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Lack Of "Personal Responsibility" - A Code Phrase, Perhaps? Perhaps.

George Costanza

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There is a thread out there right now asking what we should do for the children of irresponsible parents who, due to thier own failings, are unable to provide for their own children.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/114407-what-do-we-do-for-the-children-in-need.html

The idea is that, while the parents are irresponsible and therefore undeserving of anything, their children are innocent - so what about them?

And thus, the conservative theme of "personal responsibility," albeit somewhat obliquely, once again rears its ugly head.

"Personal responsibility" SOUNDS like a great thing to emphasize. Shouldn't everyone be personally repsponsible for their actions (or lack thereof)? One would certainly think so. How could anyone argue against that?

Unfortunately, as used by so many conservatives, "personal responsibility" is nothing more than a code phrase for: "I've got mine - screw you!" "Personal responsibility" seems to be always dragged out by many conservatives whenever the subject of government programs or welfare comes up. The recipiants of such programs are vilified as being undeserving of any government aid because, if they had just had some "personal responsiblity," none of this would be necessary.

Of course, the "this" is tax dollars going into the government programs and guess what is REALLY on the mind of those objecting to such programs - hint: it has noting to do with "personal responsibility."

It is SO easy for the "haves" to become morally judgmental toward the "have-nots" when it comes to such things as tax dollars going out to help the have-nots. Sure, there is such a thing as welfare fraud. But there is also such a thing as people who truly need welfare, and it has NOTHING to do with a lack of "personal responsibility."

So let's not be so hard on the "irresponsible" parents of children. It is entirely possible that the parents fall into the classification of those who really are in legitimate need of welfare - a need not caused by any perceived lack of "personal responsibility."
 
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Rambunctious

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I sure don't want to see children struggle to survive and thrive in our society however a quick check of American history will show that some of our greatest citizens lived through terrible childhoods. Instead of killing them their struggles made them stronger and led to great lives and great things for the world.
I will always support this nations commitment to helping the weakest among us but sometimes I wonder which road is more enlightening and rewarding the smooth one or the bumpy one.
Lets not help each other to death.
 

bucs90

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I sure don't want to see children struggle to survive and thrive in our society however a quick check of American history will show that some of our greatest citizens lived through terrible childhoods. Instead of killing them their struggles made them stronger and led to great lives and great things for the world.
I will always support this nations commitment to helping the weakest among us but sometimes I wonder which road is more enlightening and rewarding the smooth one or the bumpy one.
Lets not help each other to death.

I saw your USMC bulldog on your ID photo. I assume thats where you got your opinion that personal responsibility, tougness, and perseverance found in tough times will lead to ultimate success. I agree 100%. Although never in the military, I played college football for 4 years, and those 4 brutal football camps taught me more about life than anything I learned in a classroom. 5 weeks of hell, 4 times, pushing my body and mind to it's limits. A person learns in very difficult times how to push through, suck it up, and most importantly FIND A WAY within the rules to make it. Never quit. Never give up. And above all else, BELIEVE you will emerge victorious.

BUT......some people believe we need to eliminate tough times altogether through social justice and a massive welfare system. Along with what football taught me, I was raised by a single mom in a borderline poor household. Lived with mother and grandparents, and aunt, in a 3 bdrm home. We got by with family and hard work. Now, all of us enjoy middle-upper middle class lives.

But handouts never lead to success. Ever. It must be earned. In the military, in police, in sports, in business, and in life. Leftists have no concept of this ideal.
 

WillowTree

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There is a thread out there right now asking what we should do for the children of irresponsible parents who, due to thier own failings, are unable to provide for their own children.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/114407-what-do-we-do-for-the-children-in-need.html

The idea is that, while the parents are irresponsible and therefore undeserving of anything, their children are innocent - so what about them?

And thus, the conservative theme of "personal responsibility," albeit somewhat obliquely, once again rears its ugly head.

"Personal responsibility" SOUNDS like a great thing to emphasize. Shouldn't everyone be personally repsponsible for their actions (or lack thereof)? One would certainly think so. How could anyone argue against that?

Unfortunately, as used by so many conservatives, "personal responsibility" is nothing more than a code phrase for: "I've got mine - screw you!"bullshit "Personal responsibility" seems to be always dragged out by many conservatives whenever the subject of government programs or welfare comes up. The recipiants of such programs are vilified as being undeserving of any government aid because, if they had just had some "personal responsiblity," none of this would be necessary.

