Kremlin says Russia is open to dialogue with Trump on Ukraine

[Zavulon]

Nuclear war ends Russia, that is the surest way for Russian decolonisation.

Only if you attack first and from the short distance (like from Ukraine).
And this is exactly why NATO wants to take Ukraine.
If we attack first we will survive anyway (while there is the possibility of severe, but acceptable losses).

 

[kyzr]

Make few steps back, and then we'll talk (after elimination of immediate threats).

NATO is basically European. They can't step back.

Of course we can, and we will. They want to kill us, we are going to kill them first.

Mutually assured destruction says you won't.

Odessa massacre was clearly demonstrated on-line from many points of view. It was demostrative mass-murder, and Kievan Junta (and their NATO masters') reaction was even more demonstrative.

Using the Odessa massacre as justification for war is nonsense. It was a riot, we have them here all the time. Not worth dying for.

It's not just few "loud politicians". Dechristianistion and decolonisation were officially declared as the goals of the war by PACE (European Parliament).

The EU is being overrun by Muslims so they are trying to be polite. Stupid *****.

'Polite persecution' of Christians gathers pace in Europe- UCA News

The culture war in the name of tolerance could remove Europe's soul and leave the continent divided when a crisis emerges

www.ucanews.com

NATO's reaction on mass murder of Russian people in Odessa was demonstrative enough.

Stop with that nonsense already, that was a riot, not a government massacre.

If we are talking about more or less realistic scenarios of a nuclear war, no.
Let's play, for starters, the basic scenario.
1. NATO is getting really provocative. Russia say "f#ck off". NATO ignored it. Russia make preparation to attack the USA. NATO say "you are bluffing" and continue to ignore. It's November and it is fall in Northern Hemisphere, and Russia, having strategic advantages of taken initiative is attacking.

2. Russia strike the US military targets, mostly silos of Minuteman III missiles. 500 targets total, 1000 of 100kt bursts, mostly ground surface, far away from big cities. A lot of radiation fallout in few days in northern Mid-America, half of Montana and Wyoming (those who didn't evacuated) died out from radiation, but who cares. Death of trees and grass won't cause significant decrease of water vapor perspiration, its late fall anyway. Burning soil and some forest fires will cause some CO_2 and H_2O in atmosphere, there will be some dust and ash, but even totally they are lesser than a medium volcano eruption. Few Ohio submarines destroyed by gigaton class Poseidon torpedoes. They evaporate a lot of water which will cause greenhouse effect and a lot of clouds (warming atmosphere and causing rains to clean it from ash and dust).
3. Russia suggested two days "humanitarian pause" (to evacuate most valuable part of population from cities) and the pretty generous peace offer (the USA will lose Hawaii, Alaska and California, but survive as a state and nation). After two days of evacuation the USA try to retaliate from one survived Ohio class against Russia and two surviving Ohio class against China. Counter-strike, against Russian and Chinese partly evacuated, partly sheltered cities, which are ready to fight against fire (its not California, both Russia and China don't worry about small fishes or transgenders). 3x20x6 = 360 of 100 kt and 450 kt warheads. Half of them is intercepted. Another half, 180 warheads, got hit their targets. Air bursts, no fallout nor radioactive contamination. Significant destruction, but no firestorms. First of all because modern cities made of concrete and with wide streets simply can't support spreading fire, second because 100 kt bursts caused more significant shockwave, third - because firefighter are well-prepared, fourth - suburbs (as it was in Los-Angeles) doesn't have enough of burning materials to cause firestorms. You need very specific conditions for it, and those conditions are very rare in the modern cities. Smoldering ruins will cause emission of some CO_2 and H_2O but not more than an ordinary forest fire.
3. Russia begins by surgical nuclear strikes eliminate slowly, but steadily, (because there is no need to hesitate), crucial US infrastructure bending US in the unconditional surrender. No firestorms, no dust and ash in atmosphere.

Of course, our modern climate models are too clumsy and uncertain. Anybody who says that he can predict climate changes - is simply a charlatan. So, in practical terms, when we are playing post-war climate environment - we just roll the dice 3D6. If it's 3 - the climate change to the new ice age. If it is 18 - it's new Mikulian interglacial (much warmer than current temperatures). All other combinations - one few years without winter or few years without summer, or no significant changes at all (plus or minus few Celsius degrees).
We are defending ourselves by fighting Western proxies on ex-Ukrainian, now Russian soil.
No. They simply can't take this position being more peaceful even than Putin. Putin personal advantage is his European connections and understanding of German language and German psychology. Anybody else will try to eliminate Europe as fast as possible to improve his position.

I gave you science based examples of what nuclear war does to the climate, not to mention NATO's response. Nuclear war is a very bad idea, that's why it hasn't happened yet with so many stupid people in politics.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/air-force-chief-details-americas-response-to-vladimir-putins-potential-nuclear-attack/news-story/c60d2644676137d3c2c0ac6875b71c4f

"And the US warns before Moscow’s weapons even get near their targets, their own missiles will be in the air and heading in the other direction, reveals Fox News.
Within a matter of seconds, America’s military — operating under orders from the President — would order F-35 fighter jets, B2 Spirit bombers, nuclear subs and battleships into action.
Military insiders say the crystal clear message behind the “battle plan” is to spell out to any state considering a nuke attack ..“don’t even think about it”.

