Keystone is over

[Camp]

Just think if we used the money lost in tax cuts for the wealthy on infrastructure.....or the money we spent on invasions

What the hell?

Trans Canada is paying for the whole shebang.

We don't care. The folks who were against the pipeline won the battle to stop it. Quit being such a sore loser. We turned our tar sands dirty oil deposits into a National Monument and filled it with hikers, bikers and other kinds of tourist. Maybe you will get to visit it someday. You do what you want with your real estate but quit trying to drag us into your destructive and greedy behavior.

So rejoice in the fact that the Keystone has been pumping black gold to the Gulf since January 2014 and all your shit is a lie.

No lies silly girl. Some of our tar sands are still available, but the best parts are protected in National Monuments, Parks and Forest. The latest fight over your pipeline dream was about protecting the Ogallala Aquifer. The is the battle that was won.

Here is some data on what you accused me of lying about.

scientificamerican.com/article/tar-sands-mining-moves-to-utah/

Oh and get back to me when you remove all these pipelines.



Don't hand me bullshit and don't tell me no lies baby!

You should learn how to read a map before you post one. The one space on your map that is clean of pipelines is going to keep clean.
See the big purple section where the word Nebraska is written. Notice the big section around it that isn't cluttered with pipeline and instead is empty of pipelines? That is the area of the Ogallala Aquifer that the anti-pipeline folks have been trying to keep the pipeline out of. Nice map, but don't expect the big hollow spot to get filled in with lines anytime soon.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

We currently produce more than we import. The global supply is way up hence the low cost. Drilling operations are already slowing because of the price. Calling for more right now makes no sense.

the more one owns of a (finished) valuable commodity (not oil in the ground..oil reserves), the better one is in the long run.

Seriously? Who is going to invest millions into new drilling operations to not make any money off of it?

Nobody.

no one said anything extreme like that.
strawman.

Yeah that's right. Run away from your claim that a Repub pres would drill more now that idea has been shown as ridiculous.

This post is monumentally mega stupid.

Go back and read the thread.
What's the break even price for developing new wells?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There has never been a better time for our nation to invest in infrastructure

Historically low interest rates and a large number of construction workers out of work

so true. Too bad the Repubs are against investment and are more interested in give-aways to the special interests & well-connected

Just think if we used the money lost in tax cuts for the wealthy on infrastructure.....or the money we spent on invasions

What the hell?

Trans Canada is paying for the whole shebang.

We don't care. The folks who were against the pipeline won the battle to stop it. Quit being such a sore loser. We turned our tar sands dirty oil deposits into a National Monument and filled it with hikers, bikers and other kinds of tourist. Maybe you will get to visit it someday. You do what you want with your real estate but quit trying to drag us into your destructive and greedy behavior.

So rejoice in the fact that the Keystone has been pumping black gold to the Gulf since January 2014 and all your shit is a lie.

Then what's your beef?

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - it's toast...

... it's done - viya con dios...

... for now."

 

[Redfish]

First off the Keystone is built and has been delivering crude via the pipeline since 2014.

Secondly the canuck crude is being delivered by rail. And last but not least it's getting the coast via rail to barges.

Now I've been a conservationist for many years concentrating on water issues and rail to barges to get to the coast is truly dangerous. But Obama and the Democrats need all those enviro whacko contributors.

That's all this is about. No one is stopping the oil.

So it seems we never needed it

Tell that to the unions that would have gotten jobs from it. Obama dumped on the unions that supported him twice.

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Redfish]

Tell that to the unions that would have gotten jobs from it. Obama dumped on the unions that supported him twice.

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

What kind of infrastructure does not require government support?

support can be permits or funding. Permits are paid for by the private company building the project (Keystone pipeline) government funded projects are funded by taxpayers (interstate highways).

