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Kucinich On board

Cuyo

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Dennis Kucinich to Vote Yes on Health Care - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Kucinich, long time proponent of single payer, who voted "NO" in November citing that the reform does not go far enough, has pledged his YEA vote for the new bill.

An Excellent visual representation of where the house is:
Democrats to Watch on the Health Care Vote - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

Dems need 22 of 39 "Publicly undecided" to vote YEA in order to pass... All 39 of which are dems. This assumes the 20 who voted NO in November will all vote No again.

I like those odds!:clap2:
 

Bern80

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I figured it wasn't socialistic enough for him. Kucinich is simply a politician in the wrong country all together.
 
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Some Guy

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I'm not sure why anyone in favor of universal health care wouldn't be lining up to vote for this. The simple fact that it doesn't have a public option here doesn't mean that this bill doesn't take profound steps to demolish the private health insurance industry. So, that's a big first step for socialized medicine fans.
 

Truthmatters

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What is halrious is NO ONE I have ever talked to wants socialized medicine for the US.
 

Some Guy

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Ok, so it's a big first step for single payer and socialized medicine fans. Single payer would hardly do anything to cut down the cost of health insurance because it does nothing to address the reasons why health care is expensive. In fact, it would only end up costing more for those who can afford it unless the government expects to borrow another few trillion dollars.

But if anyone cares to discuss how the Senate bill would lead to the destruction of the health insurance industry, then i guess i'd be up for it again.
 
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Cuyo

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Mike Doyle of Pennsylvania switched from Undecided to YEA today as well.

Now needin 21 of 38 "publicly undecided!"

Get your talking points ready, fellas!
 
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Nobody significant has ever proposed it. The current bill is anything but. Add public option and it's still not even close. Even single payer is not "Socialized medicine."

The reason why the left are so desperate for this bill to pass is that it is a 'transition' towards a single payer system.... a single payer system is what they have in the UK.... that is socialized medicine. Why does Obama pretend it is not a transitional step to single payer and that single payer is what the left want? I know why.
 
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Cuyo

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Nobody significant has ever proposed it. The current bill is anything but. Add public option and it's still not even close. Even single payer is not "Socialized medicine."

The reason why the left are so desperate for this bill to pass is that it is a 'transition' towards a single payer system.... a single payer system is what they have in the UK.... that is socialized medicine. Why does Obama pretend it is not a transitional step to single payer and that single payer is what the left want? I know why.

That's only partially true, CG. Progressives like Kucinich, yes, absolutely. Not all of them though. If that were the case, single payer would have been on the table from the get-go and they would have had no problems passing it.

Myself? Yes, absolutely. I don't know why everyone's so scared of single payer. It's the most efficient system. We are going to have it in this country; It is inevitable. Maybe they can stall for another 10 years, maybe 20, but we'll have it. Watch. And no, it's not "Socialized medicine." "Socialized medicine" is where the doctors work for the government directly. Single payer is just Medicare for all basically; The doctors remain private and bill the government instead of your insurance company.
 
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Nobody significant has ever proposed it. The current bill is anything but. Add public option and it's still not even close. Even single payer is not "Socialized medicine."

The reason why the left are so desperate for this bill to pass is that it is a 'transition' towards a single payer system.... a single payer system is what they have in the UK.... that is socialized medicine. Why does Obama pretend it is not a transitional step to single payer and that single payer is what the left want? I know why.

That's only partially true, CG. Progressives like Kucinich, yes, absolutely. Not all of them though. If that were the case, single payer would have been on the table from the get-go and they would have had no problems passing it.

Myself? Yes, absolutely. I don't know why everyone's so scared of single payer. It's the most efficient system. We are going to have it in this country; It is inevitable. Maybe they can stall for another 10 years, maybe 20, but we'll have it. Watch. And no, it's not "Socialized medicine." "Socialized medicine" is where the doctors work for the government directly. Single payer is just Medicare for all basically; The doctors remain private and bill the government instead of your insurance company.

I'll tell you why I am scared of single payer. Because I live under it.
 
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Cuyo

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The reason why the left are so desperate for this bill to pass is that it is a 'transition' towards a single payer system.... a single payer system is what they have in the UK.... that is socialized medicine. Why does Obama pretend it is not a transitional step to single payer and that single payer is what the left want? I know why.

That's only partially true, CG. Progressives like Kucinich, yes, absolutely. Not all of them though. If that were the case, single payer would have been on the table from the get-go and they would have had no problems passing it.

Myself? Yes, absolutely. I don't know why everyone's so scared of single payer. It's the most efficient system. We are going to have it in this country; It is inevitable. Maybe they can stall for another 10 years, maybe 20, but we'll have it. Watch. And no, it's not "Socialized medicine." "Socialized medicine" is where the doctors work for the government directly. Single payer is just Medicare for all basically; The doctors remain private and bill the government instead of your insurance company.

I'll tell you why I am scared of single payer. Because I live under it.

?? Where??
 
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That's only partially true, CG. Progressives like Kucinich, yes, absolutely. Not all of them though. If that were the case, single payer would have been on the table from the get-go and they would have had no problems passing it.

Myself? Yes, absolutely. I don't know why everyone's so scared of single payer. It's the most efficient system. We are going to have it in this country; It is inevitable. Maybe they can stall for another 10 years, maybe 20, but we'll have it. Watch. And no, it's not "Socialized medicine." "Socialized medicine" is where the doctors work for the government directly. Single payer is just Medicare for all basically; The doctors remain private and bill the government instead of your insurance company.

I'll tell you why I am scared of single payer. Because I live under it.

?? Where??

