"Just say NO!"

[Wry Catcher]

I'm suggesting an alternative to what we've been doing for 40 years.
The immigration issue is a canard. I have no interest in you or putting words in your mouth.

How about this for an alternative:

We gather up all of the gangsters and put them together. Tell them that who ever comes out alive at the end can deal as much drugs as they want. Please feel to kill each other!

We stop paying for rehabs and medical care. Let the addicts just curl up and die.

You cant pick and choose what drugs you legalize. If you legalize pot there will be an argument to legalize them all. But for what its worth I think taxing drugs is a great idea!

Whew, load of my mind! I have no interest in your either.

LMAO, where to start? Let's gather up all the bankers and put them all together. Tell them who ever comes out alive at the end can deal as many derivatives as they want.
I did not suggest crack or meth be decriminalized, or that these drugs be unregulated by the DOJ.
Only an asshole would suggest we stop treating addicts and let them curl up and die.
Gee, give a mouse a cookie...
You're as stupid as crusaderfrank, and that's quite something.

 

[syrenn]

LMAO, where to start? Let's gather up all the bankers and put them all together. Tell them who ever comes out alive at the end can deal as many derivatives as they want.
I did not suggest crack or meth be decriminalized, or that these drugs be unregulated by the DOJ.
Only an asshole would suggest we stop treating addicts and let them curl up and die.
Gee, give a mouse a cookie...
You're as stupid as crusaderfrank, and that's quite something.

The gangsters kill each other as it is now, why not let them do it for real! They want drug turf and are willing to kill for it, let them. Just leave the innocent people out of it.

And tell me why should we the people have to pay for treating addicts?

Again don't put words in my mouth. Try reading. I did not say you suggested crack or meth be decriminalized. I said that you cant pick and choose what you legalize. If you take your pet pot of the list there will be an argument to take them all off the list. Again don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Wry Catcher]

LMAO, where to start? Let's gather up all the bankers and put them all together. Tell them who ever comes out alive at the end can deal as many derivatives as they want.
I did not suggest crack or meth be decriminalized, or that these drugs be unregulated by the DOJ.
Only an asshole would suggest we stop treating addicts and let them curl up and die.
Gee, give a mouse a cookie...
You're as stupid as crusaderfrank, and that's quite something.

The gangsters kill each other as it is now, why not let them do it for real! They want drug turf and are willing to kill for it, let them. Just leave the innocent people out of it.

And tell me why should we the people have to pay for treating addicts?

Again don't put words in my mouth. Try reading. I did not say you suggested crack or meth be decriminalized. I said that you cant pick and choose what you legalize. If you take your pet pot of the list there will be an argument to take them all off the list. Again don't put words in my mouth.

Assuming someone using Latin as a signature had a quality education, why do you not see the error in your reasoning? I could (if I looked in my old copy of Copi) find the latin word for a slippery slope fallacy, but that would be pretentious.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Sobering reality of America's drug war After 40 years and $1 trillion, the U.S. war on drugs has met none of its goals."
From an article posted here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100513/ap_on_re_us/failed_drug_wa

The hysteria surrounding illegal immigrants who simply want to work, escape the violence in their home and have their children attend schools much better then was available to them is a canard. The real problem is drug smuggeling and the insanity of doing the same thing over and over and over again for 40 years.

The Justice Dept. needs to remove MJ from the list of schedule I drugs, and each state should be allowed to regulate MJ production, sales, possession and use.

It is interesting to me that you bring up the issue of illegals yourself.

There is no denying that the drug cartels need contacts in this country to operate, sell and smuggle. Who better to use then the illegals. Make no mistake a good deal of the illegals are here just for criminal drug purposes.

Even if what you say is correct, and let's assume everyone who crosses the border into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, are seeking work as drug dealers, isn't allowing each state in the union the right to regulate MJ a way to limit jobs for drug dealers?
If it's legal and regulated, whose going to buy from the dealer on the corner?