Of course, the "this" is tax dollars going into the government programs and guess what is REALLY on the mind of those objecting to such programs - hint: it has noting to do with "personal responsibility."

It is SO easy for the "haves" to become morally judgmental toward the "have-nots" when it comes to such things as tax dollars going out to help the have-nots. Sure, there is such a thing as welfare fraud. But there is also such a thing as people who truly need welfare, and it has NOTHING to do with a lack of "personal responsibility."

So let's not be so hard on the "irresponsible" parents of children. It is entirely possible that the parents fall into the classification of those who really are in legitimate need of welfare - a need not caused by any perceived lack of "personal responsibility."

what a bullshit rant. right now 50% of Americans drag the other 50% around on our backs. now what happens when the needy outnumber the willing to works?? you sound just as judgemental about people who are actually willing to get up off their asses and work how ever many jobs it takes to make their livings and put food on the table for their families.. too many now just want some "obama money" and you assholes expect us to take care of 1/5 the population of Mexico too.. why do you think a person who goes out and works his azz off 8 to 10 hours a day owes you a damn thing??
 

bucs90

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It is SO easy for the "haves" to become morally judgmental toward the "have-nots" when it comes to such things as tax dollars going out to help the have-nots. Sure, there is such a thing as welfare fraud. But there is also such a thing as people who truly need welfare, and it has NOTHING to do with a lack of "personal responsibility."

So let's not be so hard on the "irresponsible" parents of children. It is entirely possible that the parents fall into the classification of those who really are in legitimate need of welfare - a need not caused by any perceived lack of "personal responsibility."

Our "poor" live better than Europes middle class.
If taken seperate, the African American population of the USA would be among the 5 richest countries on Earth.

Our "poor" have an obesity problem. Fat. Overfed. Poor?
They also have cars, color TV, cell phones, washing machines, microwaves, refridgerators. They aren't living in dirt huts like Obama's relative in Africa whom he refuses to help (uncle I believe it is).

Our problem relating to our "poor" and "irresponsible" isn't an issue of true poverty, or true hunger, or true oppression. It's an issue of ENVY. They don't have much.....compared to middle and upper class AMERICANS. If they had the same wealth in Europe or Africa, or South America, our "poor" would be middle class or upper class.

So, drop the sympathetic pleas. It has nothing to do with poverty. It has everything to do with outright envy. Disgusting. So, yes, in fact, "Screw you, I got mine, you DON"T HAVE IT THAT BAD, stop bitching and improve your own situation yourself" is my true outlook.
 

bucs90

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what a bullshit rant. right now 50% of Americans drag the other 50% around on our backs. now what happens when the needy outnumber the willing to works?? you sound just as judgemental about people who are actually willing to get up off their asses and work how ever many jobs it takes to make their livings and put food on the table for their families.. too many now just want some "obama money" and you assholes expect us to take care of 1/5 the population of Mexico too.. why do you think a person who goes out and works his azz off 8 to 10 hours a day owes you a damn thing??

100% agree.

And the funny part? Those some "poor" souls he's throwing out as a sympathy magnet to justify stealing more money through taxes? Those SAME people are the one's we wait in line behind at the gas station while they play the lottery saying "Give me a number 4, three 7's, a number 2, three 10's, a Philly, and a Pick 3 Powerball" while holding a 24 pack of beer to purchase. Yeah, they're REALLY in need of welfare. If they saved the money they spend on lottery tickets each week, it' total probably $200 extra a month. Then add in that they CANCEL their cell phone, get a land line, and save another $75, then cancel CABLE TV and stick with basic channels, thats another $60, and of course get rid of the high price clothing and sneakers. Another $100 by shopping for clothes at Wal-Mart and Goodwill instead of the mall, add it all up, and how much saved? At least $250-400.

With $250-400 a month saved, what COULD they buy? A semester at community college. After 2 years, a 2 year tech degree and better job opportunity. EVENTUALLY, through saving and smart spending, and hard work, and sacrifice, they would be OUT OF POVERTY AND BE DOING WELL!!!


HOWEVER, why do all that when you can wait on Obama's stash and just bitch and moan about how nobody is doing anything for the poor.
 
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George Costanza

George Costanza

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what a bullshit rant. right now 50% of Americans drag the other 50% around on our backs. now what happens when the needy outnumber the willing to works?? you sound just as judgemental about people who are actually willing to get up off their asses and work how ever many jobs it takes to make their livings and put food on the table for their families.. too many now just want some "obama money" and you assholes expect us to take care of 1/5 the population of Mexico too.. why do you think a person who goes out and works his azz off 8 to 10 hours a day owes you a damn thing??