Grants of huge amounts of rights of way on private property are more than just permit fees. The government offers a judicial system that determines whether those grants of right away and eminent domain are valid and approved. The taxpayers bear the expense of operating the judicial system that makes those determinations, hence, without taxpayer support the rights of way for such a project as a pipeline is impossible. In this case, in particular, taxpayer publicly owned land is involved. The taxpayers actually have to cede real estate that could be used for other purposes to the private use and even ownership to a private corporation. The value of parcels of publicly owned properties is greatly devalued in exchange for profits for private individuals and businesses.

the land is leased, the owners retain title and get monthly rental income checks. In the rare case where the govt buys land the owners are paid fair market value, which in most cases exceeds what they could get in the private market.

 

[dannyboys]

Liberals are constantly bitching that we need to build infrastructure, but then they pull this shit.

Don't ever listen to liberals, because they are lying every time they open their mouths.

The Right won't build infrastructure. The pipeline is not infrastructure, it transports Canadian oil for export to other countries. We need bridges, roads, high speed rail.

You say the Right won't build infrastructure, but you do not have a citation to back you up. That makes it look like you are a rabid partisan to pulls things out of his ass.

Also, high speed train is a colossal waste of money. I've got a car, so I don''t need it. Or I can take a plane, which travels twice as fast as high speed train.

I did a quick search on republicans voting against infrastructure bill and a lot of articles came up. I won't post one. I'll post the search. Just click the link below and choose your article. The republicans don't want to spend any money on infrastructure. That would mean they were serving the nation as a whole instead of just the 1%.

republicans vote against infrastructure bill - Bing

As for high speed rail. Your comment about it continues to show how selfish, conceited and self centered you are. If something isn't used by our or doesn't benefit you then you are against it. No matter that it benefits everyone including you.

Just because you don't want to use that high speed rail doesn't mean millions of Americans don't want to either.

America doesn't revolve around you and what you want. In fact, you mean nothing to those who make the decisions concerning our nation. They don't even know or care that you exist.

One last comment, just think of how many cars are off the road because of that high speed train. That means that traffic for you isn't as bad and you're not wasting your time sitting in traffic.

Would any part of the high speed rail cross over privately owned land? Would any part of the high speed rail cross over the wonderful pristine beautiful publically owned lands? Therefore "ruining" the value of the land that could have been put to "better" uses. Imagine what the sound of the fucking train would do to the mating habits of the gopher?
What if the land owners didn't want a fucking high speed train screaming through their yard? You can't just "Steal" people's land through 'eminent domain'!
Why should the 1% ers be able to fuck up the wilderness just because they want to get somewhere in a hurry?
The $ needed to be raised to build the high speed rail system would be raised through some sort of 'bond' issue scheme. How many of these 'bonds etc would be purchased by Chinese investors. Then who would "own" the system?
Remember the bridge in SF that was built using all Chinese steel?
How much 'Chinese steel' would be used for the rails?
You want to ride in a train going 200 miles an hour through pristine wilderness on rails made in China?
And don't bother giving us some bullshit lie that 'existing' rail beds would mostly be used. They can't even get fucking AMTRACK up to speed using the existing rail beds.
A high speed rail system would fundamentally alter thousands of acres of now pristine privately and publically owned land. You can't just 'go around' someone's property if they don't want a high speed train screaming through their property at 200 miles an hour.
You're talking about EMINENT DOMAIN AKA "STEALING" land, as some here would term it on a major scale.
GET IT?
XL WILL be built eventually.
Then Warren's rail cars will be recycled into GM car parts.

 

[Redfish]

What the hell?

Trans Canada is paying for the whole shebang.

We don't care. The folks who were against the pipeline won the battle to stop it. Quit being such a sore loser. We turned our tar sands dirty oil deposits into a National Monument and filled it with hikers, bikers and other kinds of tourist. Maybe you will get to visit it someday. You do what you want with your real estate but quit trying to drag us into your destructive and greedy behavior.

So rejoice in the fact that the Keystone has been pumping black gold to the Gulf since January 2014 and all your shit is a lie.

No lies silly girl. Some of our tar sands are still available, but the best parts are protected in National Monuments, Parks and Forest. The latest fight over your pipeline dream was about protecting the Ogallala Aquifer. The is the battle that was won.