Exclusive | Vladimir Putin hiding lover Alina Kabaeva and their kids in Switzerland

The Russian leader’s champion gymnast mistress is allegedly holed up in a high-security chalet with their four children, sources tell Page Six.

pagesix.com

Vladimir Putin hiding lover Alina Kabaeva and their kids in Switzerland​

Investigation reveals Putin’s ultra-luxe palace he shares with gymnast girlfriend

Vladimir Putin is living with his girlfriend Alina Kabaeva in a luxe palace in Valdai 250 miles from Moscow, according to a report from Proekt.

nypost.com

Investigation reveals Putin’s ultra-luxe palace he shares with gymnast girlfriend​

I'm thinking that Vlad is what we call a "rational actor", he knows what happens to his wives and kids if he launches nukes.
What good is all his money if he and his family are dead or living in some bomb shelter and not his yacht?

 

[kyzr]

Only if you attack first and from the short distance (like from Ukraine).
And this is exactly why NATO wants to take Ukraine.
If we attack first we will survive anyway (while there is the possibility of severe, but acceptable losses).

Ukraine is no closer than Turkey, Sweden, Poland, or other NATO countries.
Ukraine has no nukes, so your rationale' is nonsense.

Even if a NATO country nuked Russia, Russia's retaliation would be devastating.
Nuclear war is NOT rational.

 

[Zavulon]

Ukraine is no closer than Turkey, Sweden, Poland, or other NATO countries.
Ukraine has no nukes, so your rationale' is nonsense.

Of course Ukraine is closer. And one of the reasons of starting SMO was to not allow Ukraine get nukes (there own or NATO's)

Even if a NATO country nuked Russia, Russia's retaliation would be devastating.

No, if its out of blue counter-force strike from the short distance. Then, of course, NATO might have good chances to wipe out significant part of Russian nukes.

Nuclear war is NOT rational.

Direct or indirect attacks against Russia (including current NATO's involvement in Ukrainian crisis) are stupid and irrational. Actually, they are suicidal, and always have been. But western barbarians do it anyway (at least twice a century). And when somebody says that he wants to kill us, we are not going to discuss is he serious and are his intentions rational. We are going to kill them first. And with NATO's numerical superiority nuclear war is the only rational choice.

 

[Moonglow]

Did Trump get the war to end in Ukraine yet?

 

[Zavulon]

NATO is basically European. They can't step back.

Of course they can, and they will step back now or after elimination of their armies and destruction of their cities.

Mutually assured destruction says you won't.

Mutually assured destruction is just a myth.

Using the Odessa massacre as justification for war is nonsense. It was a riot, we have them here all the time. Not worth dying for.

Reaction of NATO countries (and your own) is the justification. You attack one of us - you attack all of us. If you say that Russian lives, killed for being Russian - are some trifle, you need to be denazificated too.

The EU is being overrun by Muslims so they are trying to be polite. Stupid *****.

'Polite persecution' of Christians gathers pace in Europe- UCA News

The culture war in the name of tolerance could remove Europe's soul and leave the continent divided when a crisis emerges

www.ucanews.com

Stop with that nonsense already, that was a riot, not a government massacre.

It was "governmental" (actually kievan junta wasn't a proper government) supported act of genocide.

I gave you science based examples of what nuclear war does to the climate, not to mention NATO's response. Nuclear war is a very bad idea, that's why it hasn't happened yet with so many stupid people in politics.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/air-force-chief-details-americas-response-to-vladimir-putins-potential-nuclear-attack/news-story/c60d2644676137d3c2c0ac6875b71c4f

"And the US warns before Moscow’s weapons even get near their targets, their own missiles will be in the air and heading in the other direction, reveals Fox News.
Within a matter of seconds, America’s military — operating under orders from the President — would order F-35 fighter jets, B2 Spirit bombers, nuclear subs and battleships into action.
Military insiders say the crystal clear message behind the “battle plan” is to spell out to any state considering a nuke attack ..“don’t even think about it”.

Exclusive | Vladimir Putin hiding lover Alina Kabaeva and their kids in Switzerland

The Russian leader’s champion gymnast mistress is allegedly holed up in a high-security chalet with their four children, sources tell Page Six.

pagesix.com

Its not "scientific" in any meaningful sense.

Vladimir Putin hiding lover Alina Kabaeva and their kids in Switzerland​

Investigation reveals Putin’s ultra-luxe palace he shares with gymnast girlfriend

Vladimir Putin is living with his girlfriend Alina Kabaeva in a luxe palace in Valdai 250 miles from Moscow, according to a report from Proekt.

nypost.com

Investigation reveals Putin’s ultra-luxe palace he shares with gymnast girlfriend​

I'm thinking that Vlad is what we call a "rational actor", he knows what happens to his wives and kids if he launches nukes.
What good is all his money if he and his family are dead or living in some bomb shelter and not his yacht?

