Krugman: personal austerity versus government austerity

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Investments make less money when they economy is in a recession or not growing.

If I disagreed I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away again with your libturd strawman between your legs.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Deflation causes depressions so deflating would be stupid.

actually the Fed cured the Carter inflation with deflation!! Sorry!!

Lets see from 1980-1983 there was not a single month of deflation.. maybe the problem here is that you do not know what deflation is. Deflation is where the overall change is negative, you are ignorantly thinking that inflation going from 10% to 3% is deflation its not its just a falling the level of inflation.I'm really sorry that you are so clueless.

Inflation causes mal-investment just as deflation does so neither is good.

plz explain how inflation and deflation cause mal-investment; given that it doesn't its going to be nice to watch you state some more ignorant things

So is it bad that our real goal is to have infinitely high living standards above some theological idea of being "responsible" .

too stupid and perfectly liberal. A higher standard of living comes from new inventions not libturd inflation!!!

Yes you telling us that having a goal to have high living standards is stupid means other people are stupid.

Europe is currently trying the "fiscal responsible" route and as a result they are in an economic depression

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! Europe is socialist so governments are deep in debt,

Being socialists has nothing to do with debt.China, Vietnam and Russia are all socialists and they have very low debt.
In the US govt debt is 25% higher then in Europe.
Chart of the day: Debt to GDP ratios for EU countries « Real-World Economics Review Blog
Eurozone deficits are also less than half of what Americas deficits are.
BBC News - Eurozone deficits fall as austerity bites
So like always you have no clue what you are talking about

[
Germany is exception, has near balanced budgets, no mimimum wage and is urging Republican austerity on the remainder of Europe so Europe can be as prosperous as Germany!! And now another libturd knows his ABC's

As I already posted Germany has increased government spending by 2% and has implemented stimulus programs equal to 7% of GDP. Furthermore govt debt in Germany is 35% higher then in Spain.
So like always you are clueless.

Investments make less money when they economy is in a recession or not growing.

If I disagreed I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away again with your libturd strawman between your legs.

When you dont know what strawman means dont use the term
Come back when you learn English and can say something with more intellectual value then "libturd stupid"

 

[itfitzme]

And gold isn't going to fix it.

It worked pretty well throughout history. Have you noticed the mess this nation and the world is in since private banks have taken control of the monetary systems and its fractional reserve system of banking?

It hasn't "worked pretty well" throughout history. It didn't work pretty well when Hume made his original observations about the nature of money. It didn't work pretty well in the 13 colonies, it didn't work pretty well during the Great Depression. It hasn't worked any better than fiat money throughout the history of mankind.

 

[itfitzme]

In most cases, a fiat monetary system comes into existence as a result of excessive public debt. When the government is unable to repay all its debt in gold or silver, the temptation to remove physical backing rather than to default becomes irresistible.
History of Fiat Money

So? Penicillan came into popular use to solve the issue of massive infections of gun shot wounds on the battle field. What's your point? That cars are bad because of drunk drivers? Perhaps we should ban all credit cards because some people over charge. Or get rid of wine because some people get arrested for public drunkenness. Or we can ban the military because the military in Darfur rapes and pillages.

Oh, I know, let's ban firearms because when some pole don't have enough money to pay their bills, they are tempted to hold up a liquor store. Or how about we ban beds because some teenagers are tempted to have sex before marriage in them.

Yeah, that's the problem with gold backed money, it doesn't work because there isn't enough gold to account for all the money that a nation of 360+ million people, 7.7+ million businesses needs.

In a fiat monetary system, there is no restraint on the amount of money that can be created. This allows unlimited credit creation. Initially, a rapid growth in the availability of credit is often mistaken for economic growth, as spending and business profits grow and frequently there is a rapid growth in equity prices. In the long run, however, the economy tends to suffer much more by the following contraction than it gained from the expansion in credit.
The problem has to do with whether people see opportunities for growth or see the need to consolidate.

There never is any restrained on the amount of money that can be created, except for the restraint of the people creating it. And, if there is a constraint beyond that, then we are fucked like the world economies were fucked in the Great Depression. All your doing is trading of your personal paranoid fear for a real demonstrated problem of massive deflation.

