Lee Atwater

[CSM]

The OP is referring to Frontline, the PBS documentary-style series. Frontline is IMHO one of the most objective and frank programs on television period. I didn't watch last night but wanted to. The wife vetoed it.

It is not the documentary itself that raises questions but the OP's interpretation of it. I saw the documentary in question. I did not reach the same conclusions that the OP did (for example: "Anyways, watch the documentary. It might enlighten you as to how the GOP appeals to our lowest common denominator, and that shit works on people like you. Liberals are MUCH better people than Conservatives. Seriously.") Of course, I have not have the lobotomy required when registers as a Democrat. (I know, I know....couldn't resist poking fun though.)

 

[9 Volt]

It is not the documentary itself that raises questions but the OP's interpretation of it. I saw the documentary in question. I did not reach the same conclusions that the OP did (for example: "Anyways, watch the documentary. It might enlighten you as to how the GOP appeals to our lowest common denominator, and that shit works on people like you. Liberals are MUCH better people than Conservatives. Seriously.") Of course, I have not have the lobotomy required when registers as a Democrat. (I know, I know....couldn't resist poking fun though.)

I understand. Sometimes the truth of corruption (which is prolific in Washington regardless of the party) sends people running for the shelter of their chosen ideologies. In this case, the op freaked out and started pointing fingers.

 

[CSM]

I understand. Sometimes the truth of corruption (which is prolific in Washington regardless of the party) sends people running for the shelter of their chosen ideologies. In this case, the op freaked out and started pointing fingers.

It is my belief that corruption will always exist in government. We can quibble about "degrees" but it will be there always.

 

[sealybobo]

Kind of says it all. You validate my opinion of you with each post. I appreciate the laughs you provide though.


By the way, just so you know, you gave me positive rep...I am sure you meant to neg rep me...might wann fix that.

No, I meant to give you a positive rep. I'm not angry nor am I offended. I truly have fun coming here and I think you burned me so I gave you props for being witty.

And I'll admit, my arguments are weak today. I am sick and should have taken notes on that Lee Atwater piece last night. It was very interesting.

After Obama won, I don't have as much to say. I know that Bush is hamstringing Obama on the transition, despite how nice he seemed when he greeted Obama the other day and showed him around. I know Bush is going to veto any bailout for the Big 3. But I just don't have enough information so right now I'm just speculating.

But as far as the documentary, it illustrates perfectly the difference between dems and reps. Republicans have mastered dirty politics. And it explained how the GOP have used racism and religion to divide us. Can you deny that goes on? And SOUTHERN REPUBLICANS explained how they feel that Northern Liberals think they/we are better than they are. And it explained how Lee Atwater mastered the SLOW PLAY. In other words, talk like a simple country bumpkin hick, but in reality, he's the smartest one in the room. At least the sneakiest.

And I'm not saying that Dems are angels, but there is clearly a difference in how Dems campaign vs. how Republicans campaign. Reps are much dirtier/cruel/liars. Look at Elizabeth Dole. She just lost because she tried to say her opponent was godless. Which I find funny because Reagan beat her husband with dirty politics. So maybe we are waking up to the games politicians play. At least the blue states. The states that are still red I fear will never vote democratic. I mean, what would the GOP have to do in order to lose West Virginia?

And hearing republicans admit and explain how they play dirty politics might open your eyes. Clearly you don't take anything I say seriously.

You get defensive when I'm not saying anything that you probably don't already know. You just won't admit it to me.

Just like all the shit I've been screaming for 8 years now about Bush and Tom Delay. In years to come, documentaries will be done on these criminals. And of course I will watch and you won't. And then you'll call me a nut/idiot/partisan hack. When the reality is, I'm paying a lot closer attention than you.

Anyways, you could at least throw me a bone and admit/acknowledge that the GOP are much better at playing dirty politics than the Dems. Kerry didn't play dirty politics. Gore didn't. Obama didn't. Carter didn't. Dukakis didn't. Clinton didn't. But each of them had to deal with Atwater/Rove.

They said last night if Lee were healthy during the Clinton/Bush election, Clinton would not have won. They were all set to go after Clinton in a negative campaign and then Lee got sick.

I guess it just makes me mad because dirty politics work. God forbid we focus on the real issues/topics that are important.

Even HW Bush and Barbara didn't trust Atwater. But guess who became his best buddy? That's right, GW Bush. And watching GW back then in all his arrogance made me sick. To think that drunk loser became the president. That's why Republicans make me sick. They would vote for a tool like that?

 

[CSM]

No, I meant to give you a positive rep. I'm not angry nor am I offended. I truly have fun coming here and I think you burned me so I gave you props for being witty.

