Karzai Contemplating Taliban Over Obama's Government

[geauxtohell]

The Opium Trade is the main source of financing for many people in Afghanistan and has been for hundreds of years. This was true long long before there was an Al Qaeda & Taliban. It's part of their culture & history. We just don't have the right to tell them what they can or can't grow. If people around the World want to use opium than so be it. This is not the poor Afghan farmers' fault. If people in the West want to get high then that's the West's problem. They should deal with their own people on that issue.

Kicking down poor farmers' doors and destroying their crops is not a legitimate tactical move in my opinion. In fact it only results in the opposite effect. The Afghan People don't want this "Drug War" and never asked for it. This was also never part of the original mission either. They should just end their "Drug War" immediately. That could help mend some wounds with the Afghan People. I hope they start listening. They're losing the Afghan People.

Interdicting your enemies main source of financing is tactically legitimate and only makes good sense.

Equating it to the larger "war on drugs" arguement is silly. We can craw a direct line from our actions against the poppy trade and the Taliban's viability to conduct attacks. The farmers were put on notice when I was there in '04 (we were told that hash and opium was "hands off" before that) so there has been plenty of time for the people to adjust. I don't blame an Afghani farmer for growing a crop that brings exponentially more/jherub than alfalfa. However, they run the risk of getting slashed and burned.

Furthermore, the larger goal is to not have the number GDP in Afghanistan be a black market item that brings the government absolutely no revenue.

BTW, the Taliban also banned poppy cultivation.

Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Bring all of our troops home around the globe, the war is over and has been for years.

 

[geauxtohell]

Here comes some four year old trying to educate the grown ups, and trying to act like he is somebody.

Amusing.

Are you talking to me? Unlike you, I've actually been to Afghanistan.

You are in need of education on the matter, but a closed mind is refractive to knowledge.

 

[eots]

thats because we are stealing all his herion

 

[Titanic Sailor]

The neocommunists have to practice at losing wars, it's what they do. See Vietnam for historical perspective.

 

[geauxtohell]

How would our American Citizen Farmers feel if the Afghans came to their country and began telling them what they can & can't grow? I'm pretty sure our American farmers would be pretty damn outraged and offended. The Afghan "Drug War" is stupid and our soldiers should have never been ordered to take part in it. That was not the original mission over there. When will they learn?

Oh, American farmers make a habit out of growing opium and marijuania without fear of retribution?

Give me a break.

We have latitude to change our tactics and goals with the changing picture on the ground. Just because we didn't spell out our 2010 moves in 2002 doesn't mean we can't react and act to the situation on the ground?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

If you've been to Afghanistan, then you are even more of a clown for your arrogance, and your position.

Ewe are one of those idiots who will throw all of their energy in being wrong about an issue.

Get the F out of Afghanistan, and Iraq, and all nations. Jackass.

We can't wait for ewe to wake up and get on the same page as us. Grow up, and now. Afghanistan is bad policy. Period. The people hate ewe, get used to it.

 

[geauxtohell]

There is no 'good war', both Iraq and Afghanistan were pointless for different reasons.

People have to solve their own problems, unless we intend to kill them in large numbers they will not admit defeat and the drip-drab nature of the war goes on forever, its the afghan way.

I agree there is no "good war".

I disagree that Afghanistan was pointless. Demonstrating that we can and will remove governmental leaders and infrastructure that facilitate attacks on our soil is a good message and logical foreign policy measure (IMO). Unfortunately, that rather simple message was lost due to the ineptness of the Bush Administrations "GWOT". That, and losing the moral high ground after 9-11, to address Islamic Fundamentalism (by going into Iraq) was Bush's greatest failing.

I am hopeful we have a mind to wrap up Afghanistan. There is no much more we can do there. If the right things would have been done from the onset, when we had momentum, we would have been out of there long ago.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

What was your role in Afghanistan, opium tester?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Karzai is going to sign a power-sharing deal with the Taliban in the end. That's just my opinion anyway. Then he can really tell the British & Americans to "F*ck Off." What will all the sacrifice in lives & treasure mean when the Taliban actually gain in power rather than lose it? Something to ponder i guess.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

When you get done fixing Afghanistan, go fix Bangladesh, Africa, and South America. Have fun.

 

[geauxtohell]

If you've been to Afghanistan, then you are even more of a clown for your arrogance, and your position.

Pointing out your ignorance on this issue, and explaining why, is not arrogance. A spade will be called a spade.

Ewe are one of those idiots who will throw all of their energy in being wrong about an issue.