You fucking idiot. They aren't "seeking" work as drug traders. They are dealers. They move children back and forth across the border with drugs in their stomachs. They kidnap, torture and kill people. They zip across the country with their trunks full of coke, heroin & mj. They are not a random few. Hang out in Yakama sometime if you doubt it. See the gang activity in small towns like Walla Walla and Hermiston which are far, far away from the borders...but where there are communities of farm workers and Indian reservations, good for hiding out.

Half the kids on the res these days have Mexican last names...and no dads in sight. Dads are always "visiting relatives" south of the border, or just gone. Our jails are overflowing with Mexicans who don't come from this area. Go figure. They're in there for things like murder, assault, drug crimes. I don't see a one who is in jail because he wanted to work.

My cousin married a kingpin who smuggled metric TONS of cocaine into the country before being busted with 10 mil in his pockets. They had to recruit special people to go after him, because he could pay any bribe. He was friends with the presidente of Mexico and bribed his way out of prison within a couple of months the first time.

Second time, they made it stick. The only reason is probably because somebody threatened to kill his kids, my cousin's children, if he came out again. That's the only thing that would have worked for him. I remember when my cousin was telling me what he did for a living. She told me he had a trucking company (and he did). She told me his latest cargo was a 5 year old girl whose evil mother had stolen her from her father.

You fucking protected, silver-spooned, rose-tinted glassed, dick sucking pansies who think the borders don't need to be held fast, and illegal immigrants have nothing but the best of intentions, who like to pretend that the drug trade doesn't hurt anyone, need to go fucking sit with that bastard in prison in Mexico City and see the types of people who laugh at us, take advantage of us, and fucking kill us. They're a lovely bunch, and they'd eat you for breakfast. They don't need your pathetic sucking up, and they'd shit on you as soon as look at you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It is interesting to me that you bring up the issue of illegals yourself.

There is no denying that the drug cartels need contacts in this country to operate, sell and smuggle. Who better to use then the illegals. Make no mistake a good deal of the illegals are here just for criminal drug purposes.

Even if what you say is correct, and let's assume everyone who crosses the border into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, are seeking work as drug dealers, isn't allowing each state in the union the right to regulate MJ a way to limit jobs for drug dealers?
If it's legal and regulated, whose going to buy from the dealer on the corner?

You fucking idiot. They aren't "seeking" work as drug traders. They are dealers. They move children back and forth across the border with drugs in their stomachs. They kidnap, torture and kill people. They zip across the country with their trunks full of coke, heroin & mj. They are not a random few. Hang out in Yakama sometime if you doubt it. See the gang activity in small towns like Walla Walla and Hermiston which are far, far away from the borders...but where there are communities of farm workers and Indian reservations, good for hiding out.

Half the kids on the res these days have Mexican last names...and no dads in sight. Dads are always "visiting relatives" south of the border, or just gone. Our jails are overflowing with Mexicans who don't come from this area. Go figure. They're in there for things like murder, assault, drug crimes. I don't see a one who is in jail because he wanted to work.

My cousin married a kingpin who smuggled metric TONS of cocaine into the country before being busted with 10 mil in his pockets. They had to recruit special people to go after him, because he could pay any bribe. He was friends with the presidente of Mexico and bribed his way out of prison within a couple of months the first time.

Second time, they made it stick. The only reason is probably because somebody threatened to kill his kids, my cousin's children, if he came out again. That's the only thing that would have worked for him. I remember when my cousin was telling me what he did for a living. She told me he had a trucking company (and he did). She told me his latest cargo was a 5 year old girl whose evil mother had stolen her from her father.

You fucking protected, silver-spooned, rose-tinted glassed, dick sucking pansies who think the borders don't need to be held fast, and illegal immigrants have nothing but the best of intentions, who like to pretend that the drug trade doesn't hurt anyone, need to go fucking sit with that bastard in prison in Mexico City and see the types of people who laugh at us, take advantage of us, and fucking kill us. They're a lovely bunch, and they'd eat you for breakfast. They don't need your pathetic sucking up, and they'd shit on you as soon as look at you.