And I'll admit, my arguments are weak today. I am sick and should have taken notes on that Lee Atwater piece last night. It was very interesting.

After Obama won, I don't have as much to say. I know that Bush is hamstringing Obama on the transition, despite how nice he seemed when he greeted Obama the other day and showed him around. I know Bush is going to veto any bailout for the Big 3. But I just don't have enough information so right now I'm just speculating.

But as far as the documentary, it illustrates perfectly the difference between dems and reps. Republicans have mastered dirty politics. And it explained how the GOP have used racism and religion to divide us. Can you deny that goes on? And SOUTHERN REPUBLICANS explained how they feel that Northern Liberals think they/we are better than they are. And it explained how Lee Atwater mastered the SLOW PLAY. In other words, talk like a simple country bumpkin hick, but in reality, he's the smartest one in the room. At least the sneakiest.

And I'm not saying that Dems are angels, but there is clearly a difference in how Dems campaign vs. how Republicans campaign. Reps are much dirtier/cruel/liars. Look at Elizabeth Dole. She just lost because she tried to say her opponent was godless. Which I find funny because Reagan beat her husband with dirty politics. So maybe we are waking up to the games politicians play. At least the blue states. The states that are still red I fear will never vote democratic. I mean, what would the GOP have to do in order to lose West Virginia?

And hearing republicans admit and explain how they play dirty politics might open your eyes. Clearly you don't take anything I say seriously.

You get defensive when I'm not saying anything that you probably don't already know. You just won't admit it to me.

Just like all the shit I've been screaming for 8 years now about Bush and Tom Delay. In years to come, documentaries will be done on these criminals. And of course I will watch and you won't. And then you'll call me a nut/idiot/partisan hack. When the reality is, I'm paying a lot closer attention than you.

Anyways, you could at least throw me a bone and admit/acknowledge that the GOP are much better at playing dirty politics than the Dems. Kerry didn't play dirty politics. Gore didn't. Obama didn't. Carter didn't. Dukakis didn't. Clinton didn't. But each of them had to deal with Atwater/Rove.

They said last night if Lee were healthy during the Clinton/Bush election, Clinton would not have won. They were all set to go after Clinton in a negative campaign and then Lee got sick.

I guess it just makes me mad because dirty politics work. God forbid we focus on the real issues/topics that are important.

Even HW Bush and Barbara didn't trust Atwater. But guess who became his best buddy? That's right, GW Bush. And watching GW back then in all his arrogance made me sick. To think that drunk loser became the president. That's why Republicans make me sick. They would vote for a tool like that?

Here it is in a nutshell. Politicians play dirty politics... period. The fact that you even try to separate the use of such along party lines is what makes me take you less seriously than you presume you deserve.

How do you know that Bush is hamstinging Obama? You are assuming that is the case yet have no evidence of such. At least you admit you are speculating and that is one point for you.

You ascribe certain characteristics to Bush based on something he did in his youth. Should we ascribe characteristics to Obama based on the same criteria?

The same standards you apply to Republicans should be applied with the same vigor and passion you display in your posts to the Democrats. If you did that then we would have a basis for discussion. Anything less than that tells me you are not serious but rather a partisan (if not niave) parrot.

 

[9 Volt]

It is my belief that corruption will always exist in government. We can quibble about "degrees" but it will be there always.

Agreed.

 

[Toro]

PS. Any Republican who thinks there is no difference between Dems and Reps, watch this documentary. You guys invented dirty politics. Or you mastered it.

Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Both sides use attack ads but my experience has been that the GOP is way slimier.

For example

In 2002, Cleland lost his bid for a second Senate term to Representative Saxby Chambliss. Supporters blamed a Chambliss TV ad featuring the likenesses of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, while criticizing Cleland's votes against homeland security measures.[8] The ad, which Cleland supporters claimed questioned the senator's patriotism[9], was removed after protests from prominent politicians including Republicans like John McCain and Chuck Hagel.[10] Chambliss supporters claimed the ad didn't question Cleland's patriotism, but rather his judgment.[11]

Max Cleland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKFYpd0q9nE]YouTube - Chambliss Ad (Cleland)[/ame]

 

[sealybobo]

Here it is in a nutshell. Politicians play dirty politics... period. The fact that you even try to separate the use of such along party lines is what makes me take you less seriously than you presume you deserve.

How do you know that Bush is hamstinging Obama? You are assuming that is the case yet have no evidence of such. At least you admit you are speculating and that is one point for you.

You ascribe certain characteristics to Bush based on something he did in his youth. Should we ascribe characteristics to Obama based on the same criteria?

