Karpinski sais she would testify Rummy odered torture

[RetiredGySgt]

Good GOD, what part of this....

though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said.

....

Do you fail to GRASP.

You have stated over an over the classification applied to her, THIS, your own source CLEARLY states it DOES NO SUCH thing.

Now unless her name is the ONLY thing in the entire Paragraph you haven't a leg to stand on.

 

[maineman]

so Fitzgerald doesn't know what the hell he is talking about, but the retired marine corps gunny sergeant somehow does?

whatever.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS.... are you suggesting that she did not serve overseas within five years of the story by Novak?

Irrelevant , NO ONE was charged with outing her. Whether she was or was NOT Covert has no bearing what so ever. Unless you or someone can provide evidence that Libby told someone she was Covert, his telling some she worked for the CIA was public Knowledge as evidenced by the switchboard freely informing anyone that asked that , YES, she worked for the CIA.

And that is the whole stinking problem. He was convicted of obstructing an investigation when he had absolutely no motive and no reason to do so. The Prosecutor made the claim Cheney ordered her Covert status disclosed, yet there is no evidence that The Vice President knew she was Covert and absolutely NO evidence he told anyone to "out" her as BEING Covert. AND Libby was not EVER charged with disclosing she was Covert.

It is NOT against the law to tell someone she worked for the CIA when that is information freely gained by calling the CIA and asking them and them saying YES she works for us.

As to my personal opinion ( which of course you say means nothing) she does NOT fit the requirements of the law. But it is a moot point as, again, NO ONE was ever charged with disclosing her supposed Covert status.

Your being disengenious by refusing to take Care4all to task for her patently ridiculous claim that because her name appeared in a classified report that PROVES she was Covert and everyone reading the report would KNOW it.

Libby was convicted of lying. Lying about telling someone she worked for the CIA. If the prosecutor could convince a jury that then IF she were Covert and Libby KNEW she was Covert he could easily have used that to convince them of that offense also.

That he did not even try means one or more of several obvious options. Plume was NOT Covert. Libby did not know she might be Covert. Cheney never ordered Libby to tell people she was a Covert agent. The fact the CIA openly told people she worked for the CIA destroyed any claim that the mere passing of information she worked there was a crime.

 

[Care4all]

Irrelevant , NO ONE was charged with outing her. Whether she was or was NOT Covert has no bearing what so ever. Unless you or someone can provide evidence that Libby told someone she was Covert, his telling some she worked for the CIA was public Knowledge as evidenced by the switchboard freely informing anyone that asked that , YES, she worked for the CIA.

And that is the whole stinking problem. He was convicted of obstructing an investigation when he had absolutely no motive and no reason to do so. The Prosecutor made the claim Cheney ordered her Covert status disclosed, yet there is no evidence that The Vice President knew she was Covert and absolutely NO evidence he told anyone to "out" her as BEING Covert. AND Libby was not EVER charged with disclosing she was Covert.

It is NOT against the law to tell someone she worked for the CIA when that is information freely gained by calling the CIA and asking them and them saying YES she works for us.

As to my personal opinion ( which of course you say means nothing) she does NOT fit the requirements of the law. But it is a moot point as, again, NO ONE was ever charged with disclosing her supposed Covert status.

Your being disengenious by refusing to take Care4all to task for her patently ridiculous claim that because her name appeared in a classified report that PROVES she was Covert and everyone reading the report would KNOW it.

Libby was convicted of lying. Lying about telling someone she worked for the CIA. If the prosecutor could convince a jury that then IF she were Covert and Libby KNEW she was Covert he could easily have used that to convince them of that offense also.

That he did not even try means one or more of several obvious options. Plume was NOT Covert. Libby did not know she might be Covert. Cheney never ordered Libby to tell people she was a Covert agent. The fact the CIA openly told people she worked for the CIA destroyed any claim that the mere passing of information she worked there was a crime.

please, for the love of God, supply the link supporting the switchboard operator claim SGT.