Here is some data on what you accused me of lying about.

scientificamerican.com/article/tar-sands-mining-moves-to-utah/

Oh and get back to me when you remove all these pipelines.



Don't hand me bullshit and don't tell me no lies baby!

You should learn how to read a map before you post one. The one space on your map that is clean of pipelines is going to keep clean.
See the big purple section where the word Nebraska is written. Notice the big section around it that isn't cluttered with pipeline and instead is empty of pipelines? That is the area of the Ogallala Aquifer that the anti-pipeline folks have been trying to keep the pipeline out of. Nice map, but don't expect the big hollow spot to get filled in with lines anytime soon.

Right, instead fill it with Warren Buffet's trains and trucks full of crude. Are you fricken libs so dumb that you don't really know what this is about?

 

[Redfish]

Liberals are constantly bitching that we need to build infrastructure, but then they pull this shit.

Don't ever listen to liberals, because they are lying every time they open their mouths.

The Right won't build infrastructure. The pipeline is not infrastructure, it transports Canadian oil for export to other countries. We need bridges, roads, high speed rail.

You say the Right won't build infrastructure, but you do not have a citation to back you up. That makes it look like you are a rabid partisan to pulls things out of his ass.

Also, high speed train is a colossal waste of money. I've got a car, so I don''t need it. Or I can take a plane, which travels twice as fast as high speed train.

I did a quick search on republicans voting against infrastructure bill and a lot of articles came up. I won't post one. I'll post the search. Just click the link below and choose your article. The republicans don't want to spend any money on infrastructure. That would mean they were serving the nation as a whole instead of just the 1%.

republicans vote against infrastructure bill - Bing

As for high speed rail. Your comment about it continues to show how selfish, conceited and self centered you are. If something isn't used by our or doesn't benefit you then you are against it. No matter that it benefits everyone including you.

Just because you don't want to use that high speed rail doesn't mean millions of Americans don't want to either.

America doesn't revolve around you and what you want. In fact, you mean nothing to those who make the decisions concerning our nation. They don't even know or care that you exist.

One last comment, just think of how many cars are off the road because of that high speed train. That means that traffic for you isn't as bad and you're not wasting your time sitting in traffic.

Would any part of the high speed rail cross over privately owned land? Would any part of the high speed rail cross over the wonderful pristine beautiful publically owned lands? Therefore "ruining" the value of the land that could have been put to "better" uses. Imagine what the sound of the fucking train would do to the mating habits of the gopher?
What if the land owners didn't want a fucking high speed train screaming through their yard? You can't just "Steal" people's land through 'eminent domain'!
Why should the 1% ers be able to fuck up the wilderness just because they want to get somewhere in a hurry?
The $ needed to be raised to build the high speed rail system would be raised through some sort of 'bond' issue scheme. How many of these 'bonds etc would be purchased by Chinese investors. Then who would "own" the system?
Remember the bridge in SF that was built using all Chinese steel?
How much 'Chinese steel' would be used for the rails?
You want to ride in a train going 200 miles an hour through pristine wilderness on rails made in China?
And don't bother giving us some bullshit lie that 'existing' rail beds would mostly be used. They can't even get fucking AMTRACK up to speed using the existing rail beds.
A high speed rail system would fundamentally alter thousands of acres of now pristine privately and publically owned land. You can't just 'go around' someone's property if they don't want a high speed train screaming through their property at 200 miles an hour.
You're talking about EMINENT DOMAIN AKA "STEALING" land, as some here would term it on a major scale.
GET IT?
XL WILL be built eventually.
Then Warren's rail cars will be recycled into GM car parts.

once again I must remind you that posting facts causes liberals little heads to implode. they are so fully invested in the bullshit fed them by obozo and the left wing lying media that the truth is poison to them.

 

[rightwinger]

So it seems we never needed it

Tell that to the unions that would have gotten jobs from it. Obama dumped on the unions that supported him twice.

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

 

[Redfish]

Tell that to the unions that would have gotten jobs from it. Obama dumped on the unions that supported him twice.

