up already" goes for intelligent pillow talk between he and Rabbi.

Since Windbag blows hot air ...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, now we know how Quantum Windbag got his screen name. All hot air and no substance. He made a promise to prove Bush considered the eleven points and was more successful than has been Obama.

Anyone else want to prove Windbags allegation?

The fact that I missed a reply in a stupid thread is how I got my name? Damn, I could have sworn I picked it to make people think one thing while meaning exactly the opposite. It has worked perfectly with people like you, even after I pointed out what I was doing.

Any, using your points, lets see what happens.

1. Obama pegged everyone one of those points at some point in the last 5 years. He exaggerated the danger of Syria and Libya, is ignoring the stated goals of everyone in the Middle East, and thinks he has all the answers. I am willing to call this a tie simply because I don't want to debate a couple of small things you think Bush got wrong that he actually got right.
2. This is completely irrelevant to Bush v Obama, but if you think Obama is doing a better job in the world today, you are full of it.
3. The way Obama, and you, is underestimating the power of religion in the same context? Don't worry, Bush did it too.
4. If only Obama had gone to Europe and asked them to support his economic polices regarding the recession it would have been fixed by now. Wait, he did, and did so publicly, and got rebuked. He retaliated by allowing the NSA to tap the cell phone of the German Chancellor. Great job. Edge Bush, he never tapped any phones of foreign leaders.
5. It is not the military's job to wind hearts and minds, it is their job to win battles. They won all the battles, and then got stuck with a job they are not supposed to do because all the idiots think the military can do anything. Obama is doing the same thing as Bush here.
6. This is where you flat out lose. Bush got Congress involved in the debate before going into Iraq. Admittedly, we could have had more debate before Afghanistan, but no one, including Obama, thinks we shouldn't have done what we did. Obama, ion the other hand, flat out told Congress he didn't need them before he ordered the attacks on Libya, and has refused to even answer their questions about most of his military and foreign policy.
7. Again, Bush did this every step of the way. He even discussed the need for a new strategy in Ira, and asked Congress to authorize more funding for the surge. What, exactly, has Obama done to explain what went wrong when his plans didn't work as expected?
8. I have never seen anyone say that Bush was omniscient. Most people don't even think he is smart. Obama, on the other hand, is the smartest kid in the class, the room, and actually believes he is better than anyone else at their jobs. Bush isn't even on the same planet as Obama in this category. (By the way, even if Bush did worse than Obama in every other category, this alone would push Obama over the top.)
9. Want to explain where, exactly, Bush failed here? Keep in mind that Afghanistan and Iraq both had support from the UN and the Security Council. You cannot say the same about Libya, or even Syria.
10. That explains why Obama isn't claiming he fixed everything in Iran... Damn.
11. This isn't even worthy of discussion until you deal with the fact that Obama doesn't need help from anyone to do their jobs.

Now you can prove this is an honest discussion by agreeing that Obama made it worse than Bush ever did.

 

[Wry Catcher]

From Robert McNamara's 1995 book "In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam".

1.We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

Did GWB and his Administration misjudge who would be their adversaries when they decided to invade and occupy Iraq? Of course they did, in their own words:

"You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time" Or with the equipment to allow our men and women in uniform to survive attacks riding in a less than armored vehicle.

2.We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

Self evident. How many of our troops died or were seriously/permanently wounded after GWB declared "Mission Accomplished"?

3, We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

Again, self evident. GWB and his Administration never considered a civil war among factions held in check by Saddam, or that sectarian violence would have such an impact on our occupation.

4.Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

Absolutely. From GWB first calling his quest a crusade our profound ignorance of Islam and the Iraqi people was apparent.

5.We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

As noted, vulnerable Humvees and the use of combat troops as police. Dumb, really dumb. Oh, did I forget Abu Ghraib!

6.We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

Well, they sure tried. Remember the dog and pony show on Sunday Morning - and who can forget the absurd justification for the invasion of Iraq by Colon Powell.

7.After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

Imbedded News Reporters and video tape prevented more lies and excuses. Better to invent a surge and kill more people then to admit the fubar and save lives and treasure.

8.We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

No truer words were ever uttered. Of course GWB promised he would not engage in nation building. Sadly, a true statement too 'cause his actions destroyed Iraq by igniting sectarian violence. Is civil war the next news we'll hear?

9.We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

Oh but wait. We did have a coalition of the willing. Well, with some arm twisting and back door promises several dozen nations sent in several dozen personnel - only England sent a large number of combat troops.

10.We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

Had the Clinton Policy of containment been continued the world would be a safer place, thousands of American families wouldn't have suffered the loss of a loved one and thousands of young men and women would not today be suffering wound, amputations and from PTSD.

11.Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

See all of the above.

Now, compare the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration by the measure of the eleven sage points.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
George Santayana

The comments in RED are my response to Windbag.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From Robert McNamara's 1995 book "In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam".

1.We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

Did GWB and his Administration misjudge who would be their adversaries when they decided to invade and occupy Iraq? Of course they did, in their own words:

"You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time" Or with the equipment to allow our men and women in uniform to survive attacks riding in a less than armored vehicle.