IF you have supplied it somewhere, give the post number.

this is an important clue, if this happened, i think the context of such should be examined, sooooooo please, supply the link that verifies YOUR CLAIM.

and libby's confidentiallity agreement was introduced as evidence with his signature which defines libby's responsibility when handling any classified document.

care

 

[RetiredGySgt]

please, for the love of God, supply the link supporting the switchboard operator claim SGT.

IF you have supplied it somewhere, give the post number.

this is an important clue, if this happened, i think the context of such should be examined, sooooooo please, supply the link that verifies YOUR CLAIM.

and libby's confidentiallity agreement was introduced as evidence with his signature which defines libby's responsibility when handling any classified document.

care

You have to be kidding. One of the reporters called them and was told she worked there. But of course you just "missed" that little piece of the puzzle right?

While we are demanding things, again, support your claim that your own source disputes. namely that any document the Vice President or Libby had EVER identified Plume as Covert.

 

[Care4all]

You have to be kidding. One of the reporters called them and was told she worked there. But of course you just "missed" that little piece of the puzzle right?

While we are demanding things, again, support your claim that your own source disputes. namely that any document the Vice President or Libby had EVER identified Plume as Covert.

Sgt, the mark SECRET was put next to her name and the contents of the one specific paragraph that mentioned her and her involvement with the CIA.

This is STANDARD classified PROCEDURE for identifying COVERT OPERATIVES in Classified documents.

She meets the criteria of the law, to the tee....which Fitzgerald introduced in the Libby Trial.

She also had the CIA Director vet and clear/ declassify information with Congress, this statement of her duties during theoversight committee said she was a covert operative brought out by our Congress.

Valerie Plame testified under oath that she was a classified UNDERCOVER officer.

The Division of the Dept she worked for was a highly classified area of the CIA and more than 50% of the employees in her department were classified....

There is NO QUESTION in anyone's mind that she was a covert undercover intelligence officer for the CIA.

Only in the heads of those that support the vice president and his disgraceful, behavior come out here and fight like hell to turn truth in to fiction.

NOW, PLEASE give a link to your statement regarding plame being outed by the switchboard operator....otherwise it is nothing but mere garbage....I have provided MANY LINKS as support to ALL of my comments regarding this issue....YOU, NEED to do the same, otherwise what you say is nothing but hot air. Come on.... Debate with the big guys and do your part....

I have done a google on switchboard operators and Plame and libby and have gotten nothing on this...I have tried to find a link FOR YOU, but I have not found one!

 

[red states rule]

Sgt, the mark SECRET was put next to her name and the contents of the one specific paragraph that mentioned her and her involvement with the CIA.

This is STANDARD classified PROCEDURE for identifying COVERT OPERATIVES in Classified documents.

She meets the criteria of the law, to the tee....which Fitzgerald introduced in the Libby Trial.

She also had the CIA Director vet and clear/ declassify information with Congress, this statement of her duties during theoversight committee said she was a covert operative brought out by our Congress.

Valerie Plame testified under oath that she was a classified UNDERCOVER officer.

The Division of the Dept she worked for was a highly classified area of the CIA and more than 50% of the employees in her department were classified....

There is NO QUESTION in anyone's mind that she was a covert undercover intelligence officer for the CIA.

Only in the heads of those that support the vice president and his disgraceful, behavior come out here and fight like hell to turn truth in to fiction.

NOW, PLEASE give a link to your statement regarding plame being outed by the switchboard operator....otherwise it is nothing but mere garbage....I have provided MANY LINKS as support to ALL of my comments regarding this issue....YOU, NEED to do the same, otherwise what you say is nothing but hot air. Come on.... Debate with the big guys and do your part....

I have done a google on switchboard operators and Plame and libby and have gotten nothing on this...I have tried to find a link FOR YOU, but I have not found one!

Will you libs give it a rest!

Even Fitz did not charge anyone with leaking, we know the leak did NOT come from the WH, we know she was nothing more then a paper pusher and not a female 007

There was no crime here - but the left keeps trying to manufacture one

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Your own source CLEARLY states that the document you keep claiming proves she was a covert agent does no such thing.