The same standards you apply to Republicans should be applied with the same vigor and passion you display in your posts to the Democrats. If you did that then we would have a basis for discussion. Anything less than that tells me you are not serious but rather a partisan (if not niave) parrot.

Oh I am definately more anti GOP than I am anti Dem. Sorry, that won't change. Because they aren't apples to apples. They both might be fruit, but they are still different fruits.

But, ok I'll give you this. Hillary tried playing dirty politics on Obama.

And maybe I'm just jealous because the GOP are better at dirty politics.

Or maybe it's the red neck poor uneducated voters that bother me. Voting against the better candidate because he's jewish, or black.

I think George Carlin said it best.

Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'"

 

[CSM]

Agreed.

The only thing that will curtail corruption in the US government is an aware and educated public with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to those who think they have the power by virtue of elected (and/or appointed) office.

My frustration is with the US citizen who formulates personal political philosophy based on soundbites and political propaganda. I see it all over these boards from both "sides". While I hardly believe that the psoters on this board represent the entirety of political though in the US I do think they are partially representative of same.

It takes real work and research to dig out the facts, weed out the rhetoric, and form a solid opinion based on fact rather than rumor or conjecture. I always held the belief that leaders cannot possibly make sound decisions unless they have the facts. Even with the facts at hand, leaders MIGHT (and sometimes do) make poor decisions but without them they will NEVER make good decisions.

 

[CSM]

Or maybe it's the red neck poor uneducated voters that bother me. Voting against the better candidate because he's jewish, or black.

I dont know about the "redneck" part (depends on your definition of redneck) but the rest I can agree with.

 

[sealybobo]

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Both sides use attack ads but my experience has been that the GOP is way slimier.

For example



Max Cleland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YouTube - Chambliss Ad (Cleland)

And I'm not trying to be a dick or be outragous. It seems pretty obvious that the GOP are the dirtier politicians. But I guess the same way they think I'm crazy because I think the dems are better people, they probably think I'm crazy for thinking there's any difference.

 

[9 Volt]

The only thing that will curtail corruption in the US government is an aware and educated public with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to those who think they have the power by virtue of elected (and/or appointed) office.

My frustration is with the US citizen who formulates personal political philosophy based on soundbites and political propaganda. I see it all over these boards from both "sides". While I hardly believe that the psoters on this board represent the entirety of political though in the US I do think they are partially representative of same.

It takes real work and research to dig out the facts, weed out the rhetoric, and form a solid opinion based on fact rather than rumor or conjecture. I always held the belief that leaders cannot possibly make sound decisions unless they have the facts. Even with the facts at hand, leaders MIGHT (and sometimes do) make poor decisions but without them they will NEVER make good decisions.

CSM, I hate to tell you this but; The posters on this site are probably a fair representation of the upper crust of American voters. We've built a nation of ravenous consumers who buy what's being sold to them and most vote that way too. The majority of voters I know couldn't even participate in most threads on this board for lack of any real knowledge of government process, economics, or anything else which affects them. It's sad but, I think, true. I say Kudos to those who care enough to make the time to engage in any political discussion, period.

 

[sealybobo]

I dont know about the "redneck" part (depends on your definition of redneck) but the rest I can agree with.

I'm talking about the Mason Dixon line. The GOP use race to divide the north from the south.

Civil Rights is a good term from where I come from.

How do white people in Kentucky or Tennessee feel about Civil Rights?

And think about this. Hillary killed Obama in W. Virginia. How did she do it? She appealed to poor white racists. Obama said they cling to guns and God to deal with their miserable existance of being poor white trash. He was right.

And they don't want a black guy to be President because then who are they better than?

 

[CSM]

CSM, I hate to tell you this but; The posters on this site are probably a fair representation of the upper crust of American voters. We've built a nation of ravenous consumers who buy what's being sold to them and most vote that way too. The majority of voters I know couldn't even participate in most threads on this board for lack of any real knowledge of government process, economics, or anything else which affects them. It's sad but, I think, true. I say Kudos to those who care enough to make the time to engage in any political discussion, period.

There is that. Except for obvious trolls, at least the posters on this board take the time to try to engage (some with an open mind, some with a mind so open everything falls out; some with a closed mind, some with a minds so closed nothing gets in; and a few somewhere between those two extremes).

For me, when the discussion gets down to "you're a moron!" and "you are an idiot!" is when I leave the thread. There are times when I just can't resist stirring the pot but that only happen rarely. Some threads start out that way and I don't even bother to comment (thus long periods when I don't post at all).

 

[9 Volt]

I'm talking about the Mason Dixon line. The GOP use race to divide the north from the south.

Civil Rights is a good term from where I come from.

How do white people in Kentucky or Tennessee feel about Civil Rights?

