KIDS are those 0 to 20 years of age

[BaltimoreBob]

KIDS are those 0 to 20 years

I believe that those under 21 can serve this country
but not in Combat or in a war zone.

It's Child Abuse to sent those under 21
and put their lives in danger.

21 to drink is Ok with me.
21 to serve in combat.
Keep it 21 for both.

I was sent to Vietnam at age 20
just a week after I was the driver in a vehicle accident
that claimed the life of my friend Paul.
I was driving a 1963 Chevy Corvair.
See Ralph Nader.

I believe 3 out of 4 Americans are Cowards
and that a 40% protest rate would put an end to anything
in this fine Country that seems to lack - fine people.
Country is Great - people ?

Vietnam was 100% WRONG.

Baltimore Bob

 

[jgbkab]

KIDS are those 0 to 20 years

I believe that those under 21 can serve this country
but not in Combat or in a war zone.

It's Child Abuse to sent those under 21
and put their lives in danger.

21 to drink is Ok with me.
21 to serve in combat.
Keep it 21 for both.

I was sent to Vietnam at age 20
just a week after I was the driver in a vehicle accident
that claimed the life of my friend Paul.
I was driving a 1963 Chevy Corvair.
See Ralph Nader.

I believe 3 out of 4 Americans are Cowards
and that a 40% protest rate would put an end to anything
in this fine Country that seems to lack - fine people.
Country is Great - people ?

Vietnam was 100% WRONG.

Baltimore Bob

Welcome to USMB, BB.

 

[Skull Pilot]

i think we should make everyone 18 and older 100% responsible for themselves.

Shit 100 years ago 18 year old "children" were considered men and women and were acting as such.

the way things are going today, it won't be long before a 30 year old is still considered a child.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

Quote: it won't be long before a 30 year old is still considered a child.

That's going overboard. Maybe 22.
But years ago people married at age 15
not it's probably closer to 25.

I believe I knew more at age 21 then at did at 20
but even at 21 I might have been a year or two off.

Baltimore Bob

 

[Seraega]

i think we should make everyone 18 and older 100% responsible for themselves.

Shit 100 years ago 18 year old "children" were considered men and women and were acting as such.

the way things are going today, it won't be long before a 30 year old is still considered a child.

Psychologists are already trying to push it back to 25. They're babbling about the age the brain "fully develops".

 

[Amanda]

KIDS are those 0 to 20 years

I believe that those under 21 can serve this country
but not in Combat or in a war zone.

It's Child Abuse to sent those under 21
and put their lives in danger.

21 to drink is Ok with me.
21 to serve in combat.
Keep it 21 for both.

I was sent to Vietnam at age 20
just a week after I was the driver in a vehicle accident
that claimed the life of my friend Paul.
I was driving a 1963 Chevy Corvair.
See Ralph Nader.

I believe 3 out of 4 Americans are Cowards
and that a 40% protest rate would put an end to anything
in this fine Country that seems to lack - fine people.
Country is Great - people ?

Vietnam was 100% WRONG.

Baltimore Bob

Sweet baby Jesus...

We don't need a nanny state, we need people to take personal responsibility for themselves.

 

[Seraega]

Sweet baby Jesus...

We don't need a nanny state, we need people to take personal responsibility for themselves.

Personal responsibility is fine, but that doesn't mean that it's even possible to be 100% self sufficient. Maybe 70-80%, but there are some things that we can only accomplish by coming together.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

Quote: We don't need a nanny state

No nanny state just 21 for drinking and combat
Age 18 for the rest

Just don't put a 0 to 20 year olds life in danger
because it's not right.
21 to handle drinking and combat.

Baltimore Bob

 

[Quatermass]

I'm afraid US Messageboard may well confirm your dismal analysis Baltimore Bob. Here you will find an abundance of frightened souls. Ideologically bankrupt and self serving individuals who will argue vigorously for someone else's son or daughter to hurtle themselves into foreign wars that only serve the interests of plundering Imperialists, and which rob not only American youths of their halcyon days, but mounting swathes of innocent foreign civilians, (their victims) of life and limb also.