You know, I'm studying Americans for some time, I know English language, I've read some books and I still don't pretend that I can predict behaviour even of an average American (save for some simple circumstances). But, at least, I do understand that there are things (a lot of them) that I don't understand. You "understanding" of Russian psychology is nothing (and can't be nothing) but the weird mix of plain lie, quaziscientific nonsense, prejudice and wishful thinking. But what is much worse, you just don't understand how deeply wrong are your attempts to make any conclusions about Russia and Russians. "Sh-t on input means sh-t on output." That's your approach. Total and absolute ignorance. You are not just jumping on the really thin ice, you simply don't understand what ice is.

 

[kyzr]

Of course Ukraine is closer. And one of the reasons of starting SMO was to not allow Ukraine get nukes (there own or NATO's)

A distinction without a difference. No one wants to start a nuclear war that no one can win.

No, if its out of blue counter-force strike from the short distance. Then, of course, NATO might have good chances to wipe out significant part of Russian nukes.

Russia has many types of nuclear missiles including the hyper-sonic Oreshnik. No sane person would think that a 1st strike could stop a devastating counter-strike.

Direct or indirect attacks against Russia (including current NATO's involvement in Ukrainian crisis) are stupid and irrational. Actually, they are suicidal, and always have been. But western barbarians do it anyway (at least twice a century). And when somebody says that he wants to kill us, we are not going to discuss is he serious and are his intentions rational. We are going to kill them first. And with NATO's numerical superiority nuclear war is the only rational choice.

Stop with the nonsense/propaganda. NATO is helping Ukraine repel an unjust invasion by Russia, the object is to show Putin than invasions are a very bad idea. NATO is not invading Russia, NATO is not saying they want to kill Russians. NATO is saying that Russia needs to stop their unjust invasion of Ukraine. Nuclear war is a very bad option do not choose it. Trump is working on a peace plan, lets hope that Putin and Zelensky approve it.

 

[kyzr]

Of course they can, and they will step back now or after elimination of their armies and destruction of their cities.

Attacking NATO countries with nuclear weapons is Russia's suicide.

Mutually assured destruction is just a myth.

If you know how many nuclear weapons can be launched at each other, its no myth. Its a certainty.

Reaction of NATO countries (and your own) is the justification. You attack one of us - you attack all of us. If you say that Russian lives, killed for being Russian - are some trifle, you need to be denazificated too.

The 2014 lines were stable, there was no justification for Russia's invasion. Russia unjustly attacked/invaded Ukraine. Russians were not being killed. There was no "ethnic cleansing" of Russians in Ukraine, there are no Nazis.

It was "governmental" (actually kievan junta wasn't a proper government) supported act of genocide.

There was no genocide, a few Russians and a few Ukes were killed in factional riots in Odessa. Not governmental killings.

Its not "scientific" in any meaningful sense.

More scientific than just typing.

You know, I'm studying Americans for some time, I know English language, I've read some books and I still don't pretend that I can predict behaviour even of an average American (save for some simple circumstances). But, at least, I do understand that there are things (a lot of them) that I don't understand. Your "understanding" of Russian psychology is nothing (and can't be nothing) but the weird mix of plain lie, quazi-scientific nonsense, prejudice and wishful thinking. But what is much worse, you just don't understand how deeply wrong are your attempts to make any conclusions about Russia and Russians. "Sh-t on input means sh-t on output." That's your approach. Total and absolute ignorance. You are not just jumping on the really thin ice, you simply don't understand what ice is.

Agreed that Russian psychology is very complex. The Brits have a different view of reality as well.
Russians have always lived under the yoke of Communism or brutal dictators, they really don't appreciate what living under Freedom means. Here in the US we are guaranteed "free speech" and lawyers and freedom to join or not join a political party.
In 2020 the democrats got Biden elected, and in 2024 voters rejected the democrats.
In Russia, you just do as the politicians order you to do. Not sure who votes or who counts votes?
I don't know if you really believe what you type, or if you know what the FSB won't lock you up for. But advocating for nuclear war is not rational. If you think Russia can bluff or leverage its way past NATO by threatening nuclear war, I believe that strategy will fail. Not sure if you study Nostradamus or not, but the future is not guaranteed, we need to be responsible stewards, not war happy idiots.
Yes we are all on very thin ice.

Doomsday Clock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Is the war over?

 

[Zavulon]

Attacking NATO countries with nuclear weapons is Russia's suicide.

Of course no. Vice versa, if we successfully launch our first counter-force strike - it means, even in the worst case - more or less acceptable peace.

If you know how many nuclear weapons can be launched at each other, its no myth. Its a certainty.

I do know. And I do know, that even in Mad Butchers scenario (when both sides succesfully attack each other cities) its not "mutually assured destruction".

The 2014 lines were stable, there was no justification for Russia's invasion.

NATO expansion and arming Ukraine is the justification.

Russia unjustly attacked/invaded Ukraine. Russians were not being killed. There was no "ethnic cleansing" of Russians in Ukraine, there are no Nazis.

Bla-bla-bla... Say now, that NATO is peaceful defensive alliance which never expanded eastward.