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

What the federal government is authorized to do with our tax money is clearly defined in the constitution.

Its primary function is to keep us save from enemies foreign and domestic.

A welfare state was not envisioned or desired by the founders.

And, federal tax revenue does not come from ALL of we the people. Half of americans are paying nothing towards funding the federal govt.

 

[rightwinger]

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

What the federal government is authorized to do with our tax money is clearly defined in the constitution.

Its primary function is to keep us save from enemies foreign and domestic.

A welfare state was not envisioned or desired by the founders.

And, federal tax revenue does not come from ALL of we the people. Half of americans are paying nothing towards funding the federal govt.

Only to nutjob Libertarians who give the Constitution Biblical reverence. In fact, the founders did not want to restrict what future governments are allowed to do.
In reality, the federal government is given wide latitude as determined by We the People

 

[rightwinger]

A welfare state was not envisioned by the founders. That is because it was 1780 and there were no governments on earth caring for the less fortunate. Most governments at the time were more concerned with caring for royalty than caring for the people

 

[dannyboys]

Obama offered the unions hundreds of thousands of more infrastructure jobs that were blocked by Republicans

Republicans only cared about five thousand temporary Keystone jobs

If Republicans were willing to approve the other infrastructure project, I'm sure they could have gotten Keystone too

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

What the federal government is authorized to do with our tax money is clearly defined in the constitution.

Its primary function is to keep us save from enemies foreign and domestic.

A welfare state was not envisioned or desired by the founders.

And, federal tax revenue does not come from ALL of we the people. Half of americans are paying nothing towards funding the federal govt.

If you take the total number of employees in the US. Say about 122 million.
Leaving about sixty million employees to pay for everything local state and the Federal government spends on what has basically become a 'welfare state'.
The top 20% pay about 84% of the federal taxes. The bottom 50% pay about 3%.
Leaving the 'middle class' to pay about 13%
Do the fucking math people!

 

[Redfish]

Bullshit. give us a list. you might also remember the difference between government funded infrastructure and privately funded infrastructure jobs. One requires the expenditure of tax revenue, the other does not and we are already 18 trillion in debt and borrowing 40% of what the govt is spending.

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

What the federal government is authorized to do with our tax money is clearly defined in the constitution.

Its primary function is to keep us save from enemies foreign and domestic.

A welfare state was not envisioned or desired by the founders.

And, federal tax revenue does not come from ALL of we the people. Half of americans are paying nothing towards funding the federal govt.

Only to nutjob Libertarians who give the Constitution Biblical reverence. In fact, the founders did not want to restrict what future governments are allowed to do.
In reality, the federal government is given wide latitude as determined by We the People

The constitution is to be taken literally, its meanings and intents are clear. There is very little latitude allowed by the constitution, the founders drafted it specifically to limit the power of the federal government, not to give it "latitude".

If "we the people" want to change the constitution, there are provisions for that, thats why we have amendments. It is not up to the president, congress, or the supreme court to change the constitution. Only "we the people" i.e. the states, can do that.

 

[rightwinger]

The private sector does not fund infrastructure ....but they sure as hell benefit from it

Really? and tax revenue comes from who? Everything the govt does is funded by the private sector. WTF is wrong with you?

Tax revenue comes from We the People and it needs to be used to benefit We the people.

What the federal government is authorized to do with our tax money is clearly defined in the constitution.

Its primary function is to keep us save from enemies foreign and domestic.

A welfare state was not envisioned or desired by the founders.

And, federal tax revenue does not come from ALL of we the people. Half of americans are paying nothing towards funding the federal govt.

Only to nutjob Libertarians who give the Constitution Biblical reverence. In fact, the founders did not want to restrict what future governments are allowed to do.
In reality, the federal government is given wide latitude as determined by We the People

The constitution is to be taken literally, its meanings and intents are clear. There is very little latitude allowed by the constitution, the founders drafted it specifically to limit the power of the federal government, not to give it "latitude".

If "we the people" want to change the constitution, there are provisions for that, thats why we have amendments. It is not up to the president, congress, or the supreme court to change the constitution. Only "we the people" i.e. the states, can do that.