Nice rant, lots of profanity makes it colorful. Too bad you get your facts wrong. Of course are border needs to be secure, why wasn't it after 9/11? One would think after the attack on New York any president would have done so. Now, nearly ten years later those who were in power from Sept. 2001 until Jan 2007 and did nothing are making border security a campaign issue. I suspect all the rape and murder you say is going on is partly your fault, you voted for Bush and Republicans didn't you?

 

[AllieBaba]

Bush caused border crossers to turn to crime, instead of skipping merrily across to "work"?

You think you come across as sophisticated. But you really don't. You come across as bigoted, naive, and arrogant.

Dangerous combo. Doesn't lend itself to secure borders.

 

[HUGGY]

The war on drugs is too big to fail.

 

[California Girl]

"Sobering reality of America's drug war After 40 years and $1 trillion, the U.S. war on drugs has met none of its goals."
From an article posted here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100513/ap_on_re_us/failed_drug_wa

The hysteria surrounding illegal immigrants who simply want to work, escape the violence in their home and have their children attend schools much better then was available to them is a canard. The real problem is drug smuggeling and the insanity of doing the same thing over and over and over again for 40 years.

The Justice Dept. needs to remove MJ from the list of schedule I drugs, and each state should be allowed to regulate MJ production, sales, possession and use.

You're so lame.

He probably thinks this thread is about him.


I like that song.

 

[California Girl]

Intelligent terrorist need do nothing more than sit back and watch us wreck our own society with drugs. If I was Osama, I wouldn't bother with organizing suicide bombers etc in the US. I'd just ensure the flow of drugs, sit back and wait.

We are a moronic society.

 

[syrenn]

Assuming someone using Latin as a signature had a quality education, why do you not see the error in your reasoning? I could (if I looked in my old copy of Copi) find the latin word for a slippery slope fallacy, but that would be pretentious.

Assuming you understand Latin it might not hurt you to learn a thing or two. Is there an error in my reasoning? Please enlighten me.

And lets not go on about slippery slopes. Rather the pot calling the kettle black now isn't it? Wasn't that the grounds of you your OP? You remember don't you? Legalize marijuana.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Twenty-two hits, and not one comment. No wonder people troll, real issues, not politicized, don't stir the emotions. Thinking and offering solutions and not fixing blame on Obama or Bush, Reagan or Carter blame must be too boring.

Wry....I was one of the hits. However, I have no answers to offer. Do we give up on the war against drugs? That would be wrong, IMHO. But, we certainly cannot afford to keep throwing money at a failed and obviously flawed program either. So, what is the solution? I have no idea.

This is one of the things that always astounds me. The war on drugs kills more people than drugs do, costs us billions of dollars, and is an utter failure, but we cannot stop doing it.

WHY THE FUCK NOT?

Why can't we wake up and admit we were wrong about something? We are adults and we have made mistakes before. Prohibition of alcohol was a big mistake, and we admitted it. Did the world come to an end after that? Did civilization fall apart? As far as I can tell, we didn't even provoke God to come down and smite us like Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[code1211]

Hmmmm . . . the "War" on drugs.

Does that mean that drug users are enemy combatants? Holy bongs! We could stick 'em in a detention center, deny them an attorney, keep them there forever - hell, we could even water board 'em!!!
WA HOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Probably not. That water belongs in the bong like God intended.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Assuming someone using Latin as a signature had a quality education, why do you not see the error in your reasoning? I could (if I looked in my old copy of Copi) find the latin word for a slippery slope fallacy, but that would be pretentious.

Assuming you understand Latin it might not hurt you to learn a thing or two. Is there an error in my reasoning? Please enlighten me.

And lets not go on about slippery slopes. Rather the pot calling the kettle black now isn't it? Wasn't that the grounds of you your OP? You remember don't you? Legalize marijuana.

You read but don't comprehend. I suggested quite clearly that MJ be removed from the list of schedule I drugs. That does not "legalize" MJ; it allows each state to regulate it's production, distribution, sales, etc. and to tax it, if a state sees fit. If a state chooses not to regulate it, that state can continue to enforce state laws making cultivation, possession, distribtution, etc a crime.
A slippery slope is not an argument, it's faulty reasoning. From my notes, logic 101:
The arguer claims that a sort of chain reaction, usually ending in some dire consequence, will take place, but there's really not enough evidence for that assumption. The arguer asserts that if we take even one step onto the "slippery slope," (remove MJ from the schedule I) we will end up sliding all the way to the bottom; he or she assumes we can't stop halfway down the hill.