(See my O.P. http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-middle-east-general/73882-is-terrorism-the-central-plank-of-us-led-invasions-of-afghanistan-and-iraq.html)

This axis of evil, primarily made up of U.S. and U.K. aggression is the cold hard face of International Capitalism. And anyone that supports this evil system also supports the war machine that keeps it afloat.

In the eyes of the Capitalist war machine the working class are nothing more, whether they be 14, 16, 18 or 21, than cannon fodder, a means to an ends by which profit is secured on the International theatre. Exploitation in the workplace is followed quite naturally with exploitation in the field of combat.

Vietnam was indeed wrong Baltimore Bob. The first portion of the following Italian film on You Tube shows the hidden footage of U.S.A.F. terrorists dropping payloads of Napalm on to civilian villages in Vietnam. The rest focuses on a similar use of napalm recently by U.S. terrorists on Civilians in the once thriving City of Fallujah, Iraq, in November of 2004.

Fallujah, the hidden message: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff8aduPHg4]YouTube - Fallujah The Hidden Message[/ame]

 

[Amanda]

Quote: We don't need a nanny state

No nanny state just 21 for drinking and combat
Age 18 for the rest

Just don't put a 0 to 20 year olds life in danger
because it's not right.
21 to handle drinking and combat.

Baltimore Bob

Sorry Bob, I've been drinking since I was quite young and fucking and fighting too. I don't think there's anything wrong with a 13 or 14 year old being given the responsibility of an "adult". I think the ideas our current culture has about age/responsibility are all fucked up. 200 years ago we didn't think 2x about calling "kids" adults and letting them self determine... If anything kids today are more aware and more ready to take control and be adults. I would have gladly taken responsibility for myself at 15 or 16 if our culture would have let me. I think people that want to keep young people artificially children are doing more of a disservice than anything else. Please... let us succeed or fail on our own terms, isn't that the same chance you got? If not, isn't it what you wanted???

 

[Dis]

Quote: We don't need a nanny state

No nanny state just 21 for drinking and combat
Age 18 for the rest

Just don't put a 0 to 20 year olds life in danger
because it's not right.
21 to handle drinking and combat.

Baltimore Bob

Sorry Bob, I've been drinking since I was quite young and fucking and fighting too. I don't think there's anything wrong with a 13 or 14 year old being given the responsibility of an "adult". I think the ideas our current culture has about age/responsibility are all fucked up. 200 years ago we didn't think 2x about calling "kids" adults and letting them self determine... If anything kids today are more aware and more ready to take control and be adults. I would have gladly taken responsibility for myself at 15 or 16 if our culture would have let me. I think people that want to keep young people artificially children are doing more of a disservice than anything else. Please... let us succeed or fail on our own terms, isn't that the same chance you got? If not, isn't it what you wanted???

Really? So then you have a full time job to replace the one you were fired from, and at the ripe old age of 18, you're fully on your own, supporting yourself, depending on nobody for anything, right? You have your own apartment, make your own rent payment, your own car, making your own car payment, your own insurance, making your own insurance payment, buying your own food, clothes, other necessities, etc, you are not dependent upon anyone else in any way, shape, or form for anything financial, and you've had all of that since you were 15 or 16?

Why do I find that so hard to believe?


If not, why not?

 

[Amanda]

Quote: We don't need a nanny state

No nanny state just 21 for drinking and combat
Age 18 for the rest

Just don't put a 0 to 20 year olds life in danger
because it's not right.
21 to handle drinking and combat.

Baltimore Bob

Sorry Bob, I've been drinking since I was quite young and fucking and fighting too. I don't think there's anything wrong with a 13 or 14 year old being given the responsibility of an "adult". I think the ideas our current culture has about age/responsibility are all fucked up. 200 years ago we didn't think 2x about calling "kids" adults and letting them self determine... If anything kids today are more aware and more ready to take control and be adults. I would have gladly taken responsibility for myself at 15 or 16 if our culture would have let me. I think people that want to keep young people artificially children are doing more of a disservice than anything else. Please... let us succeed or fail on our own terms, isn't that the same chance you got? If not, isn't it what you wanted???

