June 12

[daveman]

So....Obama shouldn't get credit for killing OBL.

OK.

That's different. Somehow. It just is. You racist traitor!!

There, did I get that right, USMB Obamabots?

It is so very difficult to keep the rules of the double standard straight!
I may have to use Governor Palin's scribble-on-your-hand method.

But...I am chagrined.

I should hope so.

 

[tinydancer]

I think Ronald Regan was responsible for terror attacks on 9-11. He helped the Taliban and the fledgling Al queda (bin Laden) with all sorts of support to fight the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, their loss was heralded as Russia's "Vietnam". I believe we would have been better served IF the Russians had WON.... Ronald Regan worked to destroy unions. Ronald Regan's administration fought for Amnesty for our much maligned illegal aliens back in 88'...Food for thought. BYTW, we are doing pretty much what the Russians were doing in Afghanistan... an occupying force buttressing our concerns...Regan wasn't much of anything.

Political Chic covered all the other bases quite well.

I'd like to zero in on the Taliban. Benazir Bhutto funded, aided and abetted the Taliban. They were her babies.

Benazir was one bitch from Hades and I have no doubt that she can call Hell her permanent residence. And I am thrilled she can call the Lake of Fire home.

She wrought utter hell on the people of Afghanistan with her Taliban.

Hey, that's why we had to go to Afghanistan if you connect the dots because the Taliban aided and abetted AQ.

I hate that bitch. I digress.

Here's the link:

The meteoric rise of the Taliban started when Benazir Bhutto was the Prime Minister of Pakistan in the mid-1990s.

Nasrullah Babbar, the Interior Minister in her Cabinet, was alleged to be the key architect of the Taliban, which started out as a small, armed movement of former madrassa students.

Babbar was a mentor of sorts to Mullah Mohammad Omar, who went on to head the Taliban. When the Taliban movement took on the Afghan warlords, the Pakistan Army put its ammunition dump in Spinboldak at the disposal of the Taliban, leading to the chain of events that eventually saw the Taliban ensconced in Kabul.

The Benazir mission

Spot on, tiny.

If I can, let me add the reason for the support of the Taliban, the 'students.'

Pakistan created the Taliban. Pakistan was founded with an Islamic character. When Bangladesh broke away it was due to ethnic diversity, and the Pakistanis remembered this.

So when Afghanistan needed aid after the Russian invasion, they only supported Islamic groups, and thus the secular and nationalist factions whithered on the vine.

The Pakistani Army would rather make deals with the Talibani factions than fight them, but if push comes to shove, they will repel them: recall the Red Mosque events.

Just a "fun" aside regarding the Taliban. For all their preaching and all their condemnation of anything "western", I had the most wonderous moment watching a CBC reporter (our Canadian version of Pravda) having an on screen meltdown finding a stainless steel Maytag dishwasher at a Taliban leader's estate.

Hehehehehe, those bastards that would ban a child from flying a kite had Maytag appliances in their houses.

I first got involved in ME issues because of the Taliban. Before that I was just a happy little camper tooling around on various websites that dealt with crime (I love murder and crime stories) and culinary sites.

But the Taliban struck a nerve. And I threw myself at ME politics and have for over a decade and a half championed Islamic women's rights in the ME and now on our continent. There are those that would promote sharia, we have female fetocide, arranged marriages and last but not least female genitalia mutilation going on right under our noses.

I'd rather just go fishing (the garden is nothing short of purgatory in Manitoba and it's not adding years to my life) but my daughters and my son hold my feet to the fire. They expect me to keep on keeping on.

The Taliban leave me breathless. And now, after all the blood sweat deaths and tears of our troops, to hear Hillary Clinton say that she is now willing to negotiate a truce with them is beyond appalling.

But such is the way of the liberal. But it breaks my heart. Talk about a war on women!

When the likes of Hillary are willing to pass power to the same men who relish throwing acid on young girls whose only sin is to attend school, I never want to hear from their lips how Rush Limbaugh is a "bad man".



ok that's my rant for the day. Until I hit an rdean thread.

 

[Moonglow]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.

With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.

Put Ron on the Rock.