There was no genocide, a few Russians and a few Ukes were killed in factional riots in Odessa. Not governmental killings.

It is genocide. And if you don't count Odessa Massacre as an act of genocide (or evn worse condemnation) - it makes you genocide supporter.

More scientific than just typing.

No. Anyone who said that he can predict climate change is a charlatan. Anyone who ignore important factors to achieve desired result - is open and clear charlatan.

Agreed that Russian psychology is very complex. The Brits have a different view of reality as well.
Russians have always lived under the yoke of Communism or brutal dictators, they really don't appreciate what living under Freedom means.

We just have different understanding of the term "freedom". We consider your "freedom" as "slavery".

Here in the US we are guaranteed "free speech" and lawyers and freedom to join or not join a political party.
In 2020 the democrats got Biden elected, and in 2024 voters rejected the democrats.

And nothing have changed in both cases. Just one ******-clown was changed on another ******-clown. Opinion of ordinary people doesn't matter anyway.
In Russia everything is changing in three years and nothing is changing in three hundred years.

In Russia, you just do as the politicians order you to do. Not sure who votes or who counts votes?

Really? When Americans don't like their "leaders" they (Americans) can't do a thing. Exept change one clown on another. When Russians don't like our leaders - we kill them.
We have four parties in parliament and the spectrum of political opinions is quite wide - from communism to liberal-democrats. In the USA democrats and republicans are absolutely equal, just like Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola.

I don't know if you really believe what you type, or if you know what the FSB won't lock you up for. But advocating for nuclear war is not rational.

I'm not "advocating" anything. I just explain you our point of view. There are certain circumstances under which Russia will launch counter-force nuclear attack against the USA and/or European countries.

If you think Russia can bluff or leverage its way past NATO by threatening nuclear war, I believe that strategy will fail. Not sure if you study Nostradamus or not, but the future is not guaranteed, we need to be responsible stewards, not war happy idiots.
Yes we are all on very thin ice.

The difference is that we can win, and you can't.
Ever heard about The Battle on The Ice (1242)?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Zavulon, and every Rodina rat, has a suicide wish.

 

[Zavulon]

Zavulon, and every Rodina rat, has a suicide wish.

It's not suicide if we attack first, attack fast and attack precise.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It's not suicide if we attack first, attack fast and attack precise.

You won't. Too scared. Should be.

 

[kyzr]

Of course not. Vice versa, if we successfully launch our first counter-force strike - it means, even in the worst case - more or less acceptable peace.
I do know. And I do know, that even in Mad Butchers scenario (when both sides successfully attack each others cities) its not "mutually assured destruction".

There is no winning a nuclear war. Don't tempt FATE.

NATO expansion and arming Ukraine is the justification. Say now, that NATO is peaceful defensive alliance which never expanded eastward.
It is genocide. And if you don't count Odessa Massacre as an act of genocide (or even worse condemnation) - it makes you genocide supporter.

How many were killed at the "Odessa Massacre"? Which "massacre"? 1918, 1941, or 2014? 46 Pro-Russian rioters were killed, hardly a massacre. They should not have attacked peaceful "Maidan" protesters. In a democracy "majority rules".

No. Anyone who said that he can predict climate change is a charlatan. Anyone who ignore important factors to achieve desired result - is open and clear charlatan.

You type stuff with no scientific proof.

We just have different understanding of the term "freedom". We consider your "freedom" as "slavery".

That's funny. But I'm sure the FSB approves.

And nothing has changed in both elections. Just one ******-clown was changed on another ******-clown. Opinions of ordinary people don't matter. In Russia everything is changing in three years and nothing is changing in three hundred years.

Biden was a senile idiot. Trump is a very competent businessman. Trump has several billionaires helping to guide his policies, I don't know if Putin takes advice from his oligarchs?

Really? When Americans don't like their "leaders" they (Americans) can't do a thing. Except change one clown for another. When Russians don't like our leaders - we kill them. We have four parties in parliament and the spectrum of political opinions is quite wide - from communism to liberal-democrats. In the USA democrats and republicans are absolutely equal, just like Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola.

Not true. Democrats use 'race' as the basis for their policies, like DEI, "diversity, equity, and inclusion" to get more blacks into the work force, and more black votes. Republicans are pro-business and generally color-blind, your abilities say how you advance, not your color. Russians haven't killed one of their leaders since 1918. JFK was killed in Dallas in 1962. Trump was almost killed in 2024. Reagan was shot in 1981 but survived. Many more were shot since 1776.

I'm not "advocating" anything. I just explain to you our point of view. There are certain circumstances under which Russia will launch counter-force nuclear attack against the USA and/or European countries. The difference is that we can win, and you can't. Ever heard about The Battle on The Ice (1242)?

There is no winning a nuclear war, so we disagree. I understand that having a huge nuclear stockpile and having delivery systems is tempting, especially when your army is bogged down in a brutal stalemate on the battlefield taking heavy casualties. But the smart play is the safe play. Avoid WW3. Take Crimea and Donbas and celebrate a "win".

