Just to remind what we are debating here everyday.

[BlackSand]

"a condition that affects people of both genders"

.

They snuck that one in on you ... "Both" mean two ...
Any deviation from the two would be an attempt to pretend otherwise.

People who have the desire to pretend, don't have the authority or power to make others pretend with them.

.​

 

[Harpy Eagle]

yes, and perversions are one of them.

True. Other species do not make porn, do not engage in oral sex with their partners. Lots of perversion we have. Most of us enjoy them.

Do you really believe that transgendering is NORMAL? and should be accepted as a normal option for human beings?

I do not think "normal" exist. I do not have an issue with people that feel they are transgender. it does not impact my life at all.

Is it a choice like being gay or straight?

Being gay is not a choice. I do not know about you, but i never said "yeah, I think I will choose to like women". It is what came naturally for me.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Nobody sane believes there’s a distinction to be made between sex and gender. Gender is a replacement word for sex….that’s all.

Yes, it is used as a replacement word for sex, but it was never meant to be used that way. It was never used that way until the moral majority freaks decided that the word "sex" was a dirty word and started using gender in its place. Growing up in the 60s and 70s nobody ever used the words interchangeably.

 

[rightwinger]

.

In the two cases you stated there are still two genders ... And transgender is the desire, and not a gender.

I don't care if they identify as a kangaroo.
Nothing compels me to enable their desire to pretend.

Get over it ...

.​

So?
We are only looking to allow people to identify with the gender they feel psychologically and not force conformity to biological gender

Get over it…….None of your business

 

[BlackSand]

So?
We are only looking to allow people to identify with the gender they feel psychologically and not force conformity to biological gender

Get over it…….None of your business

.

If it is none of my business, then you wouldn't need to tell me to get over it.

If you want to make it my business then you are the person that needs to get over it,
because you don't have the power or authority to make me change.

I am not forcing anyone to do anything,
and they cannot force me to change the meaning of words or the ordered society we live in.

Get over it ...

.​

 

[okfine]

Conservatives are so obsessed with sexuality

Little pito syndrome.

 

[Roudy]

We're engaged in a well-mannered version of a civil war. The left just hasn't started shooting yet.

They will if Trump runs and wins in 2024.

 

[Pellinore]

show us transgendering in any mammal besides homo sapiens, It is not a normal mammalian condition. It is a mental illness primarily found only in homo sapiens.

That's because gender is a function of culture, and other mammals either don't have enough culture, or we just don't understand it. Golfing Gator is correct, "sex" and "gender" are two different things, but there are a lot of people in this country who don't know that. It's not taught very comprehensively in schools, so I don't blame you for only knowing the very simplest of definitions.

"Sex" is biological. Men are usually taller, with upper body strength and boy-parts. Women are usually shorter, with wider hips and girl-parts. Almost everyone you've ever met falls into one or the other. It's pretty straightforward, and the same here and now as it is across national borders or back in time. That's why your birth certificate lists "Sex" and the 19th Amendment outlaws voting restrictions "on account of sex," rather than gender.

"Gender" is your role in society. In our society, men are more likely to be called Steve, wear pants, and play with Hot Wheels, because names, clothes, and toys are all aspects of culture. Women are more likely to go by Stephanie, wear dresses, and play with dolls. It varies by culture and time; for example, men wear kilts in Scotland, thobes in Arabia, and kimonos in Japan, and in Ancient Rome they wore togas, all of which could come across as dresses here. That's because our culture mostly associates dresses with women, and pants with men.

And there are some people who just like the opposite gender's roles, that's all. There are plenty of historical accounts to show that there have always been trans people, but the social pressure of conformity has kept most (but not all) of them from expressing it. I'm guessing that you're Gen X or older, because this wasn't even discussed much before about the 1990s ...

... mostly. It was there, though. Tell me; when you were growing up, was there a girl or two in your class that everyone considered a "tomboy"?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Guess what?