Reagan said it, but did Gorbachev do it? I recall it being done by the German people, themselves. Give credit where credit is due. They had no idea whether they'd succeed or be shot. They're the real heroes.

So....Obama shouldn't get credit for killing OBL.

OK.

one has nothing to do with the other. Is that the same day that Reagan put the reeth on the nazi soldier burial spot?

 

[tinydancer]

Reagan said it, but did Gorbachev do it? I recall it being done by the German people, themselves. Give credit where credit is due. They had no idea whether they'd succeed or be shot. They're the real heroes.

So....Obama shouldn't get credit for killing OBL.

OK.

one has nothing to do with the other. Is that the same day that Reagan put the reeth on the nazi soldier burial spot?

The soldiers were not Nazis. They were just German soldiers. Most of them coerced by threat of death to their families if they did not "serve" Hitler as a soldier.

 

[editec]

St Ronnie defeated communism all by himself, did he?



Sure he did, kid.

 

[tinydancer]

St Ronnie defeated communism all by himself, did he?



Sure he did, kid.

I don't see anywhere in this thread where any one of us said he did.

Your tactics from the left are strange and that's putting it kindly.

I've been chatting with an old prof of mine trying to figure out the mentality that goes "pluck something from no where, accuse the other side of said crazy thought, and argue against it".

On the bright side, all he could come up with was you guys are freaking crazy.

 

[tinydancer]

St Ronnie defeated communism all by himself, did he?



Sure he did, kid.

Reagan was a huge force at the time. Why? Because he backed Lech. We were all sitting on pins and needles that they wouldn't kill him.

Personally I thought he'd get whacked, but the Pope, bless his soul said "do him and all hell will break loose".

No one in the American media ever tells the truth anymore or great stories like this. One big circle jerk to protect their bosses hero. American politico media is the equivalent pravda or beyond

 

[PoliticalChic]

St Ronnie defeated communism all by himself, did he?



Sure he did, kid.

"SO ON WHOM or what do we bestow the title of the "evil empire's" killer? Was it Mikhail Gorbachev himself who pulled down what Lenin and Stalin had built up? It is tempting to finger Gorbachev, but this would ascribe too much wisdom and foresight to a man who wanted merely to reform, but not to relinquish, the empire. At no point, however, did Gorbachev want to yield Moscow's pride of place as the number two superpower. And he was blissfully confident that the risks were tolerable: "There is no reason to fear the collapse or the end of socialism", Gorbachev assured Romanian leader Nicolae Ceausescu three weeks after the Berlin Wall had been breached and three weeks before the Romanian dictator was executed by his own people.

Reagan was made from far sterner stuff than was his Soviet counterpart. His genial grin and wise-cracking demeanor concealed a spine of steel when push came to shove. Yet at their next meeting in Reykjavik in 1986, where Gorbachev would not budge on the "Star Wars" question, Reagan was decisive and unforgiving. He recalls in An American Life how he stood up from the table to proclaim that the meeting was over. Then he turned to his Secretary of State: "Let's go, George. We're leaving." Like any good diplomat, Shultz was crushed by so much roughness, but Reagan was completely unfazed. Later on, he explained: "I went to Reykjavik determined that everything was negotiable except two things, our freedom and our future."
The "amazing and mysterious" life of Ronald Reagan - page 6 | National Interest, The

 

[daveman]

St Ronnie defeated communism all by himself, did he?



Sure he did, kid.

I've been told by liberals elsewhere that Gorbachev dissolved the USSR for the good of his people, out of the goodness of his heart.

Such is the left's need to ignore reality and rewrite history.

 

[konradv]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.

With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.

Put Ron on the Rock.

Reagan said it, but did Gorbachev do it? I recall it being done by the German people, themselves. Give credit where credit is due. They had no idea whether they'd succeed or be shot. They're the real heroes.

So....Obama shouldn't get credit for killing OBL.

OK.

OK, what? Assigning credit where no credit is due, again? Making a speech hardly compares to launching a mission of that magnitude.

 

[konradv]

So....Obama shouldn't get credit for killing OBL.

OK.

one has nothing to do with the other. Is that the same day that Reagan put the reeth on the nazi soldier burial spot?