Thanks. I rest my case.
 

SpidermanTuba

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There is a thread out there right now asking what we should do for the children of irresponsible parents who, due to thier own failings, are unable to provide for their own children.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/114407-what-do-we-do-for-the-children-in-need.html

The idea is that, while the parents are irresponsible and therefore undeserving of anything, their children are innocent - so what about them?

And thus, the conservative theme of "personal responsibility," albeit somewhat obliquely, once again rears its ugly head.

"Personal responsibility" SOUNDS like a great thing to emphasize. Shouldn't everyone be personally repsponsible for their actions (or lack thereof)? One would certainly think so. How could anyone argue against that?

Unfortunately, as used by so many conservatives, "personal responsibility" is nothing more than a code phrase for: "I've got mine - screw you!" "Personal responsibility" seems to be always dragged out by many conservatives whenever the subject of government programs or welfare comes up. The recipiants of such programs are vilified as being undeserving of any government aid because, if they had just had some "personal responsiblity," none of this would be necessary.

Of course, the "this" is tax dollars going into the government programs and guess what is REALLY on the mind of those objecting to such programs - hint: it has noting to do with "personal responsibility."

It is SO easy for the "haves" to become morally judgmental toward the "have-nots" when it comes to such things as tax dollars going out to help the have-nots. Sure, there is such a thing as welfare fraud. But there is also such a thing as people who truly need welfare, and it has NOTHING to do with a lack of "personal responsibility."

So let's not be so hard on the "irresponsible" parents of children. It is entirely possible that the parents fall into the classification of those who really are in legitimate need of welfare - a need not caused by any perceived lack of "personal responsibility."



Excellent post Mr. Alexander!
 
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George Costanza

George Costanza

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I sure don't want to see children struggle to survive and thrive in our society however a quick check of American history will show that some of our greatest citizens lived through terrible childhoods. Instead of killing them their struggles made them stronger and led to great lives and great things for the world.
I will always support this nations commitment to helping the weakest among us but sometimes I wonder which road is more enlightening and rewarding the smooth one or the bumpy one.
Lets not help each other to death.

Well stated - but this isn't the thread about the children. That's the other one linked in the OP.
 

Oddball

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what a bullshit rant. right now 50% of Americans drag the other 50% around on our backs. now what happens when the needy outnumber the willing to works?? you sound just as judgemental about people who are actually willing to get up off their asses and work how ever many jobs it takes to make their livings and put food on the table for their families.. too many now just want some "obama money" and you assholes expect us to take care of 1/5 the population of Mexico too.. why do you think a person who goes out and works his azz off 8 to 10 hours a day owes you a damn thing??

Thanks. I rest my case.
...on a dried out sand pile. :lol:
 

Rambunctious

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I sure don't want to see children struggle to survive and thrive in our society however a quick check of American history will show that some of our greatest citizens lived through terrible childhoods. Instead of killing them their struggles made them stronger and led to great lives and great things for the world.
I will always support this nations commitment to helping the weakest among us but sometimes I wonder which road is more enlightening and rewarding the smooth one or the bumpy one.
Lets not help each other to death.

I saw your USMC bulldog on your ID photo. I assume that's where you got your opinion that personal responsibility, toughness, and perseverance found in tough times will lead to ultimate success. I agree 100%. Although never in the military, I played college football for 4 years, and those 4 brutal football camps taught me more about life than anything I learned in a classroom. 5 weeks of hell, 4 times, pushing my body and mind to it's limits. A person learns in very difficult times how to push through, suck it up, and most importantly FIND A WAY within the rules to make it. Never quit. Never give up. And above all else, BELIEVE you will emerge victorious.

BUT......some people believe we need to eliminate tough times altogether through social justice and a massive welfare system. Along with what football taught me, I was raised by a single mom in a borderline poor household. Lived with mother and grandparents, and aunt, in a 3 bdrm home. We got by with family and hard work. Now, all of us enjoy middle-upper middle class lives.

But handouts never lead to success. Ever. It must be earned. In the military, in police, in sports, in business, and in life. Leftists have no concept of this ideal.