Some men identify as women

Still a man

Some women identify as men

Still a woman

Get over it

Deal with it

 

[rightwinger]

Still a man


Still a woman


Deal with it

Thankfully, our society has become more tolerant of those who identify as a different gender.
It enrages Conservatives who want to continue to drive gays and transgenders from our society

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Thankfully, our society has become more tolerant of those who identify as a different gender.
It enrages Conservatives who want to continue to drive gays and transgenders from our society

I have no problem with people being who they want to be. If you want to parade around in a dress go for it. It's your life. What I have a problem with is this militant offensive against common sense and the idea that if people don't entertain the mental defects of others even when it flies in the face of that common sense they are somehow bigoted and prejudice. When we have Ph Ds telling people women can have penises and men can get pregnant we've lost our grasp on reality as a society.

Your position is NOT in line with the vast majority of this country, but if that's the hill you people want to die on be my guest. As usual, you'll learn it the hard way.

 

[BlackSand]

I have no problem with people being who they want to be. If you want to parade around in a dress go for it. It's your life. What I have a problem with is this militant offensive against common sense and the idea that if people don't entertain the mental defects of others even when it flies in the face of that common sense they are somehow bigoted and prejudice. When we have Ph Ds telling people women can have penises and men can get pregnant we've lost our grasp on reality as a society.

Your position is NOT in line with the vast majority of this country, but if that's the hill you people want to die on be my guest. As usual, you'll learn it the hard way.

.

That's a good way of looking at it.

If a man comes up to me in a dress, tells me his name is Lilly, or whatever ... I don't care.
I will call him Lilly ... But he will always be a "him", he", "man".

He doesn't have the Right to make me pretend he isn't.
He cannot change the meaning of those words.

.​

 

[rightwinger]

I have no problem with people being who they want to be. If you want to parade around in a dress go for it. It's your life. What I have a problem with is this militant offensive against common sense and the idea that if people don't entertain the mental defects of others even when it flies in the face of that common sense they are somehow bigoted and prejudice. When we have Ph Ds telling people women can have penises and men can get pregnant we've lost our grasp on reality as a society.

Your position is NOT in line with the vast majority of this country, but if that's the hill you people want to die on be my guest. As usual, you'll learn it the hard way.

I believe people should live and let live

Other than the fact they make Conservatives go……Yuk
Transgenders harm no one

Leave them alone

 

[BlackSand]

I believe people should live and let live

Other than the fact they make Conservatives go……Yuk
Transgenders harm no one

Leave them alone

.

An accountant can go to the gym and work out, take classes in swordplay, dress up in a suit of armor and go to a Renaissance Fair.
I don't care if he wants to identify as a Knight or not ... He still cannot sack Normandy or use the Ladies' Room.
He can play his games to his heart's content ... But we are not required to play along with whatever he may think up next.

Just stop it ...

.​

 

[Redfish]

So?
We are only looking to allow people to identify with the gender they feel psychologically and not force conformity to biological gender

Get over it…….None of your business

correct, then why are you libs constantly demanding that we call it normal? why are you constantly in our faces with your perversions. YOU make it our business because you cannot stand anyone disagreeing with your perverse lifestyles.

 

[Redfish]

I believe people should live and let live

Other than the fact they make Conservatives go……Yuk
Transgenders harm no one

Leave them alone

OK, then you libs leave the believers alone, leave the conservatives alone, leave the straight people alone. you define hypocrisy.

 

[Redfish]

That's because gender is a function of culture, and other mammals either don't have enough culture, or we just don't understand it. Golfing Gator is correct, "sex" and "gender" are two different things, but there are a lot of people in this country who don't know that. It's not taught very comprehensively in schools, so I don't blame you for only knowing the very simplest of definitions.

"Sex" is biological. Men are usually taller, with upper body strength and boy-parts. Women are usually shorter, with wider hips and girl-parts. Almost everyone you've ever met falls into one or the other. It's pretty straightforward, and the same here and now as it is across national borders or back in time. That's why your birth certificate lists "Sex" and the 19th Amendment outlaws voting restrictions "on account of sex," rather than gender.