Really? So then you have a full time job to replace the one you were fired from, and at the ripe old age of 18, you're fully on your own, supporting yourself, depending on nobody for anything, right? You have your own apartment, make your own rent payment, your own car, making your own car payment, your own insurance, making your own insurance payment, buying your own food, clothes, other necessities, etc, you are not dependent upon anyone else in any way, shape, or form for anything financial, and you've had all of that since you were 15 or 16?

Why do I find that so hard to believe?


If not, why not?

I was doing exactly that until I called bullshit on the crazed dyke that was harassing me. I was totally self sufficient. The problem for "kids" is they can't make enough money to be independent. That's why I've said I would have been a stripper when I was 15 or 16 if I was allowed. I wanted to be financially independent, but there are no jobs for "kids" that will allow them to be independent. It's disingenuous to say "kids" shouldn't be given responsibility when they can't support themselves when there's no way they can. I looked into apartments when I was 16... no one would rent to me. I wanted in the worst way to be self-determining but I couldn't... that's why I moved out the day after I turned 18. And even now people don't take me seriously, it's fucking annoying. .

 

[Dis]

Sorry Bob, I've been drinking since I was quite young and fucking and fighting too. I don't think there's anything wrong with a 13 or 14 year old being given the responsibility of an "adult". I think the ideas our current culture has about age/responsibility are all fucked up. 200 years ago we didn't think 2x about calling "kids" adults and letting them self determine... If anything kids today are more aware and more ready to take control and be adults. I would have gladly taken responsibility for myself at 15 or 16 if our culture would have let me. I think people that want to keep young people artificially children are doing more of a disservice than anything else. Please... let us succeed or fail on our own terms, isn't that the same chance you got? If not, isn't it what you wanted???

Really? So then you have a full time job to replace the one you were fired from, and at the ripe old age of 18, you're fully on your own, supporting yourself, depending on nobody for anything, right? You have your own apartment, make your own rent payment, your own car, making your own car payment, your own insurance, making your own insurance payment, buying your own food, clothes, other necessities, etc, you are not dependent upon anyone else in any way, shape, or form for anything financial, and you've had all of that since you were 15 or 16?

Why do I find that so hard to believe?


If not, why not?

I was doing exactly that until I called bullshit on the crazed dyke that was harassing me. I was totally self sufficient. The problem for "kids" is they can't make enough money to be independent. That's why I've said I would have been a stripper when I was 15 or 16 if I was allowed. I wanted to be financially independent, but there are no jobs for "kids" that will allow them to be independent. It's disingenuous to say "kids" shouldn't be given responsibility when they can't support themselves when there's no way they can. I looked into apartments when I was 16... no one would rent to me. I wanted in the worst way to be self-determining but I couldn't... that's why I moved out the day after I turned 18. And even now people don't take me seriously, it's fucking annoying. .

Here's a clue for you... You're a KID.

KIDS brag about who and what they've fucked since when.

KIDS brag about what they'd do if they were considered adults.

KIDS brag about things like underage drinking, and what they can get away with.

You are NOT self-sufficient. You don't have the ability to BE self-sufficient.

How can you expect someone to take you seriously when you left yet another job because you felt "harassed", but yet didn't have another job to replace it? Adults don't get to make bonehead moves like that. We need a backup plan.

Try being a kid before you become a grownup.

 

[Amanda]

Really? So then you have a full time job to replace the one you were fired from, and at the ripe old age of 18, you're fully on your own, supporting yourself, depending on nobody for anything, right? You have your own apartment, make your own rent payment, your own car, making your own car payment, your own insurance, making your own insurance payment, buying your own food, clothes, other necessities, etc, you are not dependent upon anyone else in any way, shape, or form for anything financial, and you've had all of that since you were 15 or 16?

Why do I find that so hard to believe?


If not, why not?