2.We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

Self evident. How many of our troops died or were seriously/permanently wounded after GWB declared "Mission Accomplished"?

3, We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

Again, self evident. GWB and his Administration never considered a civil war among factions held in check by Saddam, or that sectarian violence would have such an impact on our occupation.

4.Our misjudgments of friend and foe, alike, reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

Absolutely. From GWB first calling his quest a crusade our profound ignorance of Islam and the Iraqi people was apparent.

5.We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces, and doctrine. We failed, as well, to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

As noted, vulnerable Humvees and the use of combat troops as police. Dumb, really dumb. Oh, did I forget Abu Ghraib!

6.We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

Well, they sure tried. Remember the dog and pony show on Sunday Morning - and who can forget the absurd justification for the invasion of Iraq by Colon Powell.

7.After the action got under way, and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening, and why we were doing what we did.

Imbedded News Reporters and video tape prevented more lies and excuses. Better to invent a surge and kill more people then to admit the fubar and save lives and treasure.

8.We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

No truer words were ever uttered. Of course GWB promised he would not engage in nation building. Sadly, a true statement too 'cause his actions destroyed Iraq by igniting sectarian violence. Is civil war the next news we'll hear?

9.We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

Oh but wait. We did have a coalition of the willing. Well, with some arm twisting and back door promises several dozen nations sent in several dozen personnel - only England sent a large number of combat troops.

10.We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

Had the Clinton Policy of containment been continued the world would be a safer place, thousands of American families wouldn't have suffered the loss of a loved one and thousands of young men and women would not today be suffering wound, amputations and from PTSD.

11.Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.

See all of the above.

Now, compare the George W. Bush Administration and the Obama Administration by the measure of the eleven sage points.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"
George Santayana

The comments in RED are my response to Windbag.

None of which address anything I said about Obama, which proves you aren't here to have an honest discussion.

By the way, omniscient does not mean "Never breaks a promise," or, if you prefer, never tells a lie.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why should or would I address your ridiculous comments? The Iraq War cost American families dearly, and the taxpayer a hell of a lot of money. To compare any mistakes made in Syria or Libya with the on going fiasco that is Iraq is absurd.

Had Bush stayed in Afghanistan and finished the job he might have been a successful president, at least on the issue of foreign policy. That he left Afghanistan undone to prosecute a war of choice which left nearly 5,000 of our service personnel dead, and ++,+++ injured can never be forgiven. You can spin it and you will, but that simply proves what a partisan hack you are.

I won't argue and never have that Obama has done everything well, he hasn't. But Bush was and will remain in history as one of the biggest fuck ups to ever hold the office of POTUS.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why should or would I address your ridiculous comments? The Iraq War cost American families dearly, and the taxpayer a hell of a lot of money. To compare any mistakes made in Syria or Libya with the on going fiasco that is Iraq is absurd.

Had Bush stayed in Afghanistan and finished the job he might have been a successful president, at least on the issue of foreign policy. That he left Afghanistan undone to prosecute a war of choice which left nearly 5,000 of our service personnel dead, and ++,+++ injured can never be forgiven. You can spin it and you will, but that simply proves what a partisan hack you are.

I won't argue and never have that Obama has done everything well, he hasn't. But Bush was and will remain in history as one of the biggest fuck ups to ever hold the office of POTUS.

The "ridiculous" comment I made was that, using your points, I could prove that Obama is worse than Bush. I then asked if you were willing to discuss it honestly, and you went out of your way to challenge me to back up my claim. I did so, and now you are refusing to address them.

If I did the same thing you would claim it proved you won.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why should or would I address your ridiculous comments? The Iraq War cost American families dearly, and the taxpayer a hell of a lot of money. To compare any mistakes made in Syria or Libya with the on going fiasco that is Iraq is absurd.

Had Bush stayed in Afghanistan and finished the job he might have been a successful president, at least on the issue of foreign policy. That he left Afghanistan undone to prosecute a war of choice which left nearly 5,000 of our service personnel dead, and ++,+++ injured can never be forgiven. You can spin it and you will, but that simply proves what a partisan hack you are.

I won't argue and never have that Obama has done everything well, he hasn't. But Bush was and will remain in history as one of the biggest fuck ups to ever hold the office of POTUS.

The "ridiculous" comment I made was that, using your points, I could prove that Obama is worse than Bush. I then asked if you were willing to discuss it honestly, and you went out of your way to challenge me to back up my claim. I did so, and now you are refusing to address them.

If I did the same thing you would claim it proved you won.

The only thing I'll claim is you're a moron, as well as a partisan hack. I don't need to "win", I know when I'm dealing with a moron, and a hack. I've known that every since I read your first post and I stand by my comment: "Bush was and will remain in history as one of the biggest fuck ups to ever hold the office of POTUS".