And think about this. Hillary killed Obama in W. Virginia. How did she do it? She appealed to poor white racists. Obama said they cling to guns and God to deal with their miserable existance of being poor white trash. He was right.

And they don't want a black guy to be President because then who are they better than?

It depends on where those white people in Kentucky or Tennessee live. It's been the rural, white counties that have turned these states red, and yet if you spend any time in cities like Nashville or Louisville you'll find mostly progressive whites living in these places. In fact, Nashville is considered by most, the most liberal city in the south.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'm talking about the Mason Dixon line. The GOP use race to divide the north from the south.

Civil Rights is a good term from where I come from.

How do white people in Kentucky or Tennessee feel about Civil Rights?

And think about this. Hillary killed Obama in W. Virginia. How did she do it? She appealed to poor white racists. Obama said they cling to guns and God to deal with their miserable existance of being poor white trash. He was right.

And they don't want a black guy to be President because then who are they better than?

As compared to the urban 'folk' who are racist against whites.. clinging to their concepts of entitlement and revenge to deal with their miserable existence of being poor inner city trash?

See how easy that is?

 

[CSM]

I'm talking about the Mason Dixon line. The GOP use race to divide the north from the south.

Civil Rights is a good term from where I come from.

How do white people in Kentucky or Tennessee feel about Civil Rights?

And think about this. Hillary killed Obama in W. Virginia. How did she do it? She appealed to poor white racists. Obama said they cling to guns and God to deal with their miserable existance of being poor white trash. He was right.

And they don't want a black guy to be President because then who are they better than?

Obama was right? Does that mean that anyone who owns a gun or holds religious beliefs (or both) is bitter and living a "miserable existence" being "poor white trash"? Do you think no black folks own guns and believe in God? I assert that there are. Does that make them poor black trash living a miserable existence?

Are you saying that everyone in West Virginia is a racist? Are there no blacks in West Virginia? or are the blacks there racist too?

Do you get the point I am trying to make? The generalizations that you make in trying to present your views just don't hold water any more than my generalizations about all Dems being liars or have alll had a lobotomy. he difference between myself and you making such generalizations is that you indicate you believe them ... my generalizations are mostly tongue-in-cheek.

 

[sealybobo]

It depends on where those white people in Kentucky or Tennessee live. It's been the rural, white counties that have turned these states red, and yet if you spend any time in cities like Nashville or Louisville you'll find mostly progressive whites living in these places. In fact, Nashville is considered by most, the most liberal city in the south.

Al Gore came from there, so I can see that.

But then again, he lost Tennessee too.

I'm sure the reddest state has 40% liberals and the bluest states still have 40% conservatives.

I'm stereotyping of course.

 

[sealybobo]

As compared to the urban 'folk' who are racist against whites.. clinging to their concepts of entitlement and revenge to deal with their miserable existence of being poor inner city trash?

See how easy that is?

My only hope is that people stop falling for the crap that people like Lee Atwater and Karl Rove put out there.

Then we might actually elect the best leaders, not the best liars.

Luckily it didn't work on Obama and it backfired on Elizabeth Dole.

So if you are aware that poor inner city people vote ignorantly for democrats, I'm sure you will admit that the poor white south does the same for Republicans?

And at least the poor inner city people are voting for the right party financially. The poor white trash down south are voting for Republicans who are making them even poorer. And how do they continue to get thier votes? Because the morons cling to guns and religion.

Probably not the smartest thing for Obama to have said, but very true.

See, you can't be truthful and win elections. The people want to be lied to.

 

[sealybobo]

Obama was right? Does that mean that anyone who owns a gun or holds religious beliefs (or both) is bitter and living a "miserable existence" being "poor white trash"? Do you think no black folks own guns and believe in God? I assert that there are. Does that make them poor black trash living a miserable existence?

Are you saying that everyone in West Virginia is a racist? Are there no blacks in West Virginia? or are the blacks there racist too?

Do you get the point I am trying to make? The generalizations that you make in trying to present your views just don't hold water any more than my generalizations about all Dems being liars or have alll had a lobotomy. he difference between myself and you making such generalizations is that you indicate you believe them ... my generalizations are mostly tongue-in-cheek.

Oh I absolutely believe poor white people cling to guns and religion. Not all of them of course, but enough to make a state solid red, even though they are broke.

The GOP made the rich richer and the poor poorer. So how does the GOP hold on to these voters? Thru god, gays and guns, plus racism.


There are books written about how the GOP have done this over the years.

I myself thought Karl Rove came up with all this stuff, or mastered it, but it turns out this Lee Atwater is the original.

I think you can click on the link I provided at the beginning and watch some of the documentary.

I will love to discuss this with you after you have watched it.