I was doing exactly that until I called bullshit on the crazed dyke that was harassing me. I was totally self sufficient. The problem for "kids" is they can't make enough money to be independent. That's why I've said I would have been a stripper when I was 15 or 16 if I was allowed. I wanted to be financially independent, but there are no jobs for "kids" that will allow them to be independent. It's disingenuous to say "kids" shouldn't be given responsibility when they can't support themselves when there's no way they can. I looked into apartments when I was 16... no one would rent to me. I wanted in the worst way to be self-determining but I couldn't... that's why I moved out the day after I turned 18. And even now people don't take me seriously, it's fucking annoying. .

Here's a clue for you... You're a KID.

KIDS brag about who and what they've fucked since when.

KIDS brag about what they'd do if they were considered adults.

KIDS brag about things like underage drinking, and what they can get away with.

You are NOT self-sufficient. You don't have the ability to BE self-sufficient.

How can you expect someone to take you seriously when you left yet another job because you felt "harassed", but yet didn't have another job to replace it? Adults don't get to make bonehead moves like that. We need a backup plan.

Try being a kid before you become a grownup.

I didn't leave, I was fired. If I was a piece of shit I'd have filed a whistle blower lawsuit but I'm not.

I was doing everything for myself. I paid my own rent, my car insurance, etc. I'm close to making a decision about what to do next... it may be to join the Marines, it may be to move in with my bf, it may be to move back home with my parents. But I am self determining, becos it's my decision.

 

[Dis]

I was doing exactly that until I called bullshit on the crazed dyke that was harassing me. I was totally self sufficient. The problem for "kids" is they can't make enough money to be independent. That's why I've said I would have been a stripper when I was 15 or 16 if I was allowed. I wanted to be financially independent, but there are no jobs for "kids" that will allow them to be independent. It's disingenuous to say "kids" shouldn't be given responsibility when they can't support themselves when there's no way they can. I looked into apartments when I was 16... no one would rent to me. I wanted in the worst way to be self-determining but I couldn't... that's why I moved out the day after I turned 18. And even now people don't take me seriously, it's fucking annoying. .

Here's a clue for you... You're a KID.

KIDS brag about who and what they've fucked since when.

KIDS brag about what they'd do if they were considered adults.

KIDS brag about things like underage drinking, and what they can get away with.

You are NOT self-sufficient. You don't have the ability to BE self-sufficient.

How can you expect someone to take you seriously when you left yet another job because you felt "harassed", but yet didn't have another job to replace it? Adults don't get to make bonehead moves like that. We need a backup plan.

Try being a kid before you become a grownup.

I didn't leave, I was fired. If I was a piece of shit I'd have filed a whistle blower lawsuit but I'm not.

I was doing everything for myself. I paid my own rent, my car insurance, etc. I'm close to making a decision about what to do next... it may be to join the Marines, it may be to move in with my bf, it may be to move back home with my parents. But I am self determining, becos it's my decision.

Is it your decision, or the decision of the people that will be supporting you again?

Adults don't just get to choose who they'll move in with, unless of course it's YOUR house/apartment, and you are allowing someone else to live with you.

You just said yourself, kids don't make enough money to live on their own. Given you were part of a customer service phone service, I know damn well you weren't making enough to make rent, car payment, insurance, food, clothes, utilities, cell phone bills, "clubbing" money, etc. and still put enough money in savings to cover the month, or whatever you were out of work, as well as being out of work now, all on your own without the help of someone else.

 

[Agnapostate]

You just said yourself, kids don't make enough money to live on their own. Given you were part of a customer service phone service, I know damn well you weren't making enough to make rent, car payment, insurance, food, clothes, utilities, cell phone bills, "clubbing" money, etc. and still put enough money in savings to cover the month, or whatever you were out of work, as well as being out of work now, all on your own without the help of someone else.

Is/ought problem. You've identified a descriptive reality through observation without analyzing whether it has any prescriptive value. Things *are* that way, but *should* they be so? We've certainly seen that such a state of affairs can be otherwise, considering the vastly different conceptions and boundaries of "childhood" in other eras. As put by Joshua Meyrowitz:

[T]hose who insist upon the "naturalness" of our traditional conceptions of childhood are basing their belief on a very narrow cultural and historical perspective. Childhood and adulthood have been conceived of differently in different cultures, and child and adult roles have varied even within the same culture from one historical period to another.