 

[Zavulon]

You won't. Too scared. Should be.

If you guys are not scared to die out for nothing, why should we be scared to die for our people?

 

[Zavulon]

There is no winning a nuclear war. Don't tempt FATE.

I'm not religious. I don't believe neither in "nuclear winter" nor in "fate".


kyzr , every time you are parroting your official propaganda and type something like your usual BS: "The Russians had started and they are fighting this war for no reason. It's just a caprise of a nostalgic dictator, and the blind obedience of brainwashed goons, without critical thinking, honor, dignity, or even self-understanding, controlled by the FSB, all-mighty order of the evil wisards. You all are stupid cowards and you have to bend before the might of America, or we'll all die out because of "global warming", "nuclear winter", "destruction of ozon layer", "pandemia of genetically modificated super viruses" or something like this"...
Ok, every time Russians (including me) read it like: "I am a stupid American Nazi, who just doesn't count Russians as human beings and believes in some pseudo-scientific nonsense (which is not just "not real", its even "non-realistic", even for fiction books and movies). I'm not just classical Anglo-Saxon doublethinker, who needs to settle contradictions in his logic by some mental tricks, but I'm a non-binary thinker, I just ignore contradictions and don't value logic at all. Our peaceful coexistence with Russians (or anyone else on this planet) is simply impossible, so please, eliminate our nuclear weapons before we harmed ourselves or anybody else".


With this approach, of course, you simply can't solve any conflicts.


But I know you can do better than that. Even by the [pretty low] standards of the modern American movies, to be "believable", the "evil" side should be "realistical". It should behave in more or less logical way, it should have proper, acceptable and believable motivations.

I mean, Sauron in "The Rings of the Power" with his orcs, or Palpatin in "Star wars" with his Clones and Stormtroopers are much more "realistic", than "Putin and his subhuman Russians" in you CNN-verse.

I don't have anything against your books and movies. Actually, I enjoy them pretty much. But if try to act in the real world as if you are hero of a Marvel movie (and, say, jump off the roof) you are dead. If you wanna survive - you should at least try to understand reality.

 

[kyzr]

I'm not religious. I don't believe in "nuclear winter" nor in "fate".

kyzr , every time you are parroting your official propaganda and type something like your usual BS: "The Russians had started and they are fighting this war for no reason. It's just a caprice of a nostalgic dictator, and the blind obedience of brainwashed goons, without critical thinking, honor, dignity, or even self-understanding, controlled by the FSB, all-mighty order of the evil wizards. You all are stupid cowards and you have to bend before the might of America, or we'll all die out because of "global warming", "nuclear winter", "destruction of ozone layer", "pandemic of genetically modified super viruses" or something like this"...
Ok, every time Russians (including me) read it like: "I am a stupid American Nazi, who just doesn't count Russians as human beings and believes in some pseudo-scientific nonsense (which is not just "not real", its even "non-realistic", even for fiction books and movies). I'm not just classical Anglo-Saxon double-thinker, who needs to settle contradictions in his logic by some mental tricks, but I'm a non-binary thinker, I just ignore contradictions and don't value logic at all. Our peaceful coexistence with Russians (or anyone else on this planet) is simply impossible, so please, eliminate our nuclear weapons before we harmed ourselves or anybody else".

With this approach, of course, you simply can't solve any conflicts.

But I know you can do better than that. Even by the [pretty low] standards of the modern American movies, to be "believable", the "evil" side should be "realistic". It should behave in more or less logical way, it should have proper, acceptable and believable motivations.
I mean, Sauron in "The Rings of the Power" with his orcs, or Palpatin in "Star wars" with his Clones and Storm-troopers are much more "realistic", than "Putin and his subhuman Russians" in you CNN-verse.

I don't have anything against your books and movies. Actually, I enjoy them pretty much. But if try to act in the real world as if you are hero of a Marvel movie (and, say, jump off the roof) you are dead. If you wanna survive - you should at least try to understand reality.

1. I am religious and I believe in nuclear winter based on what happened to the climate after Krakatoa exploded.

Krakatoa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"With an estimated Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) of 6,[2] the eruption was equivalent to 200 megatons of TNT (840 PJ)—about 13,000 times the nuclear yield of the Little Boy bomb (13 to 16 kt) that devastated Hiroshima, Japan, during World War II, and four times the yield of Tsar Bomba, the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated at 50 Mt."

Nuclear winter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. I don't "parrot" anything, I type my own opinions. Here in the US we can criticize our government without fear of arrest. Putin's "special operation" may not have been a caprice, but a miscalculation by his generals telling him that they could capture Kiev in only 3-days. That sounded like a strategic victory. But that didn't happen. What happened was a slaughter. Now the war is stalemated with more useless deaths every day.

3. You are brainwashed, and you prove it every time you use the word Nazi.

4. Ask Gary Kasperov how Americans view Russians. Ask Russian hockey players, especially Ovechkin, in the NHL how living here in freedom is different than living in Russia.

5. What "pseudo-scientific nonsense"? Nuclear winter? Or something else?

6. Our peaceful coexistence with Russians was happening before Putin invaded Ukraine. We disagree on Ukraine's independence. You apparently believe that Ukraine is Russian territory, we disagree.

