July 3, 1863 Pickett's Charge

[Zincwarrior]

The invasion itself was fool hardy. Reinforcements should have been sent to Vicksburg. Gettysburg was a military blunder.

Actions that day made blunder after blunder in the fog of War.

They realized they could not get troops to Vicksburg in time. They thought this might relieve pressure

 

[gipper]

Gettysburg was not planned, it just happened as both sides brought in more and more units

Yes, but means nothing.

 

[eagle1462010]

They realized they could not get troops to Vicksburg in time. They thought this might relieve pressure

No Lee wanted a major victory hoping they would call for a truce because of losses.

Should have stayed in defensive positions and sent whatever he could to Vicksburg. General Barksdale and his unit were from Mississippi. Rail could have gotten 7 k there.

Lee at this point was desperate. And that caused the loss at Gettysburg.

 

[gipper]

Lee took MULTIPLE risks at Chancellorsville that worked out, and deployed arrogantly.

Agreed. He had so much success and so completely believed his army was superior to the Union Army, that he failed to recognize how disadvantaged he was at Gettysburg.

My son and I walked Pickett’s Charge years ago. It was so obviously a mistake. The Union artillery occupied the high ground with a clear shot all around, of the advancing Confederate Army. It’s truly amazing any of them made it to Union lines.

Many Confederate soldiers quickly realized they were cannon fodder, if they continued. Many laid down to save their lives.

 

[rightwinger]

Agreed. He had so much success and so completely believed his army was superior to the Union Army, that he failed to recognize how disadvantaged he was at Gettysburg.

My son and I walked Pickett’s Charge years ago. It was so obviously a mistake. The Union artillery occupied the high ground with a clear shot all around, of the advancing Confederate Army. It’s truly amazing any of them made it to Union lines.

Many Confederate soldiers quickly realized they were cannon fodder, if they continued. Many laid down to save their lives.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Lee wasn’t the great General history has made him. He was a good General who could outflank his opponents and with a lot of unbelievable luck pulled off major victories.

Keep in mind that two years prior to the frontal assault that became known as Pickett’s Charge was Fredricksburg. Lee watched his outnumbered Army on good ground decimate the Union Army making a frontal assault. And two years later he orders a frontal assault over open ground and watched his troops get decimated.

Lee also said at the beginning of the march North that the outcome will tell him if God is on their side or not. He got his answer yet two more years of even bloodier fighting occurred.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The invasion itself was fool hardy. Reinforcements should have been sent to Vicksburg. Gettysburg was a military blunder.

Actions that day made blunder after blunder in the fog of War.

Actually the invasion of the North was brilliant. Presidential election was coming up, and Lincoln’s Democrat opponent wanted to let the South succeed with their slaves (go figure). It was all about bringing pain to Northerners to try to get Lincoln out of office. Fortunately for all Lee was stupid enough to get bogged down in an epic battle on visitors turf.

 

[eagle1462010]

Actually the invasion of the North was brilliant. Presidential election was coming up, and Lincoln’s Democrat opponent wanted to let the South succeed with their slaves (go figure). It was all about bringing pain to Northerners to try to get Lincoln out of office. Fortunately for all Lee was stupid enough to get bogged down in an epic battle on visitors turf.

I disagree. Allowing and army to invade from Vicksburg across the entire South was a blunder. Fighting defensive battles on your turf gusrantees more losses on the other side in most cases.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I disagree. Allowing and army to invade from Vicksburg across the entire South was a blunder. Fighting defensive battles on your turf gusrantees more losses on the other side in most cases.

The Deep South was not of strategic importance. Almost all of the war infrastructure was in Richmond.

 

[gipper]

Lee wasn’t the great General history has made him. He was a good General who could outflank his opponents and with a lot of unbelievable luck pulled off major victories.

Keep in mind that two years prior to the frontal assault that became known as Pickett’s Charge was Fredricksburg. Lee watched his outnumbered Army on good ground decimate the Union Army making a frontal assault. And two years later he orders a frontal assault over open ground and watched his troops get decimated.

Lee also said at the beginning of the march North that the outcome will tell him if God is on their side or not. He got his answer yet two more years of even bloodier fighting occurred.