It's meanings and intents have never been clear

That is why we have a judicial system

The Constitution was drafted to establish a Federal Government......hence the name "Constitution"

 

[dannyboys]

the more one owns of a (finished) valuable commodity (not oil in the ground..oil reserves), the better one is in the long run.

Seriously? Who is going to invest millions into new drilling operations to not make any money off of it?

Nobody.

no one said anything extreme like that.
strawman.

Yeah that's right. Run away from your claim that a Repub pres would drill more now that idea has been shown as ridiculous.

This post is monumentally mega stupid.

Go back and read the thread.
What's the break even price for developing new wells?

You're a dummy with always lots to say with rarely any substance.
The oil companies don't "develop wells".
They drill them.
They drill wells intended for oil production. Gas production. And for water injection sites.
Well drilling is going on all over N. America right now. Not for oil/gas production per se.
Many many wells are simply drilled and capped for later use.

 

[Dot Com]

arrivaderche foreign pipeline

 

[Camp]

We don't care. The folks who were against the pipeline won the battle to stop it. Quit being such a sore loser. We turned our tar sands dirty oil deposits into a National Monument and filled it with hikers, bikers and other kinds of tourist. Maybe you will get to visit it someday. You do what you want with your real estate but quit trying to drag us into your destructive and greedy behavior.

So rejoice in the fact that the Keystone has been pumping black gold to the Gulf since January 2014 and all your shit is a lie.

No lies silly girl. Some of our tar sands are still available, but the best parts are protected in National Monuments, Parks and Forest. The latest fight over your pipeline dream was about protecting the Ogallala Aquifer. The is the battle that was won.

Here is some data on what you accused me of lying about.

scientificamerican.com/article/tar-sands-mining-moves-to-utah/

Oh and get back to me when you remove all these pipelines.



Don't hand me bullshit and don't tell me no lies baby!

You should learn how to read a map before you post one. The one space on your map that is clean of pipelines is going to keep clean.
See the big purple section where the word Nebraska is written. Notice the big section around it that isn't cluttered with pipeline and instead is empty of pipelines? That is the area of the Ogallala Aquifer that the anti-pipeline folks have been trying to keep the pipeline out of. Nice map, but don't expect the big hollow spot to get filled in with lines anytime soon.

Right, instead fill it with Warren Buffet's trains and trucks full of crude. Are you fricken libs so dumb that you don't really know what this is about?

It was about a lot of things. Different parties had different concerns and agenda's. You don't get to put your agenda about how the oil is transported at the top of the list just because it is the most important concern to you. Several factions rose to the top of the list because they had the organizations of concerned citizens and fought themselves to the top of the list. One group was the people concerned about the misuse of eminent domain. Another group was the people concerned about the safe-keeping of the Ogallala Aquifer that had not yet been subjected to the dangers of pipelines. Yet more groups were the people concerned with the breaking of the spirit of treaties with native American Tribes in the region. Those groups won. It really doesn't matter what agenda's the pro-pipeline factions and groups represented. In the end, your concern about how the oil was transported was placed at the bottom of the list for influencing the final decision.

 

[Camp]

Seriously? Who is going to invest millions into new drilling operations to not make any money off of it?

Nobody.

no one said anything extreme like that.
strawman.

Yeah that's right. Run away from your claim that a Repub pres would drill more now that idea has been shown as ridiculous.

This post is monumentally mega stupid.

Go back and read the thread.
What's the break even price for developing new wells?

You're a dummy with always lots to say with rarely any substance.
The oil companies don't "develop wells".
They drill them.
They drill wells intended for oil production. Gas production. And for water injection sites.
Well drilling is going on all over N. America right now. Not for oil/gas production per se.
Many many wells are simply drilled and capped for later use.

Dannyboy, the oil companies have things called a development stage and during that stage the wells are actually called development well. The development stage is the most expensive stage of getting to the oil and getting it up to the surface.

investopedia.com/terms/d/development-well.asp

oilandgasmps.org/resources/development.php