7. We never thought of Russians as "sub-human" that was Hitler and Goebbles' propaganda. The US Constitution starts off with "All men are created equal". Putin apparently has little regard for Russian lives or he would take the peace deal.

8. "Reality" is that Russia invaded Ukraine, they took their shot at Kiev and missed. Then they compounded the error by continuing the war. Now they are threatening nuclear war as an act of desperation. Take the ******* peace deal, take Crimea and Donbas and celebrate a victory.

 

[Zavulon]

1. I am religious and I believe in nuclear winter based on what happened to the climate after Krakatoa exploded.

Krakatoa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"With an estimated Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) of 6,[2] the eruption was equivalent to 200 megatons of TNT (840 PJ)—about 13,000 times the nuclear yield of the Little Boy bomb (13 to 16 kt) that devastated Hiroshima, Japan, during World War II, and four times the yield of Tsar Bomba, the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated at 50 Mt."

There are differences between a single underground burst of 200 MT and 1000 of 100 kt surface bursts of the counter-force strike. And both hardly can be compared with airial bursts of counter-value strike, or even lesser with gigaton class underwater bursts of Poseidon torpedoes. Yes, there can be climatic consequences more or less equal to those of Krakatoa explosion - like few years a bit warmer (which is a bit more likely) or few years a bit cooler, but nothing really "catastrophic" or leading to extinction of the human race.

2. I don't "parrot" anything, I type my own opinions.

You don't have and you simply can't have "your own opinion" at least because you don't have access to the first hand information. In fact, all you have is official US propaganda and because most of Americans doesn't have access to first hand information its quite poor propaganda.

Here in the US we can criticize our government without fear of arrest.

There are some "sacred cows" in America either. And, basically, you can criticise Russian government in Russia either (especially if it is constructive criticism).

Putin's "special operation" may not have been a caprice, but a miscalculation by his generals telling him that they could capture Kiev in only 3-days.

Thats what I mean when I said, that you basically have no a slightest clue about what is actually happening in Russia. Taking cities in "three days", especially cities that big after Chechnya and Syria, especially with obviously insufficient forces it's more than just stupid - it's totally impossible. And, of course, they didn't came with the single plan "A". They have plans "B", "C", "D", "E".

That sounded like a strategic victory.

Of course it didn't sounded like a strategic victory. Even if we'd captured Kiev (like with cooperation of local Ukrainian Army regiments) there still was counter-guerilla war in Western Ukraine.

But that didn't happen. What happened was a slaughter.

Its not a slaughter. Not yet. Its just a gentle slapping of unruly slut and coerction in mutually acceptable peace terms.

Now the war is stalemated with more useless deaths every day.

There are no "useless deaths". Every Banderlog killed now, won't commit terroristic acts in future. And it is much better to kill them in the field, rather than preventing their terroristic acts while they are among women, children and pro-Russian civilians. We are not going to repeat your mistake in Iraq, where you accepted "surrender of Iraq's Army".

3. You are brainwashed, and you prove it every time you use the word Nazi.

Or you are brainwashed, when you are denying existence of Nazies in Ukraine and your own Nazi nature.

4. Ask Gary Kasperov how Americans view Russians. Ask Russian hockey players, especially Ovechkin, in the NHL how living here in freedom is different than living in Russia.

The problem is that both of them are not Russians anymore. They are Vyrus.

5. What "pseudo-scientific nonsense"? Nuclear winter? Or something else?

Yes. First of all, of course, "nuclear winter".

6. Our peaceful coexistence with Russians was happening before Putin invaded Ukraine.

No. It wasn't. You sponsored mass-murders of Russians in Middle Asia. You support discrimination of Russians in Baltic states.

We disagree on Ukraine's independence. You apparently believe that Ukraine is Russian territory, we disagree.

It's simply not your freaking business. And no, it's not about territory at all. We disagree on much more deeper and important question. We believe that no one have right to discriminate, abuse or kill Russians. You believe that somebody (true Europeans or NATO members, or democratic countries, or who ever else) have that right.

7. We never thought of Russians as "sub-human" that was Hitler and Goebbles' propaganda. The US Constitution starts off with "All men are created equal".

You simply don't believe in it. When you say, that the Russians can be killed, abused or discriminated, when you say, that Russian soldiers are brainwashed goons, dying for nothing, or Russian general can't calculate number of forces necessary for "taking Kiev" or other BS, you do say that Russian are "subhumans".

Putin apparently has little regard for Russian lives or he would take the peace deal.

Russians started this operation exactly because we do value our lives.

8. "Reality" is that Russia invaded Ukraine, they took their shot at Kiev and missed. Then they compounded the error by continuing the war. Now they are threatening nuclear war as an act of desperation. Take the ******* peace deal, take Crimea and Donbas and celebrate a victory.

No. We need reliable and lasting peace, not freaking one day long cheesefire.
And this peace is possible only after denazification (in the Russian understanding of the term), demilitarization and neutral status of Ukraine, end of discrimination of Russians in Baltic states, returning of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders.

