Left vs Right, or Liberty vs Control?

task0778

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2017
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Texas hill country
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.
people keep incorrectly using the european system/scale,, when the founders created the american experiment the two sides were authoritarian left verses the individual freedom right,,,
 
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It has always been about liberty vs. control.....That's why I left the worthless and weak control freak GOP in '95.

Understood, but such as it is the GOP is still way better than the fucked up Democrats. The way I see it, I vote against them rather than for the GOP.
No they're not....They're merely taking the scenic route on the road to serfdom while the democrats are running on the interstate...The destination remains the same.

Maybe the populist movement will be able to pare back a lot of this general proclivity....We will see.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??

Your description of what you believe doesn't make me anything. Why would you think it would?
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??

Your description of what you believe doesn't make me anything. Why would you think it would?
so you dont want to answer,,, why would that be??
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??

Your description of what you believe doesn't make me anything. Why would you think it would?
so you dont want to answer,,, why would that be??

You asked a stupid question.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??

Your description of what you believe doesn't make me anything. Why would you think it would?
so you dont want to answer,,, why would that be??

You asked a stupid question.
only if youre guilty of something you dont want other people to know,,
 
No they're not....They're merely taking the scenic route on the road to serfdom while the democrats are running on the interstate...The destination remains the same.

Yeah, but the Dems are the ones talking about eliminating the filibuster, packing the SCOTUS, admitting DC and maybe Puerto Rico as new states, the Green New Deal, and all that other shit. At least with the GOP, whatever they do can be undone, as we see with Biden undoing everything Trump did. I think it sucks, but at least Trump did not forever change the way our gov't works by making it harder for the opposing party to win. And let's leave out the discussion about election fraud, that ain't what I'm talking about.

I liked the way Bill Barr ran the DOJ, he didn't use it a a political weapon the way Obama did. I don't want to vote in the party that plays politics with every gov't agency they can. Okay, maybe the GOP did it too but not to the extent that the Dems did, and I think we should vote against them. The GOP may not be a bunch of angels, but IMHO they are sure as hell better than the alternative.
 
Using 'Race' and 'Safety Nets', to say personal liberty isn't possible or desired is about as low as it gets. With 'Race' is is pretty clear why this is an agregious argument, and it is the same with 'safety nets.' You don't have to redistribute wealth to write smart legislation to help widows or cancer patients. The Washingon Lifers just don't care because they don't get payed to fix things.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

OK. that makes you an anarchist.
but what does it make you???

and whats wrong with anarchy??? if you dont harm or steal from others what business is it of mine??

Your description of what you believe doesn't make me anything. Why would you think it would?
so you dont want to answer,,, why would that be??

You asked a stupid question.
only if youre guilty of something you dont want other people to know,,

Oh God!!! The OP diatribe about what he believes has somehow morphed into you accusing me of having something to hide. Spare me, dumb ass.
 
" Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. "
Change "because" to "if" and there might be some point to this. In reality, the whole proposition is falsely based on a proposition that social context is something humans can be taken out of.
Yeah, I know, feeding the troll, but there you go.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.
people keep incorrectly using the european system/scale,, when the founders created the american experiment the two sides were authoritarian left verses the individual freedom right,,,

That's weird...everyone else considers the 'American Experiment' to be about Democracy vs. Monarchy. Or are you saying that King George V was a leftist?

:abgg2q.jpg:
 
" Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. "
Change "because" to "if" and there might be some point to this. In reality, the whole proposition is falsely based on a proposition that social context is something humans can be taken out of.
Yeah, I know, feeding the troll, but there you go.
Define the nebulous "social context".
 
No they're not....They're merely taking the scenic route on the road to serfdom while the democrats are running on the interstate...The destination remains the same.

Yeah, but the Dems are the ones talking about eliminating the filibuster, packing the SCOTUS, admitting DC and maybe Puerto Rico as new states, the Green New Deal, and all that other shit. At least with the GOP, whatever they do can be undone, as we see with Biden undoing everything Trump did. I think it sucks, but at least Trump did not forever change the way our gov't works by making it harder for the opposing party to win. And let's leave out the discussion about election fraud, that ain't what I'm talking about.

I liked the way Bill Barr ran the DOJ, he didn't use it a a political weapon the way Obama did. I don't want to vote in the party that plays politics with every gov't agency they can. Okay, maybe the GOP did it too but not to the extent that the Dems did, and I think we should vote against them. The GOP may not be a bunch of angels, but IMHO they are sure as hell better than the alternative.
"Yeahbut" is irrelevant....In fact, it concedes to my point....The current establishment GOP is no better, as the destination of utter despotism remains the same.
 