Actually I became a Marine to escape my family and their addictions that damaged our family. Addictions that in my mind was subsidized by the Government.
Upon entering boot camp I wondered what I was thinking, it was the toughest thing I ever did but I did it and no one can ever take that away.
The things I've learned and seen as a Marine are many, some good and some very bad but I learn from both and except for the loss of dear friends I wouldn't change a day of it.
 

bucs90

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what a bullshit rant. right now 50% of Americans drag the other 50% around on our backs. now what happens when the needy outnumber the willing to works?? you sound just as judgemental about people who are actually willing to get up off their asses and work how ever many jobs it takes to make their livings and put food on the table for their families.. too many now just want some "obama money" and you assholes expect us to take care of 1/5 the population of Mexico too.. why do you think a person who goes out and works his azz off 8 to 10 hours a day owes you a damn thing??

Thanks. I rest my case.

Well, can you justify why the government can or should take, by threat of violence for non-compliance, money from one man to put into the pocket of another, many of whom refuse to attempt to get off welfare???

After that, can you explain why those who oppose welfare, conservatives, have been statistically shown to be more charitable and give voluntarily.........opposed to those who preached redistribution of wealth, liberals, who've been found to give far less to charity?

Seems both sides want to give to the poor. Only the right does it voluntarily and through taxes, while you guys only do it through taxes. Try practicing what you preach. Because we already are.
 

Brubricker

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Yeah, too bad you wish to ignore the ones who're already here. Fuck dem rugrats.
Too bad you have no intellectual ammunition, such that you need to hide behind indigent chiiiilllldrrreeen to try and guilt trip people.

Like I said...Moral and intellectual cowardice.


Yes, it's never possible for a child's well-being to be a legitimate issue. You have so declared it. Your masterful use of sneering automatically wins the argument. That's your "intellectual ammunition." :lol:

Get over yourself.
 

SpidermanTuba

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Upon entering boot camp I wondered what I was thinking, it was the toughest thing I ever did but I did it and no one can ever take that away.
The things I've learned and seen as a Marine are many, some good and some very bad but I learn from both and except for the loss of dear friends I wouldn't change a day of it.



So you joined the Marines run by the government that helped your family fuck itself up, that makes sense.
 

bucs90

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I sure don't want to see children struggle to survive and thrive in our society however a quick check of American history will show that some of our greatest citizens lived through terrible childhoods. Instead of killing them their struggles made them stronger and led to great lives and great things for the world.
I will always support this nations commitment to helping the weakest among us but sometimes I wonder which road is more enlightening and rewarding the smooth one or the bumpy one.
Lets not help each other to death.

I saw your USMC bulldog on your ID photo. I assume that's where you got your opinion that personal responsibility, toughness, and perseverance found in tough times will lead to ultimate success. I agree 100%. Although never in the military, I played college football for 4 years, and those 4 brutal football camps taught me more about life than anything I learned in a classroom. 5 weeks of hell, 4 times, pushing my body and mind to it's limits. A person learns in very difficult times how to push through, suck it up, and most importantly FIND A WAY within the rules to make it. Never quit. Never give up. And above all else, BELIEVE you will emerge victorious.

BUT......some people believe we need to eliminate tough times altogether through social justice and a massive welfare system. Along with what football taught me, I was raised by a single mom in a borderline poor household. Lived with mother and grandparents, and aunt, in a 3 bdrm home. We got by with family and hard work. Now, all of us enjoy middle-upper middle class lives.

But handouts never lead to success. Ever. It must be earned. In the military, in police, in sports, in business, and in life. Leftists have no concept of this ideal.

Actually I became a Marine to escape my family and their addictions that damaged our family. Addictions that in my mind was subsidized by the Government.
Upon entering boot camp I wondered what I was thinking, it was the toughest thing I ever did but I did it and no one can ever take that away.
The things I've learned and seen as a Marine are many, some good and some very bad but I learn from both and except for the loss of dear friends I wouldn't change a day of it.

I salute and admire you for your service. I did 5 years as a cop, it was great, but out of that now. Would've done military if not for the luck of landing a football scholarship in college. I wasn't at a big school, but the camp was just as intense as any that would be at Florida State, Notre Dame, etc.

I can still remember the feeling in my mind on those days in camp when I literally was almost in tears from the pain and pushing my body that far. A few days I almost quit. Just so hot, so intense, so tired. But, got through 4 of those camps, and now, when life gets tough, I just take my mind back to those days and suck it up and push through.

I honestly believe the tougher it is to get out of a bad situation, the less likely a person is to ever let themselves go back into it. Thats why we MUST stop making "poor" so comfortable. Give them just enough to get by, but they have to find the desire to get out of it themselves, else their doomed to stay, or go back.
 

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