Nor is there "unlimited credit creation", except in that there is something to be gained by interest and return on investment. Like the economy is and fundamentally has been, it's constrained by the free market. If there is no opportunity to invest, no one loans. If no one loans, no mony is created.

It is a pyramid scheme that has had to involve a "global economy" to force recruitment and continue it's growth.

It always has been, It was, as you call it, a "pyramid scheme" when there was gold coin. Nor do you have any evidence that this "pyramid scheme",as you call it, is responsible for anything.

What we should do is allow a competing currency, and see how well that does.

Now that is just ridiculous. First of, we have "competing currencies". You can use a debit card. You can use a check. You can use, if you like, monopoly money, at least you can try though I don't think the grocery store will take it. You can create your own, if you want. See how well that works. The states still have the right to mint coins. They haven't because it doesn't work as well. You can use a check. You can use aluminum cans. You can use eggs, for all the gov't cares. See how well that works. The reason that we use the US dollar is because that is what we have chosen to use. See, your problem is you can't tell the difference between the choices of the free market and the gov't. What you want is for the free market to do what you want. The free market has chosen the US dollar.

What we should do is allow a competing currency, and see how well that does.

Now that is just ridiculous. First of, we have "competing currencies". You can use, if you like, monopoloy money. You can create your own, if you want. See how well that works. The states still have the right to mint coins. They haven't because it doesn't work as well. You can use a check. You can use aluminum cans. You can use eggs, for all the gov't cares. See how well that works. The reason that we use the US dollar is because that is what we have chosen to use. See, your problem is you can't tell the difference between the choices of the free market and the gov't. What you want is for the free market to do what you want. The free market has chosen the US dollar.

, but the Fed and other private central banks will kill it and whoever tries to install one.

Bull shit, the market will kill it.

Basically they know the pyramid scheme with billions of people forced to be involved,

Sorry, dude, that you feel forced by the markets. That's life, that's the economy. Sucks but we all deal with it. We don't go round whining because no one will take our monopoly money and everyone prefers US dollars.

That's what is all really comes down to. Your don't like the aggregate choices of the free market so you want to install your own currency and make the markets do what yo want them to do. Maybe you should have gold coins made with your picture on them. See how well that works for you.

 

[itfitzme]

The reason the stimulus has been such a colossal failure has been due to the fact that there wasn't enough public works programs, not that I'm sure that would have completely fixed the economy anyways, but at least it would have gotten dollars into the hands of workers instead of the banks.

a little Econ 101 for you. If getting money into people's hands worked the government could merely print it and mail it out rather than waste years searching for shovel ready projects. As a liberal you won't have clue how to understand that. Sorry.

You're a pathological liar, aren't you?

a) You've never take an introductory course in economics or a fundamentals course in either macro or micro economics.

b) Monetary policy aren't taught in fundamentals courses beyond simply listing the methods.

So you've never actually taken an economics course.

Bush did send out $250 checks to everyone during his 2007 attempt to do fiscal stimulus.

Currently, the US government doesn't have a monetary policy of printing money (though I sure would like to know where the pallets that were shipped to Iraq came from).

It would be stupid to print money, if the issue is not a lack of money.

There is no reason to simply print money unless the current monetary policies are completely unable to stay deflation, and they were able to stop deflation.

Even then, it all depends on what is going on with the economy.

The fundamental fact is that MV=PQ. If the economy will increase production, then increasing M will increase output. If the economy won't increase production, then increasing M will increase prices.

If you're car doesn't run, putting gasoline in the tank isn't going to fix it if the problem is that electronic control module is fried.

Seeing as you are capable of only over simplified ideas, what would happen if all the money in the economy was removed? Would it stop functioning? Then, what would the economy need to fix it? Money?

As a complete moron, you won't have a clue how to understand that, Sorry.

Links to "econ 101" texts are presented below. You should try reading an "econ 101" text. Though, as a complete moron, you won't have a clue how to understand them, sorry.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Deflation causes depressions so deflating would be stupid.

actually the Fed cured the Carter inflation with deflation!! Sorry!!

Lets see from 1980-1983 there was not a single month of deflation.. maybe the problem here is that you do not know what deflation is. Deflation is where the overall change is negative, you are ignorantly thinking that inflation going from 10% to 3% is deflation its not its just a falling the level of inflation.I'm really sorry that you are so clueless.


plz explain how inflation and deflation cause mal-investment; given that it doesn't its going to be nice to watch you state some more ignorant things




Yes you telling us that having a goal to have high living standards is stupid means other people are stupid.