Instead of mapping ideologies based on their social beliefs, we should map ideologies based on how much they seek to impose their social beliefs on others. In other words, ideas should be judged based on how much choice they leave to the citizen and how much they allow individuals to live by their lifestyle and morals. One side of this proposed spectrum allows individuals to live by their accords and ideals, whereas the other seeks to enforce their own judgements on the lives of others.

The first side of this spectrum is known as “individualism.” As Ayn Rand writes, “Individualism regards man… as an independent, sovereign entity who possesses an inalienable right to his own life, a right derived from his nature as a rational being.”

Individualism believes that every person, because they are rational and equal, are independent beings entitled to the largest possible domain of freedom. This freedom of choice and action only stops when it directly conflicts with the ability of others to do the same, mainly if it intrudes upon their life, liberty, or property.

To an individualist, the maximum role of the government is to protect our lives, liberty, and property. If the government were to perform an additional task, whether it be for “progressive” or “conservative” ends, it would be, in the words of Frédéric Bastiat, “legalized plunder.”

Because the government is funded by taxation, and taxation is the forced confiscation of some of our property, the individualist believes that the government should at most perform tasks that defend and enable individual freedom.

Ultimately, individualism is the idea that we shouldn’t impose a way of life or certain ideas on the rest of society. It believes that humans are a diverse, intricate species that should have the freedom to make their own choices. We should be free to choose and act as our hearts desire, so long as such choices don’t directly conflict with others’ rights to do the same.


The other side of this spectrum is “collectivism,” and it encompasses most of the beliefs we are commonly exposed to. Whether it be conservatism, progressivism, or socialism, collectivism involves the imposition of a certain belief or point of view on the rest of society.

Whereas the key tenet of individualism is the maximization of freedom in order to live by one’s own morals, a key tenet of collectivist ideologies is the willingness to use coercive means to promote a desired social or economic agenda. This may come in two forms. The government might subsidize activities they endorse, or they might restrict people’s freedom through regulations for activities they disapprove of.

Unfortunately, this tendency is ubiquitous in our current political landscape, existing on both sides of the left-right spectrum.

The right side of the modern political spectrum, although it does tend to value individualist ideas such as constitutionalism and economic freedom, is nevertheless drawn to certain collectivist tendencies. Conservatives have supported tariffs, expanded military power, supported the criminalization of same sex marriage, and embraced policies such as the War on Drugs.

With that said, the left side of the spectrum is arguably worse, arguing for universal healthcare, “free” college, an expanded welfare state, gun control measures, and as a result, increased taxation. The point is, both conservative and progressive causes often involve the imposition of an idea over the entire populace, either by forcing the public to pay for a policy or by restricting their freedom of choice.

Universal healthcare, “free” college, the expansion of military power, and so forth are all collectivist because they seek to promote the “common good” by forcing citizens to pay for it. This means that less of their money goes to purchasing the things that they actually want, and instead goes to funding things that they may not want or don’t benefit from.


We, as individuals, want to further our own interests, and we should be granted as much freedom as possible to pursue this end.

Our freedoms cannot be curtailed for some variant of the “common good,” because that necessarily infers that someone decides what the “common good” is, and allows their decisions to triumph over the rights of individuals—the protection of which is the very purpose of government.



Me, I throw my support behind the Individualism side, choices are good. I believe in the value of the work ethic, and I think a person's self esteem is reduced without it. And I really don't like somebody else telling me what is or isn't in my best interests and I don't need the current cancel culture that restricts what you can say or write either.

Without going line by line to debunk your statement, here are a few points of objection:

1. Ayn Rand was an idiot.

2. The Government is not the only entity that is capable of limiting people's freedoms. Individuals are FAR more brutal in abusing people than modern governments. A primary reason for the existence of modern government is to protect people from abusive individuals. It has been said "Don't fear the Government, fear the wealthy".

3. If you don't want to pay taxes, then do not do transactions in U.S. dollars. Since the U.S. dollar is a note created by the U.S. government, it is the government that controls how it is used and how much of it must be returned to the government. Write your own notes if you'd like - do not accept U.S. dollars. Otherwise STFU and pay your taxes!

4. All societies are somewhat collectivist...some are extremely collectivist. But collectives consists of individuals so it's really individuals that make the rules of the collective. If you don't like the collectives rules, then move elsewhere. You can live deep in the Amazon or Northern Alaska and be as much of an individual as you'd like.

5. Most people that claim to be individualistic just want the benefits of living in a collective society while refusing to accept the responsibilities that are inherent with living in that society. They want the benefits born from taxation, but they do not want to pay taxes....they try to make everyone else that does pay taxes their slaves. They want to ride on Government built highways, enjoy Government law enforcement and security, have the government come to their rescue when natural disasters strike, enjoy the benefits of Government sponsered communication systems...etc...they are BIG BABIES!!!! (BTW - You're enjoying a government created communications system now)

6. Ayn Rand was an IDIOT!!!
 

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