And now your trying to be slick with classified and covert. Once again, just for you, JUST BECAUSE some one handles or is responsible for or creates classified documents or information does NOT make them Covert NOR does it make it illegal to tell people what agency they work for.

Maineman knows this as well and his silence is par for the course, any ally of his can make any outrageous claim they want, even in threads he is involved in and he will not make any effort to correct them. Standard fare for the left.

 

[Care4all]

Your own source CLEARLY states that the document you keep claiming proves she was a covert agent does no such thing.

And now your trying to be slick with classified and covert. Once again, just for you, JUST BECAUSE some one handles or is responsible for or creates classified documents or information does NOT make them Covert NOR does it make it illegal to tell people what agency they work for.

Maineman knows this as well and his silence is par for the course, any ally of his can make any outrageous claim they want, even in threads he is involved in and he will not make any effort to correct them. Standard fare for the left.

It gets a little tiring having to supply EVERYTHING for you yet you supply NOTHING for us...

Read sgt, read....

STANDARD PROCEDURE in an already classified document, for identifying a covert operative is to mark SECRET next to where the operative is mentioned.

Libby and Cheney and Rove all KNOW the operating standard, because they all had to sign a confidentiality procedure form stating they KNOW all classified procedures and will ABIDE by them.

This was ALSO introduced in the trial, and low and behold, Libby signed it....confirming he knew this STANDARD procedures and protocol, INCLUDING the marking of SECRET next to the agents name and the context with her name.

You are just so full of it, it is amazing.

First you come out here and say she was not covert because she did not serve undercover overseas within the last 5 years....and when you are shown the FACTS and are proven WRONG,

Then you go on and try to say that YOU had the same classified clearance as Valerie Plame, and that this whole issue is JUST about how this classified document was handled and had nothing to do with an outing of her and that there was NO WAY they could know she was an undercover officer...

And again you have been proven wrong, by the fact that SECRET was noted by Valerie's name and the content of the paragraph containing her name ALSO, which is the standard protocol for identifying covert operatives....per policy that Libby had acknowledged and signed, when he was hired.

It is hard to agree to disagree with you sgt on this, because you have been wrong on all of your statements and issues.


Now where is the link to plame being outed by a switchboard operator?
Care

 

[CockySOB]

Bob Novak, "My Role in the Valerie Plame Leak Story" (feel free to Google for other publications of Novak's article, this was the first publication I found)

When Fitzgerald arrived, he had a third waiver in hand -- from Bill Harlow, the CIA public information officer who was my CIA source for the column confirming Mrs. Wilson's identity.

Harlow confirmed Plame's employment at the CIA to Novak.

 

[Gunny]

just because someone is disgruntled does not mean that their testimony is automatically false. Those who fear the consequences of what Karpinski might say are already attacking her in an attempt to minimize the damage.

Nor does it mean it is automatically gospel as TM would have us believe each and every accusation against the administration is.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bob Novak, "My Role in the Valerie Plame Leak Story" (feel free to Google for other publications of Novak's article, this was the first publication I found)


Harlow confirmed Plame's employment at the CIA to Novak.

Now do not confuse care with facts, she is much to busy making shit up.

 

[Care4all]

Bob Novak, "My Role in the Valerie Plame Leak Story" (feel free to Google for other publications of Novak's article, this was the first publication I found)


Harlow confirmed Plame's employment at the CIA to Novak.

Harlow, said he begged novak, as best as he could, without giving away any more classified information than what was given to him already, to NOT put her name and positions in his article... is what was said in the oversight hearing on plame? Novak said he, harlow tried but did not order him not to go with it, so he did.

Harlow admitted that he wished he could have done better, he wished he could have stopped novak from outing her?

care

 

[CockySOB]

Now do not confuse care with facts, she is much to busy making shit up.

I know. Care already flat-out said she didn't care about the law in one statement, and then in another professes her disgust (hatred) for Bush, Cheney, etc.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It gets a little tiring having to supply EVERYTHING for you yet you supply NOTHING for us...