Being socialists has nothing to do with debt.China, Vietnam and Russia are all socialists and they have very low debt.
In the US govt debt is 25% higher then in Europe.
Chart of the day: Debt to GDP ratios for EU countries « Real-World Economics Review Blog
Eurozone deficits are also less than half of what Americas deficits are.
BBC News - Eurozone deficits fall as austerity bites
So like always you have no clue what you are talking about

As I already posted Germany has increased government spending by 2% and has implemented stimulus programs equal to 7% of GDP. Furthermore govt debt in Germany is 35% higher then in Spain.
So like always you are clueless.

Investments make less money when they economy is in a recession or not growing.

If I disagreed I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away again with your libturd strawman between your legs.

When you dont know what strawman means dont use the term
Come back when you learn English and can say something with more intellectual value then "libturd stupid"

And like always you wont respond to accept reality and will post the same bullshit in the next page, and in another thread.

 

[Oddball]

Europe is currently trying the "fiscal responsible" route and as a result they are in an economic depression.

Only decades after they promised everything to everyone, at the expense of everyone else.

Little shock that the ones who had everything promised to them, at the expense of everyone else, are all bent out of shape.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Europe is currently trying the "fiscal responsible" route and as a result they are in an economic depression.

Only decades after they promised everything to everyone, at the expense of everyone else.

Little shock that the ones who had everything promised to them, at the expense of everyone else, are all bent out of shape.

Yes little shock that countriesi with less debt who implement austerity enter depressions while countiores with mroe debt who dont have expanding economies

 

[itfitzme]

Dude, gold doesn't have intrinsic value. Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold does not add anything useful to money.

Yes Gold is worthless, as it has been shown throughout history to be a worthless
clump of yellowish metal, and every single person and economist in the history of society is stupid for thinking otherwise...

I didn't say gold is worthless. You're grasp of the English language is clearly limited.

I said it has no intrinsic value. It adds nothing to the value of money. All pegging gold to the dollar does is uh.... oh yeah, peg the cost of gold...

Gold has some extrinsic values. It is pretty. It is non-corrosive. It is malleable. It is highly conductive. It is a great coating for electrical contacts.

But pegging the price of gold to the dollar doesn't add anything to the dollar. Nothing, zip, nada. It simply forces gold to have a particular price. Then, the value of the dollar and gold still adjusts according to the needs of the markets, doing exactly what it does, adjusting to the current value of a standard basket of goods.

Worse yet, as prices of goods adjust relative to each other, it really screws up the markets ability to assign value to gold. Or, it screws up the markets ability to assign value to everything else.

But, pegging gold to the dollar does do one thing, it causes massive deflation when monetary policy is unable to adjust because it is limited by the quantity of gold. The history of the gold standard, including the deflation and recovery of the Great Depression, is the story of how gold does not function as a method for fixing the value of money.

Pegging gold to the value of the dollar doesn't fix the "full faith and credit" of the dollar. All it does is add some quantity of gold to that "full faith and credit" as in "we promise to give you some gold". It isn't any better of a promise.

See, there is the problem, you don't like the markets. You have no understanding of how the markets function. Instead, what you want is a price schedule for everything according to what you want things to cost.

You can always mint your own gold coins. There are plenty of private mints that do. You can even have your own likeness put on them. Then, see how that works at the local store. Oh, yeah, that's right, the local store doesn't take gold coins. They use dollars. Oh yea, the markets have chosen the US dollar, the one that you don't like.

Looks like your the odd man out. The one that doesn't like the free market or democracy.

 

[Oddball]

Europe is currently trying the "fiscal responsible" route and as a result they are in an economic depression.

Only decades after they promised everything to everyone, at the expense of everyone else.

Little shock that the ones who had everything promised to them, at the expense of everyone else, are all bent out of shape.

Yes little shock that countriesi with less debt who implement austerity enter depressions while countiores with mroe debt who dont have expanding economies

In English, please.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Only decades after they promised everything to everyone, at the expense of everyone else.

Little shock that the ones who had everything promised to them, at the expense of everyone else, are all bent out of shape.

Yes little shock that countriesi with less debt who implement austerity enter depressions while countiores with mroe debt who dont have expanding economies

In English, please.