Without denazification of Ukraine, Ukrainian bands will continue their attacks against Russians, and there will be anti-Kievan rebellions in Odessa and Kharkov (for starters).

 

[kyzr]

There are differences between a single underground burst of 200 MT and 1000 of 100 kt surface bursts of the counter-force strike. And both hardly can be compared with aerial bursts of counter-value strike, or even lesser with gigaton class underwater bursts of Poseidon torpedoes. Yes, there can be climatic consequences more or less equal to those of Krakatoa explosion - like a few years a bit cooler, but nothing really "catastrophic" or leading to extinction of the human race.

You can believe that, I don't want to find out how much damage 10,000 or so nuclear devices can cause

You don't have and you simply can't have "your own opinion" at least because you don't have access to the first hand information. In fact, all you have is official US propaganda and because most of Americans doesn't have access to first hand information its quite poor propaganda.

You remind me of a Muslim I used to work with who firmly believed that AlJezeera was the only true news. That source was proven o distort the news. I'm sure Russia's "state run" news is very filtered. US news is "biased" against Trump, we only have a few unbiased news channels.

There are some "sacred cows" in America. And, basically, you can criticize Russian government in Russia either (especially if it is constructive criticism).

The only "sacred cow" in the US is Israel. Pro-Palestinian protesters were threatened with ruin and deportation.

That's what I mean when I said, that you don't have a clue about what is actually happening in Russia. Taking cities in "three days", especially cities that big after Chechnya and Syria, especially with obviously insufficient forces it's more than just stupid - it's totally impossible. And, of course, they didn't come with the single plan "A". They have plans "B", "C", "D", "E".

I showed you the link. You can say they are lying or propaganda, but they are real links.

How Russia's '3-day' Ukraine invasion became Putin's humiliation - full timeline

Since February 24, the Russian invasion has received international condemnation as the world rallies behind the Ukrainian people and President Volodymyr Zelensky as they continue their fierce resistance

www.mirror.co.uk

Putin thought Russia's military could capture Kyiv in 2 days, but it still hasn't in 20

Putin was "clearly lacking good information on the ground," an expert said. But bad intelligence alone doesn't explain Russia's failure to take Kyiv.

www.businessinsider.com

Its not a slaughter. Not yet. Its just a gentle slapping of unruly slut and coercion in mutually acceptable peace terms.

Sorry to say but the death totals on both sides are staggering. Say about 90,000 each with many more wounded or missing.

There are no "useless deaths". Every Banderlog killed now, won't commit acts of terrorism in the future. And it is much better to kill them in the field, rather than preventing their acts of terror while they are among women, children and pro-Russian civilians. We are not going to repeat your mistake in Iraq, where you accepted "surrender of Iraq's Army".

So Russian deaths don't matter? Our expression for dead soldiers is "acceptable losses". Very cold.

Or you are brainwashed, when you are denying existence of Nazies in Ukraine and your own Nazi nature.

Yes I deny there are Nazis. WW2 really messed you Russians up. I can see that losing 27,000,000 Russians during WW2 can leave deep psychological scars, which is probably why you keep seeing Nazis where none exist.

The problem is that both of them are not Russians anymore. They are Virus.

Why are they viruses? They are gifted and are highly respected here. Point being that your 'sub-human' Nazi propaganda is nonsense.

No. It wasn't. You sponsored mass-murders of Russians in Middle Asia. You support discrimination of Russians in Baltic states.

I thought we all got along before Putin invaded Ukraine? What mass murder of Russians in central Asia? What discrimination in which Baltic states? I'm blanking, and don't go back to 1242 or 1786. Recent, since 2014 examples.

It's simply not your freaking business. And no, it's not about territory at all. We disagree on much more deeper and important question. We believe that no one have right to discriminate, abuse or kill Russians. You believe that somebody (true Europeans or NATO members, or democratic countries, or who ever else) have that right.

We call that nonsense Russian propaganda.

You simply don't believe in it. When you say, that the Russians can be killed, abused or discriminated, when you say, that Russian soldiers are brainwashed goons, dying for nothing, or Russian general can't calculate number of forces necessary for "taking Kiev" or other BS, you do say that Russian are "subhumans".

More propaganda. Here is what I posted. Please read it again.
"We never thought of Russians as "sub-human" that was Hitler and Goebbles' propaganda. The US Constitution starts off with "All men are created equal".

Russians started this operation exactly because we do value our lives.

You are losing many more lives than can be justified by the false claims used to invade Ukraine.

No. We need reliable and lasting peace, not freaking one day long ceasefire.
And this peace is possible only after denazification (in the Russian understanding of the term), demilitarization and neutral status of Ukraine, end of discrimination of Russians in Baltic states, returning of NATO's military infrastructure back to 1997 borders. Without denazification of Ukraine, Ukrainian bands will continue their attacks against Russians, and there will be anti-Kievan rebellions in Odessa and Kharkov (for starters).

Never happen. Have you seen the movie "Dr Strangelove"? It reminds me of how you look at nuclear war.