Read sgt, read....

STANDARD PROCEDURE in an already classified document, for identifying a covert operative is to mark SECRET next to where the operative is mentioned.

Libby and Cheney and Rove all KNOW the operating standard, because they all had to sign a confidentiality procedure form stating they KNOW all classified procedures and will ABIDE by them.

This was ALSO introduced in the trial, and low and behold, Libby signed it....confirming he knew this STANDARD procedures and protocol, INCLUDING the marking of SECRET next to the agents name and the context with her name.

You are just so full of it, it is amazing.

First you come out here and say she was not covert because she did not serve undercover overseas within the last 5 years....and when you are shown the FACTS and are proven WRONG,

Then you go on and try to say that YOU had the same classified clearance as Valerie Plame, and that this whole issue is JUST about how this classified document was handled and had nothing to do with an outing of her and that there was NO WAY they could know she was an undercover officer...

And again you have been proven wrong, by the fact that SECRET was noted by Valerie's name and the content of the paragraph containing her name ALSO, which is the standard protocol for identifying covert operatives....per policy that Libby had acknowledged and signed, when he was hired.

It is hard to agree to disagree with you sgt on this, because you have been wrong on all of your statements and issues.


Now where is the link to plame being outed by a switchboard operator?
Care

Your constant refrain about what is and what is not "standard" procedure and is recognized by everyone dealing with classified documents simply is NOT true, nor is it even supported by your OWN links. YOUR own link CLEARLY states that Plame was NOT identified as covert in the document. An expert ( one assumes) on such procedures STATES it in your OWN link.

Provide us with your expert knowledge and training on classified documents and procedures used by the US Government. Further provide us with a link to this docment that you keep claiming proves your point ( ohh wait, it is classified, you can not, nor could you have see it to make the claims you have.) all you have is a link to a source that CLEARLY states Plame was NOT identified as a covert or protected asset in said document.

If it were as simple as you claim was is Libby not even charged with outing her?

 

[Care4all]

Your constant refrain about what is and what is not "standard" procedure and is recognized by everyone dealing with classified documents simply is NOT true, nor is it even supported by your OWN links. YOUR own link CLEARLY states that Plame was NOT identified as covert in the document. An expert ( one assumes) on such procedures STATES it in your OWN link.

Provide us with your expert knowledge and training on classified documents and procedures used by the US Government. Further provide us with a link to this docment that you keep claiming proves your point ( ohh wait, it is classified, you can not, nor could you have see it to make the claims you have.) all you have is a link to a source that CLEARLY states Plame was NOT identified as a covert or protected asset in said document.

If it were as simple as you claim was is Libby not even charged with outing her?

my own quote, from the washington Post STATES that SECRET WAS MARKED BY HER NAME and the Paragraph that her name and the other top secret information about her was contained.

The Trial Transcripts, WHICH you REFUSE to read has the pertinent information regarding this.... Fitzgerald introduced Libby's confidentiality/classified protocol agreement with the USA, with his signature on it, with all of the protocol and procedures that Libby acknowledged and agreed to follow.... This protocol of the USA gvt on handling classified information STATES that SECRET marked next to an agent's name identifies the information containing that person as top secret.

The classified document, that contained only one paragraph about wilson in a three page document, had SECRET placed next to the paragraph with Valerie Wilson in it. This, according to procedure, identifies the person named as an undercover operative, and according to the USA's protocol, SPECIAL handling must be done, with the contents of this specific paragraph regarding that agent.

ONE PARAGRAPH in this entire 3 page classified document had SECRET next to it and it was the paragraph that contained Valerie Wilson and her involvement with the search for yellowcake in Niger.

NOT ONE OTHER paragraph in the ENTIRE DOCUMENT, was marked SECRET.


The vice president does not follow any laws of our great land, he has stated he is exempt and this is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of his continual spitting on our constitution and laws. Impeach the SOB, indict the SOB, DO SOMETHING for goodness sakes to get this Man of Lawlessness out of the oval office and out of our own country all together if heavenly possible....