Maybe I am right. Maybe I am wrong. Far be it from you to make a intelligent point on this thread, and your inability to articulate your points in a rational manner is not my problem.

Get the F out of Afghanistan, and Iraq, and all nations. Jackass.

Okay.

We can't wait for ewe to wake up and get on the same page as us. Grow up, and now. Afghanistan is bad policy. Period. The people hate ewe, get used to it.

If you keep saying it over and over and over, maybe it will stick...............

 

[Titanic Sailor]

WTF?

Stunning.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Ewe are dumb as a rock. Remember I told ewe that, because some day ewe will see how right I am.



It's for your own good kid.

 

[geauxtohell]

What was your role in Afghanistan, opium tester?

For six months I was a reconnaissance platoon leader, which also entailed being in charge of the snipers.

For six months, I was the battalion civil military affairs officer, which entailed building schools, clinics, wells, etc.

So I saw both ends of our tactical approach to interdict the Taliban.

That's my perspective.

 

[geauxtohell]

Karzai is going to sign a power-sharing deal with the Taliban in the end. That's just my opinion anyway. Then he can really tell the British & Americans to "F*ck Off." What will all the sacrifice in lives & treasure mean when the Taliban actually gain in power rather than losing it? Something to ponder i guess.

I agree with you. The bottom line is that the Taliban is still a popular movement in Afghanistan that represents the sentiment of a certain demographic. They were not "outlawed" from participating in the '04 elections and the Taliban fielded candidates.

I think it's astute for Karzai to try an dbring them into the fold and "reconciliation" has been going on for a long, long time. Most people in this country really have no idea of what has been going on in Afghansitan and stumble upon this stuff and flip out.

I doubt Karzai will tell us to fuck off. There has been a constant and inevitable wrangling between Karzai and US forces over who calls the shots on certain manners. We almost always defer to the Afghans.

I agree it's time to get out of there, just not for the reasons that have been articulated on this thread.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Might wanna remember who put this dumb fucker in power in the first place as well as where he came from.......

Taliban era

American Special Forces and Hamid Karzai during Operation Enduring Freedom in October 2001.

When the Taliban emerged in the mid 1990s, Karzai, like many other Afghans, supported them, because he saw them as a force that could finally end the violence and corruption in his country. However, he later broke with them and refused to serve as their ambassador to the United Nations, telling friends he felt the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was wrongly using them.[18] Karzai recently stated that "there were many wonderful people in the Taliban."[19]

Karzai lived in exile in Quetta, Pakistan, where he worked to reinstate the former Afghan king, Zahir Shah. On the morning of 14 July 1999, Karzai's father, Abdul Ahad Karzai, was gunned down as he was coming home from a mosque in the city of Quetta. Reports state that the Taliban carried out the assassination.[18] Hamid Karzai worked closely with Ahmad Shah Massoud in 2001 to help gather support for the anti-Taliban movement. In an interview in February 2005, Karzai criticised the role the United States played in empowering the Taliban to take control in Afghanistan. He claimed that he spent many years before the September 11, 2001, attacks in USA warning embassies about the threat, but that the West failed to respond, describing it as an act of "neglect, selfishness and short-sightedness."[citation needed]

As the U.S. military was preparing for a confrontation with the Taliban in September 2001, Karzai began urging NATO nations to purge his country of Al-Qaeda. "These Arabs, together with their foreign supporters and the Taliban, destroyed miles and miles of homes and orchards and vineyards," he told BBC, "They have killed Afghans. They have trained their guns on Afghan lives... We want them out."[18]
[edit] The Karzai administration
Main article: Karzai administration
Karzai appointed as President of the Afghan Transitional Administration at the July 2002, Loya Jirga in Kabul, Afghanistan.

After the 7 October 2001, Operation Enduring Freedom, Mujahideen loyal to the Northern Alliance and other groups worked with the US military to overthrow the Taliban and muster support for a new government in Afghanistan. Karzai and his group were in Quetta, Pakistan, where they began their covert operation. At this stage he warned his fighters by stating:

"We might be captured the moment we enter Afghanistan and be killed. We have 60 percent chance of death and 40 percent chance to live and survive. Winning was no consideration. We could not even think of that. We got on two motorbikes. We drove into Afghanistan."[20]

In October 2001, Hamid Karzai and his group of fighters survived a US friendly fire missile attack in southern Afghanistan. The group suffered injuries and was treated in the United States; Karzai received injuries to his facial nerves as can sometimes be noticed during his speeches.[21] On 4 November 2001, American forces flew Karzai out of Afghanistan for protection.[22]
Karzai speaking before the U.S. Congress in June 2004

In December 2001, political leaders gathered in Germany to agree on new leadership structures. Under the 5 December Bonn Agreement they formed an interim Transitional Administration and named Karzai Chairman of a 29-member governing committee. He was sworn in as leader on 22 December. The Loya Jirga of 13 June 2002, appointed Karzai Interim holder of the new position as President of the Afghan Transitional Administration.[23] Former members of the Northern Alliance remained extremely influential, most notably Vice President Mohammed Fahim, who also served as the Defense Minister.