 

[Zavulon]

You can believe that, I don't want to find out how much damage 10,000 or so nuclear devices can cause

More or less as much as the burst of Santorini, roughly - 7 gigatons. Nearby Cyprus was partly damaged, the whole island was covered with slightly radioactive volcanic ash, but, Cyprus culture survived, they had built new cities over the layer of volcanic ash, and they even kept their sea domination, and only two hundred years later their civilisation, culture and language were destroyed by ordinary men with swords and spears.

You remind me of a Muslim I used to work with who firmly believed that AlJezeera was the only true news. That source was proven o distort the news. I'm sure Russia's "state run" news is very filtered. US news is "biased" against Trump, we only have a few unbiased news channels.

You don't have "unbiased" news channels at all. Nobody has. All people lie. "Human's tongue have two sides - one for lying and another for hiding truth".

The only "sacred cow" in the US is Israel. Pro-Palestinian protesters were threatened with ruin and deportation.

It's not the only "sacred cow".

I showed you the link. You can say they are lying or propaganda, but they are real links.

How Russia's '3-day' Ukraine invasion became Putin's humiliation - full timeline

Since February 24, the Russian invasion has received international condemnation as the world rallies behind the Ukrainian people and President Volodymyr Zelensky as they continue their fierce resistance

www.mirror.co.uk

Putin thought Russia's military could capture Kyiv in 2 days, but it still hasn't in 20

Putin was "clearly lacking good information on the ground," an expert said. But bad intelligence alone doesn't explain Russia's failure to take Kyiv.

www.businessinsider.com

Sorry to say but the death totals on both sides are staggering. Say about 90,000 each with many more wounded or missing.

As I said - its quite acceptable losses (at least for Russia), hardly more than those of traffic accidents. Ukrainian losses much more larger, but also still acceptable (for the USA).

So Russian deaths don't matter? Our expression for dead soldiers is "acceptable losses". Very cold.

Russian lives matter. We saved much more that we had lost, and we are going to save more.

Yes I deny there are Nazis.

And what if I'd denied that there are Democrats in California?

WW2 really messed you Russians up. I can see that losing 27,000,000 Russians during WW2 can leave deep psychological scars, which is probably why you keep seeing Nazis where none exist.

I do understand why you don't see Nazies where they exist (because you media don't show them for you, and even when they show you prefer to turn your blind eye on them).
As I said - I don't believe neither in Dark Wisards and armies of zombies, nor in "evil dictators" and "armies of brainwashed goons". Nazism is a natural posture for European. It is their nature. Hitler wasn't an evil wisard, who enslaved the whole European peninsula by a sort of a devilish dark magic. No. He just gave ordinary Europeans permission to do what they always wanted to do. No more, no less. Yes, after it we gave them a lesson. But they learnt nothing, and they want to do now what they failed to do eighty years ago.

Why are they viruses?

Not "virus". "Vyrus". Something between "ex-Russians" and "outlaws". People who deliberately left Russian community and warped their own nature. And, of course, Kasparov isn't a Russian in the narrow meaning of the term. He is a Jew, and the Jewish identity is a bit complicated.

They are gifted and are highly respected here. Point being that your 'sub-human' Nazi propaganda is nonsense.

There are a lot of gifted and highly respected Blacks. Does it mean, that there is no problem of systematic racism in the USA?

I thought we all got along before Putin invaded Ukraine? What mass murder of Russians in central Asia?

A lot of mass murders of ethnic Russians in Central Asia in 1990s.
About some of them you can even read in Wikipedia.

List of massacres in Kazakhstan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But most of them were totally ignored by the western media.

What discrimination in which Baltic states?

Ordinary official discrimination. Ban of Russian school education, status of non-citizens, destruction and blasphemy of Russian graveyards and monuments and so on...

More propaganda. Here is what I posted. Please read it again.
"We never thought of Russians as "sub-human" that was Hitler and Goebbles' propaganda.

Of course you do. If you consider Odessa Massacre as a trifle, if you really believe that Putin is that immoral to start the war for no reason, that generals are that incompetent to believe that they can take Kiev in 3 days without Army, and Russian soldiers that brainwashed to go to certain death without hesitations... Yes, in this case you thought about Russians as "sub-humans".

You are losing many more lives than can be justified by the false claims used to invade Ukraine.

Yes. The point is, that our claims are not false. And as, in fact, we know situation in Russia and Ukraine much better than you - we know why all those (and much more larger) losses are totally justified.

Never happen. Have you seen the movie "Dr Strangelove"? It reminds me of how you look at nuclear war.

Of course I watched the movie. What is even more important I've read "Red Alert" by Peter George, the book, that was used for scenario, I've read the books of German Kahn (starting with "On the Thermonuclear war" and finishing with "Thinking about unthinkable in 1980s"), who was the prototype for Dr. Strangelove, and I do read books of Russian think-tankers, like "From Deterrence to Intimidation".

It demanded the genius of Kubrick to make the anti-war comedy from rather calm and reasonable techno-thriller. Read books, kyzr , they are useful.

But yes, even in the movie there are pretty nice episodes, like a short presentation of two possibilities.