He did have Stonewall Jackson prior to Gettysburg. Had he fronted Little Round Top early on July 2nd, the CSA likely wins the battle.

Lee should have fought strictly small hit and run engagements, throughout the war. He was constantly outnumbered and lacking artillery, to effectively compete against the Union Army. What he accomplished early in the war, is amazing considering these disadvantages.

Had Lee stuck with gorilla tactics, as Jackson did during his successful Valley campaigns, Lee would have prolonged the war and saved his outnumbered army. This might have resulted in a peace agreement or assistance from the UK.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Deep South was not of strategic importance. Almost all of the war infrastructure was in Richmond.

But the loss of 8 k or so would not have guaranteed Union victory in another attack.

A loss in Vicksburg would have demorakized the North who kept losing battles.

They were close to saying fuck this every battle they lost.

 

[Weatherman2020]

He did have Stonewall Jackson prior to Gettysburg. Had he fronted Little Round Top early on July 2nd, the CSA likely wins the battle.

Lee should have fought strictly small hit and run engagements, throughout the war. He was constantly outnumbered and lacking artillery, to effectively compete against the Union Army. What he accomplished early in the war, is amazing considering these disadvantages.

Had Lee stuck with gorilla tactics, as Jackson did during his successful Valley campaigns, Lee would have prolonged the war and saved his outnumbered army. This might have resulted in a peace agreement or assistance from the UK.

I agree. And if you look at all of Lee’s victories it was because of incredible luck. So-and-so’s troops arrived to save the day, Union failed to act, etc etc.

 

[Weatherman2020]

But the loss of 8 k or so would not have guaranteed Union victory in another attack.

A loss in Vicksburg would have demorakized the North who kept losing battles.

They were close to saying fuck this every battle they lost.

Vicksburg is almost a thousand miles from what you need to defend - Richmond.

 

[gipper]

But the loss of 8 k or so would not have guaranteed Union victory in another attack.

A loss in Vicksburg would have demorakized the North who kept losing battles.

They were close to saying fuck this every battle they lost.

The CSA didn’t have good leadership in the West. Their generals weren’t nearly as competent as Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. Plus the Union had Grant, who was a very aggressive offensive minded general. He greatly outnumbered the CSA armies he faced, in every engagement.

Plus the Union had the naval support all along the Mississippi River, that the CSA couldn’t compete with.

 

[gipper]

I agree. And if you look at all of Lee’s victories it was because of incredible luck. So-and-so’s troops arrived to save the day, Union failed to act, etc etc.

A big part of Lee’s success was the result of really incompetent generals leading the Union Army, until Grant and Sherman took over.

You mentioned Fredericksburg. What a complete blunder by the North. Burnside has a total dumb ass incompetent buffoon. To say nothing of McClellan, Hooker, and the others.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And God Bless the troops of North Carolina.
Shot Stonewall Jackson and Longstreet at critical points of battles to save the Union Army.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The CSA didn’t have good leadership in the West. Their generals weren’t nearly as competent as Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. Plus the Union had Grant, who was a very aggressive offensive minded general. He greatly outnumbered the CSA armies he faced, in every engagement.

Plus the Union had the naval support all along the Mississippi River, that the CSA couldn’t compete with.

Don't forget Thomas! Grant was the best theater commander, but I think Thomas was the best battlefield commander.

 

[eagle1462010]

The CSA didn’t have good leadership in the West. Their generals weren’t nearly as competent as Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. Plus the Union had Grant, who was a very aggressive offensive minded general. He greatly outnumbered the CSA armies he faced, in every engagement.

Plus the Union had the naval support all along the Mississippi River, that the CSA couldn’t compete with.

Bueregard or however you spell it was a very able General. He was killed in the 1st day when Grant crossed the swamp. Almost pulled off a miracle

 

[eagle7-31]

The CSA didn’t have good leadership in the West. Their generals weren’t nearly as competent as Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. Plus the Union had Grant, who was a very aggressive offensive minded general. He greatly outnumbered the CSA armies he faced, in every engagement.

Plus the Union had the naval support all along the Mississippi River, that the CSA couldn’t compete with.

the other problem the south had was that their rail lines ran north and south, they had few in any running east to west.