The soldiers were not Nazis. They were just German soldiers. Most of them coerced by threat of death to their families if they did not "serve" Hitler as a soldier.

The controversy occurred because of the SS soldiers buried there, hardly ones who could be called coerced. Even regular Wehrmacht soldiers were rarely coerced. They served proudly.

 

[Peach]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.


With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.


Put Ron on the Rock.

Hilarious! The wall was already coming down, if you think Ronnie's pose had anything to do with it, you were born after 1980. NIXON brought done the former USSR, with help from Ford, Carter, and GHWB. Reagan posed, between naps, and urged Congress to enrich the defense industry, that was it. The then senile Reagan 'declared' many things, dementia is a terrible condition.

 

[Trajan]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.

With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.

Put Ron on the Rock.

Reagan said it, but did Gorbachev do it? I recall it being done by the German people, themselves. Give credit where credit is due. They had no idea whether they'd succeed or be shot. They're the real heroes.

Günter Schabowski too.

 

[Trajan]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.


With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.


Put Ron on the Rock.

Hilarious! The wall was already coming down, if you think Ronnie's pose had anything to do with it, you were born after 1980. NIXON brought done the former USSR, with help from Ford, Carter, and GHWB. Reagan posed, between naps, and urged Congress to enrich the defense industry, that was it. The then senile Reagan 'declared' many things, dementia is a terrible condition.

gosh, you're a crank after all.

 

[Peach]

Some actual history of the downfall of the USSR; NIXON began the process, Ford, Carter, and GHWB continued the work. The senile Reagan 'declared' many things, his pose at the Berlin wall did -0- to end the Soviet system, I will post book cites at a later time:

Causes of the Soviet Collapse (1979-1991)

Nixon also began the slow process that now has China 'experimenting' with small scale free markets. Give credit where credit is due; Ronnie R. did nothing but drive up debt, and become the first blank brained grade Z actor to be elected President.

 

[Peach]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.


With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.


Put Ron on the Rock.

Hilarious! The wall was already coming down, if you think Ronnie's pose had anything to do with it, you were born after 1980. NIXON brought done the former USSR, with help from Ford, Carter, and GHWB. Reagan posed, between naps, and urged Congress to enrich the defense industry, that was it. The then senile Reagan 'declared' many things, dementia is a terrible condition.

gosh, you're a crank after all.

No, I know much about US history, and don't buy photo ads as truth. Thus, I knew Reagan was a lightweight, and think Obama may be also. George W. Bush I did not see through until after the election, I did not think any President could be that bad; I am thankful I voted for Gore, and McCain, by the way.

 

[Trajan]

Hilarious! The wall was already coming down, if you think Ronnie's pose had anything to do with it, you were born after 1980. NIXON brought done the former USSR, with help from Ford, Carter, and GHWB. Reagan posed, between naps, and urged Congress to enrich the defense industry, that was it. The then senile Reagan 'declared' many things, dementia is a terrible condition.

gosh, you're a crank after all.

No, I know much about US history, and don't buy photo ads as truth. Thus, I knew Reagan was a lightweight, and think Obama may be also. George W. Bush I did not see through until after the election, I did not think any President could be that bad; I am thankful I voted for Gore, and McCain, by the way.

first he had first class sppt from and gave sppt to John Paul ( remember him) and Maggie...

so to cases;

1) everyone is smart after the fact.



2) arthur Schlesinger and 9 of ten of the trendy faux intellectuals academia said the ussr was not going anywhere just- 5 years short of it actually going out of biz.....did you know that? revision is a growth biz always, amongst academia when they have egg on their faces..


3) so photos tell you who are light weights and who aren't I see

4) every historian, newspaper and intellectual were aghast at Reagan's words/deeds, to wit; evil empire, threatening to walk from Reykjavik and not concede issues to Gorbachev, Europe went complety looney when he sent Perchings to Germany etc etc etc .

did you READ any of those books because this should not be news.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Some actual history of the downfall of the USSR; NIXON began the process, Ford, Carter, and GHWB continued the work. The senile Reagan 'declared' many things, his pose at the Berlin wall did -0- to end the Soviet system, I will post book cites at a later time:

Causes of the Soviet Collapse (1979-1991)

Nixon also began the slow process that now has China 'experimenting' with small scale free markets. Give credit where credit is due; Ronnie R. did nothing but drive up debt, and become the first blank brained grade Z actor to be elected President.