 

[whitehall]

McNamara was JFK and LBJ's secretary of defense. Did he think that Vietnam was a learning experience? You don't get to confess your sins and blame it on future generations. LBJ and McNamara set up the rules so that Americans would win every battle and still lose the war. McNamara was the top guy in the JFK and LBJ administration and he suddenly has an epiphany in 1995 that everything he did was a mistake? LBJ created a fake crisis in Tonkin Gulf that got us into Vietnam. George Bush asked congress for permission to use Troops in Iraq to enforce UN sanctions and he gave Saddam almost a year to comply. Under president Bush American Troops went farther and faster and took more real estate with less casualties than any other conflict even while democrats who had endorsed the mission were undermining it. LBJ set up the rules so that Americans could not win the war. Today we are in the same situation in Afghanistan as we were in Vietnam. The president set up the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still come home in body bags.

 

[Wry Catcher]

McNamara was JFK and LBJ's secretary of defense. Did he think that Vietnam was a learning experience? You don't get to confess your sins and blame it on future generations. LBJ and McNamara set up the rules so that Americans would win every battle and still lose the war. McNamara was the top guy in the JFK and LBJ administration and he suddenly has an epiphany in 1995 that everything he did was a mistake? LBJ created a fake crisis in Tonkin Gulf that got us into Vietnam. George Bush asked congress for permission to use Troops in Iraq to enforce UN sanctions and he gave Saddam almost a year to comply. Under president Bush American Troops went farther and faster and took more real estate with less casualties than any other conflict even while democrats who had endorsed the mission were undermining it. LBJ set up the rules so that Americans could not win the war. Today we are in the same situation in Afghanistan as we were in Vietnam. The president set up the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still come home in body bags.

"In 1943, McNamara entered the U.S. Army Air Corps, putting his sharp analytical skills and talent for statistics to work on military situations. Not long after the war, he and nine other members from the army's statistical control group went to work for Henry Ford II at the Ford Motor Company."

See: Robert S. McNamara Biography - Facts, Birthday, Life Story - Biography.com

You too are a moron. How old are you? I was on active duty in 1967, 1968 & 1969.

 

[whitehall]

McNamara was JFK and LBJ's secretary of defense. Did he think that Vietnam was a learning experience? You don't get to confess your sins and blame it on future generations. LBJ and McNamara set up the rules so that Americans would win every battle and still lose the war. McNamara was the top guy in the JFK and LBJ administration and he suddenly has an epiphany in 1995 that everything he did was a mistake? LBJ created a fake crisis in Tonkin Gulf that got us into Vietnam. George Bush asked congress for permission to use Troops in Iraq to enforce UN sanctions and he gave Saddam almost a year to comply. Under president Bush American Troops went farther and faster and took more real estate with less casualties than any other conflict even while democrats who had endorsed the mission were undermining it. LBJ set up the rules so that Americans could not win the war. Today we are in the same situation in Afghanistan as we were in Vietnam. The president set up the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still come home in body bags.

"In 1943, McNamara entered the U.S. Army Air Corps, putting his sharp analytical skills and talent for statistics to work on military situations. Not long after the war, he and nine other members from the army's statistical control group went to work for Henry Ford II at the Ford Motor Company."

See: Robert S. McNamara Biography - Facts, Birthday, Life Story - Biography.com

You too are a moron. How old are you? I was on active duty in 1967, 1968 & 1969.

What's the point? Does the radical left think that McNamara's alleged analytical skill in making cars turned him into a Military genius? What was JFK thinking when he chose a obscure Veteran who was in the business of selling Fords as the freaking secretary of defense?

 

[Wry Catcher]

McNamara was JFK and LBJ's secretary of defense. Did he think that Vietnam was a learning experience? You don't get to confess your sins and blame it on future generations. LBJ and McNamara set up the rules so that Americans would win every battle and still lose the war. McNamara was the top guy in the JFK and LBJ administration and he suddenly has an epiphany in 1995 that everything he did was a mistake? LBJ created a fake crisis in Tonkin Gulf that got us into Vietnam. George Bush asked congress for permission to use Troops in Iraq to enforce UN sanctions and he gave Saddam almost a year to comply. Under president Bush American Troops went farther and faster and took more real estate with less casualties than any other conflict even while democrats who had endorsed the mission were undermining it. LBJ set up the rules so that Americans could not win the war. Today we are in the same situation in Afghanistan as we were in Vietnam. The president set up the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still come home in body bags.

"In 1943, McNamara entered the U.S. Army Air Corps, putting his sharp analytical skills and talent for statistics to work on military situations. Not long after the war, he and nine other members from the army's statistical control group went to work for Henry Ford II at the Ford Motor Company."

See: Robert S. McNamara Biography - Facts, Birthday, Life Story - Biography.com

You too are a moron. How old are you? I was on active duty in 1967, 1968 & 1969.

What's the point? Does the radical left think that McNamara's alleged analytical skill in making cars turned him into a Military genius? What was JFK thinking when he chose a obscure Veteran who was in the business of selling Fords as the freaking secretary of defense?

Read his bio. BTW, the radical left isn't as radical as the far right, of which you seem to be a card carrying member.