 

[editec]

Twenty-two hits, and not one comment. No wonder people troll, real issues, not politicized, don't stir the emotions. Thinking and offering solutions and not fixing blame on Obama or Bush, Reagan or Carter blame must be too boring.

Nah, it's not that.

Its probably just that so many of us completely agree with you (people on both the left and the right) that there's not much left to say.

There doesn't appear to be any argument either for or against that we haven't done to death.

Like you I think marijuana ought to just be ignored.

Not legalized, not decriminalized, not taxed, just completely ignored in exactly the same we we currently ignore the cultivation and use of Zuchinni or parsley.

It's freaking weed, man, not a drug.

 

[HUGGY]

"Sobering reality of America's drug war After 40 years and $1 trillion, the U.S. war on drugs has met none of its goals."
From an article posted here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100513/ap_on_re_us/failed_drug_wa

The hysteria surrounding illegal immigrants who simply want to work, escape the violence in their home and have their children attend schools much better then was available to them is a canard. The real problem is drug smuggling and the insanity of doing the same thing over and over and over again for 40 years.

The Justice Dept. needs to remove MJ from the list of schedule I drugs, and each state should be allowed to regulate MJ production, sales, possession and use.

I know a little about the illegal entry of pot. I also know allot of people that smoke it. I do not now use it and haven't had a toke for over twenty years. The problem with marijuana is the same thing wrong with many aspects of our American society. This includes what happened to the republican party. The same problems exist in entering into foreign wars.

The mob mentality reactions we have in action without a sober look at the consequences has been repeated by our government more times than we can count. It is what is both good and bad about our democratic republic. It has the ability to act quickly..even recklessly... as if any perceived threat is a real and true enemy.

For over the last one hundred years the Christian fundamentalists have been the driving force in knee jerk reactions that created the us vs them mentality that created this war on drugs. Making your neighbor more moral is the main purpose in CF's entering into politics and having the power to enforce their wishes on others. The ones they publicly rant about GAYS, ABORTION, and their false flag of GUN OWNERSHIP are just for show. What they really want is for everyone to subscribe to their dogma. The foundation of today's drug laws are the last bastion of racism. The black man is going to pimp your sisters and daughters if they smoke pot or consume cocaine.

We cannot stop the black man from impregnating your dumb ass females but we can take away his drugs.

What christian fundamentalists cannot do is mind their own business. They claim it is their very right and obligation to bring everyone to jeezzzusss.

To do that they must control you in as many ways as possible. Ya can't come ta the JJEEEEEEZZZZUUUUSSSS if you are rolling a joint or snorting a line.

Everyone knows just the act of smoking a little pot is harmless. The danger is completely the consequence of it being illegal.

Marijuana will become legal in the individual states as soon as the busy bodies are run out of office. If you want MJ get rid of those that think it is their business what you put in your own body...pure and simple. You will never change their desire to control you..you can change their occupation.

 

[syrenn]

You read but don't comprehend. I suggested quite clearly that MJ be removed from the list of schedule I drugs. That does not "legalize" MJ; it allows each state to regulate it's production, distribution, sales, etc. and to tax it, if a state sees fit. If a state chooses not to regulate it, that state can continue to enforce state laws making cultivation, possession, distribtution, etc a crime.

So you are saying in states that choose to play with the removal of MJ from the schedule 1 drug list makes MJ legal in that state to regulate its cultivation production, distribution, sales ect.

And if a state does not choose to regulate MJ then the cultivation, possession, distribution, exc. it is a crime.

You say it very simply yourself. Taking MJ off the schedule 1 list of controlled substances makes it legal in some states. How hard is that to comprehend?

Crime... there is your operative word. And the opposite of crime is?