"Gender" is your role in society. In our society, men are more likely to be called Steve, wear pants, and play with Hot Wheels, because names, clothes, and toys are all aspects of culture. Women are more likely to go by Stephanie, wear dresses, and play with dolls. It varies by culture and time; for example, men wear kilts in Scotland, thobes in Arabia, and kimonos in Japan, and in Ancient Rome they wore togas, all of which could come across as dresses here. That's because our culture mostly associates dresses with women, and pants with men.

And there are some people who just like the opposite gender's roles, that's all. There are plenty of historical accounts to show that there have always been trans people, but the social pressure of conformity has kept most (but not all) of them from expressing it. I'm guessing that you're Gen X or older, because this wasn't even discussed much before about the 1990s ...

... mostly. It was there, though. Tell me; when you were growing up, was there a girl or two in your class that everyone considered a "tomboy"?

to your last sentence, Yes, but she was still a girl, she did not think she was a boy. or want to become one.

 

[Redfish]

That's because gender is a function of culture, and other mammals either don't have enough culture, or we just don't understand it. Golfing Gator is correct, "sex" and "gender" are two different things, but there are a lot of people in this country who don't know that. It's not taught very comprehensively in schools, so I don't blame you for only knowing the very simplest of definitions.

"Sex" is biological. Men are usually taller, with upper body strength and boy-parts. Women are usually shorter, with wider hips and girl-parts. Almost everyone you've ever met falls into one or the other. It's pretty straightforward, and the same here and now as it is across national borders or back in time. That's why your birth certificate lists "Sex" and the 19th Amendment outlaws voting restrictions "on account of sex," rather than gender.

"Gender" is your role in society. In our society, men are more likely to be called Steve, wear pants, and play with Hot Wheels, because names, clothes, and toys are all aspects of culture. Women are more likely to go by Stephanie, wear dresses, and play with dolls. It varies by culture and time; for example, men wear kilts in Scotland, thobes in Arabia, and kimonos in Japan, and in Ancient Rome they wore togas, all of which could come across as dresses here. That's because our culture mostly associates dresses with women, and pants with men.

And there are some people who just like the opposite gender's roles, that's all. There are plenty of historical accounts to show that there have always been trans people, but the social pressure of conformity has kept most (but not all) of them from expressing it. I'm guessing that you're Gen X or older, because this wasn't even discussed much before about the 1990s ...

... mostly. It was there, though. Tell me; when you were growing up, was there a girl or two in your class that everyone considered a "tomboy"?

do you make any distinction between gay and trans? seems like you think its the same thing. having never been either, I don't know, can you explain?

 

[Pellinore]

do you make any distinction between gay and trans? seems like you think its the same thing. having never been either, I don't know, can you explain?

Yes, they are two different things.

Trans is a function of gender identity; that is, which set of social norms someone prefers. If someone is born as one sex but prefers to live as the other gender, "trans" means "across" or "the other" so they are literally "transgender." The opposite is somewhat awkward-sounding "cisgender," pronounced SISS-gender, meaning literally "this side of gender."

Being gay is a function of sexual preference; that is, to whom you are sexually attracted. "Homosexual" means literally "same sex" and "heterosexual" means literally "opposite sex," and then there are bi- (both), pan- (all), a- (none), and more. In case you are tempted to ask me who a trans person considers to be same sex or opposite sex, I do not know. I suspect that there are as many variations to the standard as there are trans people.

So they answer two different questions about the person: How they express themselves, and who they want to bone. Many people identify as one but not the other, but many other people are either or both or some variations thereof, or may even change their identity over time. There are a lot more variations than the simple pink-and-blue they taught us in nursery school, but is anything only as complex as what we learned as little kids?

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

One is biological, one is not.

It is odd how many people do not know this. It is as if you never even graduated high school.

One is biological, one is fantasy.