NO ONE HAS THE BALLS to do it....Not Congress, Not the Justice Dept, Not Fitzgerald....no one, they seem to be AFRAID of him, and I don't blame them, he's a scarey guy, but justice should prevail...someone should have the guts to do what is RIGHT AND JUST....it's our only hope, ob1kanobi!

care

 

[Care4all]

I know. Care already flat-out said she didn't care about the law in one statement, and then in another professes her disgust (hatred) for Bush, Cheney, etc.

I did NOT flat out say I did not CARE about the Law, In context, I said that IF the whitehouse did not break the law regarding the Identity protection Act, then they broke the laws on handling Classified information. YOu and your friends decided to blow that sentiment of mine out of proportion!

I do NOT believe that President Bush was aware early on that the Vice President had done what he did with his minions Cocky. I just don't!

When the President came before us initially he seemed sincere when he said he would get to the bottom of the leak and fire whoever did this.... I truely believed him at the time. I think he was "left behind' when it comes to what Cheney had done....until later, where Bush was left speechless regarding this issue once everything came to "light". (I think Bush is afraid of Cheney too! )

So, I do not blame the President, I do blame Cheney. I do not blame Libby because I believe that Libby was told by the VP, that the document was declassified....even if it was NOT declassified by the VP in the proper, per protocol, manner.

It is the only reason Libby, a man of the Law, a man who knows the Law inside out, would follow the VP's direction on this...

IN MY OPINION. (Please note, the last couple of paragraphs, are my opinion, not anything that I can put a link to.)

Care

 

[red states rule]

After Rep. Duncan Hunter's eye-opening description of how terrorist suspects are living high on the hog at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, prisoners from around the world will no doubt be clamoring for a 'gulag' cell of their own.

Appearing on Fox News Sunday, the House Armed Services Committee chairman began by detailing tonight's dinner menu at Gitmo - which all detainees, including one suspected of being involved in the 9/11 plot, will enjoy.

"For Sunday they're going to be having Orange Glazed Chicken, Fresh Fruit Roupee, Steamed Peas and Mushrooms, Rice Pilaf - we treat them very well," he told Fox.

Last night, Hunter said, the U.S. "torture victims" enjoyed the same kind of gourmet fare, including an entree of "Lemon-baked Fish."

On the other hand, feeding the detainees MRE's, the standard fare given to our troops on the front lines, is strictly verboten - considered an "abuse" under restrictions imposed by Congress, Hunter said.

The top House Republican also noted that the religious practices of the terrorist suspects held at the U.S. "gulag" are scrupulously accommodated, explaining:

"We give them honey and dates when they break fast at Ramadan. We give them prayer beads and prayer oil - all paid for [by the U.S. taxpayer.]

"In fact," he said, "if you did that for American GI's - if you had a call to prayer five times a day - the ACLU would sue on the basis that we violated the separation between church and state."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421406/posts

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Your constant refrain about what is and what is not "standard" procedure and is recognized by everyone dealing with classified documents simply is NOT true, nor is it even supported by your OWN links. YOUR own link CLEARLY states that Plame was NOT identified as covert in the document. An expert ( one assumes) on such procedures STATES it in your OWN link.

Provide us with your expert knowledge and training on classified documents and procedures used by the US Government. Further provide us with a link to this docment that you keep claiming proves your point ( ohh wait, it is classified, you can not, nor could you have see it to make the claims you have.) all you have is a link to a source that CLEARLY states Plame was NOT identified as a covert or protected asset in said document.

If it were as simple as you claim was is Libby not even charged with outing her?

Just for you, a reminder from your OWN source....


Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said.

 

[Care4all]

Just for you, a reminder from your OWN source....


Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said.

just a reminder for you from this same article:

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

you took the comment out of context, to try to make some sort of point, i presume....?

what is it.....it is okay that libby spoke about classified information marked at the SECRET level, to reporters???

care