It's of course a reality that adolescence is effectively a social construct created during the Industrial Revolution, and to be honest, modern conceptions of childhood are only a few centuries older, though there is admittedly a biological basis for them to some extent. That said, our maintenance of these social constructs has been problematic, in my view. As put by John Darling:

[There is a] common-sense perception, endemic in our culture, of children as rather silly and immature, unfit to be given responsibility. Yet such a view is clearly in danger of being self-confirming; for where children are seen as silly and immature, they will not be given responsibility, and where they are not given responsibility, they are likely to remain silly and immature.

So this is a bit broader than the little condescensions that you and others here see fit to hurl at Amanda on a routine basis; this is a matter of legitimate social theory, you see.

 

[Amanda]

Here's a clue for you... You're a KID.

KIDS brag about who and what they've fucked since when.

KIDS brag about what they'd do if they were considered adults.

KIDS brag about things like underage drinking, and what they can get away with.

You are NOT self-sufficient. You don't have the ability to BE self-sufficient.

How can you expect someone to take you seriously when you left yet another job because you felt "harassed", but yet didn't have another job to replace it? Adults don't get to make bonehead moves like that. We need a backup plan.

Try being a kid before you become a grownup.

I didn't leave, I was fired. If I was a piece of shit I'd have filed a whistle blower lawsuit but I'm not.

I was doing everything for myself. I paid my own rent, my car insurance, etc. I'm close to making a decision about what to do next... it may be to join the Marines, it may be to move in with my bf, it may be to move back home with my parents. But I am self determining, becos it's my decision.

Is it your decision, or the decision of the people that will be supporting you again?

Adults don't just get to choose who they'll move in with, unless of course it's YOUR house/apartment, and you are allowing someone else to live with you.

You just said yourself, kids don't make enough money to live on their own. Given you were part of a customer service phone service, I know damn well you weren't making enough to make rent, car payment, insurance, food, clothes, utilities, cell phone bills, "clubbing" money, etc. and still put enough money in savings to cover the month, or whatever you were out of work, as well as being out of work now, all on your own without the help of someone else.

Of course it's my decision. My parents would gladly welcome me home. My bf has been asking me to move in with him since the 1st week I knew him. And the Marines... I've taken the ASVAB they'd welcome me with open arms.

I was a damn good CSR. I made L2 in less than 3 months, which was unheard of where I was at. I was making enough $ that I covered all my bills and was putting away $200 a month toward my college education. I don't know why you think it wasn't possible but you're wrong. I was doing pretty ok for myself.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Quote: We don't need a nanny state

No nanny state just 21 for drinking and combat
Age 18 for the rest

Just don't put a 0 to 20 year olds life in danger
because it's not right.
21 to handle drinking and combat.

Baltimore Bob

If that's the case, we never would have won the war for our independence and would still be subjects of that incestuous British "royal" family.

Combat was, is and always will be a horrific thing but are you telling me the young people that fought in wars past were somehow smarter and more capable than young people with all their advantages over their past contemporaries today?

 

[IF_Common_29]

Non of this makes sense to me. Of course you should be able to serve your contry at the age of 18. That's when you can vote. Thats when the country looks at you as an "adult"

And for the argument about minors not being able to support themselves is stupid. Kids learn things in high school that adults have no clue how to do. I can promise that if a high school student brought math homework home his parents wouldn't have a clue how to do it. But if a parent gave a high schooler a check book and said balance this...the kid would know exactly how to do it.

And if you say that adults have more "experience" than minors, thats also a stupid statement. There a a lot of kids out there that are ten times smarter than their parents. And experience is just a term that means it took you a long time to get good at something. So experience is shit in this world. Some kids could take care of themselves very well...as for others not so good. But in the end most of them would survive. Survival instincts would kick in.

But then again...some students in high school wouldn't be able to survive on their own. It just depends on the circumstances.

But for the sake of the original thread....18 is a good age or else the military would change the age. Simple answer

 

[IF_Common_29]

Oh yea...and another point for the kids arguement.

We are at war because of....adults. Our economy is in the drain because of...adults.

So maybe adults need to be more responsible