Britain. I pay (a lot!!) towards a healthcare system that I won't use because it is crap. I have private insurance.... that I choose to pay.... because it is the best possible care I can get. The Brits love the NHS - because they've had it for 60 years and they know nothing else. But on their NHS, getting to see a doctor is a pain in the ass. The quality of care varies from area to area (they refer to it as a post code lottery - what care you get depends on where you live). They have hugely lengthy waiting lists for very basic operations and treatment. My contributions go to pay for other people's IVF treatment, gender reassignment, all kinds of non essential crap that should not be covered under a 'health' service. It is mind-bogglingly expensive. The system itself is overloaded and bankrupt. Most importantly, Britain is a small country of around 60 million people. Their NHS is the 4th biggest employer in the WORLD! Now, tell me how the hell that system is gonna work in the US. It would be a fucking nightmare.

From a personal perspective, and I understand that many will disagree with me.... what I find most offensive about their system is that my money pays for someone else's abortion. Now, I am pro-choice - in that I don't believe I have the right to stop someone having an abortion... but I am pro life in that my personal belief is that abortion is murder. I find it breathtakingly offensive that I am forced to pay for the murder of a child.
 
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Cuyo

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I'll tell you why I am scared of single payer. Because I live under it.

?? Where??

Britain. I pay (a lot!!) towards a healthcare system that I won't use because it is crap. I have private insurance.... that I choose to pay.... because it is the best possible care I can get. The Brits love the NHS - because they've had it for 60 years and they know nothing else. But on their NHS, getting to see a doctor is a pain in the ass. The quality of care varies from area to area (they refer to it as a post code lottery - what care you get depends on where you live). They have hugely lengthy waiting lists for very basic operations and treatment. My contributions go to pay for other people's IVF treatment, gender reassignment, all kinds of non essential crap that should not be covered under a 'health' service. It is mind-bogglingly expensive. The system itself is overloaded and bankrupt. Most importantly, Britain is a small country of around 60 million people. Their NHS is the 4th biggest employer in the WORLD! Now, tell me how the hell that system is gonna work in the US. It would be a fucking nightmare.

From a personal perspective, and I understand that many will disagree with me.... what I find most offensive about their system is that my money pays for someone else's abortion. Now, I am pro-choice - in that I don't believe I have the right to stop someone having an abortion... but I am pro life in that my personal belief is that abortion is murder. I find it breathtakingly offensive that I am forced to pay for the murder of a child.

You make a valid point; You don't have to use it. You have the money and can afford private insurance, and the tradeoff is worth it to you, to get faster service or whatever motivated your decision.

IMHO? We should have Single payer, $1000.00 deductible per incident. This will not cover doctors visits, prescriptions for antibiotics, etc. Leave that aspect of it to the private industry. Just get hospitalization/major illness coverage for all. This way getting sick or injured won't ruin one's life financially, and kick the ER bill on to paying clients.
 

boedicca

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We don't need Single Payer to have that option. Just open up interstate competition, reform the income tax code, and expand HSAs (and do tort reform, of course).
 
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Cuyo

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We don't need Single Payer to have that option. Just open up interstate competition, reform the income tax code, and expand HSAs (and do tort reform, of course).

Your still gonna have people who don't buy @ any price, until they crush their femur in an accident at home, with nobody to blame. Or get cancer; Unusual for a young person but not unheard of.

The HSA is more to cover that 1000 deductible than it is for the catastrophic care itself.

I've said it a thousand times; No free market solution will work unless it A.) Gets the uninsured insured, before they think they need it, or B.) Denies care, including emergency care, to non-payers.
 
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?? Where??

Britain. I pay (a lot!!) towards a healthcare system that I won't use because it is crap. I have private insurance.... that I choose to pay.... because it is the best possible care I can get. The Brits love the NHS - because they've had it for 60 years and they know nothing else. But on their NHS, getting to see a doctor is a pain in the ass. The quality of care varies from area to area (they refer to it as a post code lottery - what care you get depends on where you live). They have hugely lengthy waiting lists for very basic operations and treatment. My contributions go to pay for other people's IVF treatment, gender reassignment, all kinds of non essential crap that should not be covered under a 'health' service. It is mind-bogglingly expensive. The system itself is overloaded and bankrupt. Most importantly, Britain is a small country of around 60 million people. Their NHS is the 4th biggest employer in the WORLD! Now, tell me how the hell that system is gonna work in the US. It would be a fucking nightmare.

From a personal perspective, and I understand that many will disagree with me.... what I find most offensive about their system is that my money pays for someone else's abortion. Now, I am pro-choice - in that I don't believe I have the right to stop someone having an abortion... but I am pro life in that my personal belief is that abortion is murder. I find it breathtakingly offensive that I am forced to pay for the murder of a child.

You make a valid point; You don't have to use it. You have the money and can afford private insurance, and the tradeoff is worth it to you, to get faster service or whatever motivated your decision.

IMHO? We should have Single payer, $1000.00 deductible per incident. This will not cover doctors visits, prescriptions for antibiotics, etc. Leave that aspect of it to the private industry. Just get hospitalization/major illness coverage for all. This way getting sick or injured won't ruin one's life financially, and kick the ER bill on to paying clients.

Their system is collapsing. In theory, it all sounds very good and sensible. It just doesn't work. I don't care what anyone says... I have seen both systems up close. You won't believe me, of course and that is your right, but single payer will be the worst possible thing that could happen in the US. It will bankrupt the country. In Britain, the system just sucks money... no matter how much money is thrown at it, it is broken. The Brits don't admit it but it is. Individuals may not be financially ruined - but the country will be.
 

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