 

[Sheldon]

Even if what you say is correct, and let's assume everyone who crosses the border into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, are seeking work as drug dealers, isn't allowing each state in the union the right to regulate MJ a way to limit jobs for drug dealers?
If it's legal and regulated, whose going to buy from the dealer on the corner?

You seem to have a thing with pot dont you? Its not pot that they are mostly dealing in. Its crack and meth.

Now don't be putting words in my mouth. I did not say ALL of the illegals, I said a good deal of the illegals .

I'm going to nitpick. Heroin, marijuana, methamphetamine, and cocaine are all flowing across the border. But crack? Sale and possession carries a significantly higher sentence for crack (rock) than it is for cocaine (powder); same drug, different form. Cocaine isn't made into crack until just before it hits the street corner for sale. Crack isn't transported across the border in any large-scale quantities.

Legalizing marijuana will take the production and distribution of that specific drug away from the cartels, but if all the other drugs are still illegal then the cartels won't go away and neither will the border violence. Legalizing marijuana would only be a dent to that violence. There are better reasons to free the weed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Even if what you say is correct, and let's assume everyone who crosses the border into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, are seeking work as drug dealers, isn't allowing each state in the union the right to regulate MJ a way to limit jobs for drug dealers?
If it's legal and regulated, whose going to buy from the dealer on the corner?

You seem to have a thing with pot dont you? Its not pot that they are mostly dealing in. Its crack and meth.

Now don't be putting words in my mouth. I did not say ALL of the illegals, I said a good deal of the illegals .

I'm going to nitpick. Heroin, marijuana, methamphetamine, and cocaine are all flowing across the border. But crack? Sale and possession carries a significantly higher sentence for crack (rock) than it is for cocaine (powder); same drug, different form. Cocaine isn't made into crack until just before it hits the street corner for sale. Crack isn't transported across the border in any large-scale quantities.

Legalizing marijuana will take the production and distribution of that specific drug away from the cartels, but if all the other drugs are still illegal then the cartels won't go away and neither will the border violence. Legalizing marijuana would only be a dent to that violence. There are better reasons to free the weed.

Black Tar "H" is produced in Mexico; how much "H" being used is BT and how much is powder is something I can't answer. BT was more common in the Western U.S. & was rare in Canada, Eastern U.S. and Europe, but I've been retired for five years and don't know about current data.
Lots of MJ is produced in the U.S. and some cultivation is under the control of Mexican gangs. If the U.S. DOJ were to remove MJ from schedule I, states could enforce and regulate its production (not only for smoking, but for many other uses) and create a new source of revenue.
Speed is generally a home grown product, manufacturing may be going on in your neighborhood as we speak. It is horrible drug which rapidly destroys lives.
Coke is imported from the south, but crack is produced here in any oven with a bit of baking soda; it is one of the most addictive drugs known.

There is a huge black market in MJ trade, MJ alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. If, as many believe, MJ is a gateway drug, isn't it likely that allowing it to be purchased openly may reduce the exposure of the MJ user to the criminal element with access to other much more dangeous drugs?

 

[AllieBaba]

Twenty-two hits, and not one comment. No wonder people troll, real issues, not politicized, don't stir the emotions. Thinking and offering solutions and not fixing blame on Obama or Bush, Reagan or Carter blame must be too boring.

Wry....I was one of the hits. However, I have no answers to offer. Do we give up on the war against drugs? That would be wrong, IMHO. But, we certainly cannot afford to keep throwing money at a failed and obviously flawed program either. So, what is the solution? I have no idea.

This is one of the things that always astounds me. The war on drugs kills more people than drugs do, costs us billions of dollars, and is an utter failure, but we cannot stop doing it.

WHY THE FUCK NOT?

Why can't we wake up and admit we were wrong about something? We are adults and we have made mistakes before. Prohibition of alcohol was a big mistake, and we admitted it. Did the world come to an end after that? Did civilization fall apart? As far as I can tell, we didn't even provoke God to come down and smite us like Sodom and Gomorrah.

The war on drugs kills more people than drugs do?

Why don't you go ahead and cite your references, idiot.

 

[Si modo]

I'm all for legalization, as long as urine and/or blood tests are required for any public assistance.