Disgusting the way you on the Left refer to the President who changed the economy of the United States and the history of the world.


"Many forces contributed to the fall of the "Evil Empire", but foremost among them was the deployment of those 464 cruise and 108 Pershing II missiles slated to offset triple-warhead Soviet SS-20s and Backfire bombers that could reach all of Western Europe (but not the American homeland). Needless to say, it was not the "theo-logic" of deterrence that drove the counter-deployment. The drama was not really about "circular-errors probable" or "hard-target kill capabilities." The name of the game was as old as Thucydides' disquisitions on Peloponnesian power politics. It was a pure test of will and strength, and on its outcome hung, as it turned out, history. Yet what a slender thread it was.


THE EUROMISSILES played a staring role in the final act of the Cold War. Militarily, they were but pawns in a nuclear world defined by 10,000 strategic warheads on either side. But on the Cold War's central chessboard, they looked like kings and queens that would complete the irresistible thrust of Soviet power lanched in the 1970s. One Soviet surrogate, North Vietnam, had beaten the United States in Southeast Asia. Another, Cuba, had anchored Soviet-bloc power in the darkest heart of Africa, in Angola. America had just lost Iran to the Islamists led by Ayatollah Khomeini, and with it, one of Washington's key allies in the Middle East. Finally, as Carter's America was being humiliated by Iranian hostage-takers and held up to ridicule by botched rescue gambits, the Soviets were forging into Afghanistan--as Alexander the Great had done on his imperial march to India. To complete the degradation of America, only two key allies--Turkey and West Germany--heeded Washington's call to boycott the Moscow Olympics of 1980. And the economy was wallowing in stagflation.


What would have happened had Western Europe finally buckled, had it refused to station INF (Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces) ? Moscow's boldest dream would have come true: to separate Western Europe from its transatlantic protector, to create zones of inferior security and, thus, to end up dominating the entire continent. Detente and Ostpolitik had already driven a sizeable wedge into the Atlantic Alliance, pushing Western Europe, and especially West Germany, closer toward the Soviet orbit. Now imagine that hundreds of Soviet SS-20s and Backfires had remained unmatched and unbalanced. Posing a separate threat, they would have consecrated Soviet strategic superiority on the Old Continent while silently reminding the West Europeans to remain on their best behavior. NATO would have collapsed de facto right then and there, and not twenty years later, when Berlin and Paris joined with Moscow in 2003 to try to derail the American war against Saddam Hussein.


"I didn't understand", recalls Time's Joe Klein, "how truly monumental, and morally important, Reagan's anti-communism was until I visited the Soviet Union in 1987." He continues with a seemingly trivial vignette. Attending the Bolshoi Ballet, he was nudged by his minder: "'Ronald Reagan. Evil empire', he whispered with dramatic intensity and shot a glance toward his lap where he had hidden two enthusiastic thumbs up. 'Yes!'"

When an American president manages to pluck the soul strings of those who have been raised to fear and despise what he represents, he surely deserves the honorific 'great.' "
The "amazing and mysterious" life of Ronald Reagan - page 6 | National Interest, The

 

[MikeK]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.


With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.

Ronald Reagan knew days in advance of the official announcement that Mikhail Gorbachev planned to declare Glasnost and remove the Berlin Wall. As soon as the CIA informed him of it he called a press conference in which he made the now famous, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall!" statement, thereby assuming the status of a crowing rooster taking credit for causing the sun to rise.

If Reagan deserves credit for anything it's the dramatic enrichment of the Military Industrial Complex. But credit for deciding to re-unite Germany goes to Mr. Gorbachev -- a true Twentieth Century statesman who never has received the recognition he deserves.

 

[Dr Grump]

On this day, in 1987

In front of the Brandenburg Gate in West Berlin, President Ronald Reagan declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” It took two years before the wall came down.


With vision and strength of will, this President defeated the 'Evil Empire' without firing a shot.


Put Ron on the Rock.

He had little, or nothing, to do with the end of Communism...