Karzai re-enacted the original coronation of Ahmad Shah Durrani at the shrine of Sher-i-Surkh outside of Kandahar where he had leaders of various Afghan tribes, including a descendent of the religious leader that originally chose Ahmad Shah Durrani as key players in this event.[24] Further evidence that Karzai views himself fulfilling a Durrani monarch's role arise from statements furnished by close allies within his government.[25] His younger brother, Ahmad Wali Karzai, has made statements to a similar effect.[26]

After Karzai was installed into power, his actual authority outside the capital city of Kabul was said to be so limited that he was often derided as the "Mayor of Kabul". The situation was particularly delicate since Karzai and his administration have not been equipped either financially or politically to influence reforms outside of the region around the capital city of Kabul. Other areas, particularly the more remote ones, are currently and have historically been under the influence of various local leaders. Karzai has been, to varying degrees of success, attempting to negotiate and form amicable alliances with them for the benefit of Afghanistan as a whole, instead of aggressively fighting them and risking an uprising.[citation needed]

In 2004 he rejected a US proposal to end poppy production in Afghanistan through aerial spraying of chemical herbicides, fearing that it would harm the economic situation of his countrymen. Moreover, Karzai's younger brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai – who partially helped finance Karzai's presidential campaign – was rumored to be involved in narcotic deals.[27] Karzai said that he has sought in writing a number of times, but failed to obtain, U.S. proof of allegations that Ahmed Wali is involved in illegal drugs.[28][28]
[edit] 2004 Presidential candidacy
Main article: Afghan presidential election, 2004
Inauguration of Hamid Karzai on 7 December 2004, after winning the presidential election.

When Karzai was a candidate in the 9 October 2004 presidential election, he won 21 of the 34 provinces, defeating his 22 opponents and becoming the first democratically elected leader of Afghanistan.

Although his campaigning was limited due to fears of violence, elections passed without significant incident. Following investigation by the UN of alleged voting irregularities, the national election commission on 3 November declared Karzai winner, without runoff, with 55.4% of the vote. This represented 4.3 million of the total 8.1 million votes cast. The election took place safely in spite of a surge of insurgent activity.[29]

Karzai was officially sworn in as President of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan on 7 December 2004, at a formal ceremony in Kabul. Many interpreted the ceremony as a symbolically important "new start" for the war-torn nation. Notable guests at the inauguration included the country's former King, Zahir Shah, three former US presidents, and US Vice President Dick Cheney.

Hamid Karzai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bush Jr. and Cheney put this asshole in power, and now, because of the fucked up deals they made, Karzai thinks that he's able to get Obama to do the same stupid shit that Bush Jr. did.

Might wanna lay the blame for this at the feet of who is truly responsible.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ewe are dumb as a rock. Remember I told ewe that, because some day ewe will see how right I am.



It's for your own good kid.

And you have certainly demonstrated your intelligence on this thread.

BTW, I get it: ewe = sheep. You can stop butchering the English language now.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What was your role in Afghanistan, opium tester?

For six months I was a reconnaissance platoon leader, which also entailed being in charge of the snipers.

For six months, I was the battalion civil military affairs officer, which entailed building schools, clinics, wells, etc.

So I saw both ends of our tactical approach to interdict the Taliban.

That's my perspective.

Thank You for your service. I am not trying to insult you. Just expressing how i feel. I do respect you and your opinion. Thanks again.

 

[JakeStarkey]

When Bush showed up, the Afghans slaughtered all of the Arabs, and the Taliban ran for the hills. Now, the Taliban are back thanks to Obama's drug war and corrupt government alternative for the Afghans. I figure the Arabs will be moving back soon too. Thanks Obama.

The Taliban is back because Bush did not finish the job, moron.

The pres pulled out helicopter and special ops units needed for the unique warfare operations in that part of the world.

Sure, try running that argument past the American people, and then watch yourself get pasted into the ground this fall.