If you learned to read English then maybe you could read it

 

[itfitzme]

Considering you brain is unable to think beyond anything 101 perhaps you should just stick to coloring books

weren't you the guy who didn't understand what a price floor was.

It happens. I'd have to see the context. I didn't know what a price floor or ceiling was ten years ago. I bet he knows what they are now.

It's much better then the idiot that still thinks that Bernanke and Friedman said that the cause of the Great Depression was a failure to follow the rules of The Gold Standard.

A lack of knowledge isn't the problem, it's an inability to learn that is the problem.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Considering you brain is unable to think beyond anything 101 perhaps you should just stick to coloring books

weren't you the guy who didn't understand what a price floor was.

It happens. I'd have to see the context. I didn't know what a price floor or ceiling was ten years ago. I bet he knows what they are now.

It's much better then the idiot that still thinks that Bernanke and Friedman said that the cause of the Great Depression was a failure to follow the rules of The Gold Standard.

A lack of knowledge isn't the problem, it's an inability to learn that is the problem.

"
Tottaly correct right wingers like "thinkcorrectlrty" are so stupid that they cant learn that 1+1 is eqaul to 2

 

[Oddball]

Yes little shock that countriesi with less debt who implement austerity enter depressions while countiores with mroe debt who dont have expanding economies

In English, please.

If you learned to read English then maybe you could read it

I've learned English...That post ain't in the lingo....

 

[Flopper]

Krugman is a Keynesian in regards to stimulus. Its kind of like doubling down after losing the first bet. The reason the stimulus has been such a colossal failure has been due to the fact that there wasn't enough public works programs, not that I'm sure that would have completely fixed the economy anyways, but at least it would have gotten dollars into the hands of workers instead of the banks.

If there wasn't govt stimulus the US economy would of stayed in recession in 2010, and grown by 0% in 2011... But ig uess according to you economic growth si a failure. Given that Europe is implmenting the opposite of stimulus and as a result in still in recession and has a wrose economy then they did in the 30's anyone with a brain would conclude that stimulus is a good idea

Eurostat, the European Union's statistical agency, reports that unemployment continues to worsen in the Eurozone, adding further evidence for the failure of the world's biggest experiment in austerity. When we last checked in in March, the January data had just been released. This week's release takes us to the end of March.

Select Unemployment Rates

Date Eurozone Spain Greece Portugal Ireland UK USA EU-27

1/2012 10.7% 23.3% 19.9% 14.8% 14.8% 8.3% 8.3% 10.1%
3/2012 10.8% 24.1% 21.7% 15.3% 14.5% 8.2% 8.2% 10.2%

Middle Class Political Economist: Austerity fail: EU unemployment continues to rise: UPDATED

 

[starcraftzzz]

In English, please.

If you learned to read English then maybe you could read it

I've learned English...That post ain't in the lingo....

So you know English but cant understand basic English... I wish I knew how to speak retard so you could understand me

 

[Oddball]

It was, and still is, basic gibberish.

But you keep a-swingin' away...A million monkeys and all that....

 

[starcraftzzz]

It was, and still is, basic gibberish.

But you keep a-swingin' away...A million monkeys and all that....

Yes it is LOL that your IQ is lower then 70

 

[itfitzme]

if that dollar is a worthless piece of paper that is not able to be traded

Yeah, that's a pretty useless "if". If the US government should come to an end. If the governments of Europe should come to an end. If all of society should come to and end.

Yuu just keep on making up "ifs"

 

[itfitzme]

If the Fed continues to print money to keep real interest rates negative by buying up Treasuries, the GDP may rise nominally, but real GDP would fall in inflation adjusted terms and could even precipitate a collapse of the dollar.

Actually more inflation would improve the economy. Higher inflation lowers debt burdens meaning more inflation would solve the consumer problem. Furthermore inflation would stimulate consumption.

It is bad all around and getting worse, and your partisan ass kissing is a failure to realize that the liberals or the so called conservatives have no answer that is going to be an easy and fluid fix.

Actually Liberals do have a easy fix, its called more government deficit spending

What a totally ignorant fuckwad. You should get the Krugman Noble Prize for being Wrong in the Trillions Column

You managed to say nothing intelligent while calling someone else ignorant. Brilliant.