Judge Crab issues Crabby Ruling on National Day of Prayer

Foxfyre

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Federal judge: National Day of Prayer is unconstitutionalBy Warren Richey Warren Richey – Thu Apr 15, 9:05 pm ET

A federal judge in Wisconsin declared Thursday that the US law authorizing a National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional.

US District Judge Barbara Crabb said the federal statute violates the First Amendment’s prohibition on government endorsement of religion.

She issued a 66-page decision and enjoined President Obama from issuing an executive order calling for the celebration of a National Day of Prayer. . . .
What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?
 
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Againsheila

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Federal judge: National Day of Prayer is unconstitutionalBy Warren Richey Warren Richey – Thu Apr 15, 9:05 pm ET

A federal judge in Wisconsin declared Thursday that the US law authorizing a National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional.

US District Judge Barbara Crabb said the federal statute violates the First Amendment’s prohibition on government endorsement of religion.

She issued a 66-page decision and enjoined President Obama from issuing an executive order calling for the celebration of a National Day of Prayer. . . .
What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illege for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?
Just a prelude to canceling Christmas.
 
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Foxfyre

Foxfyre

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Just a prelude to canceling Christmas.
I thought they already did that. Don't we have a 'holiday tree' on the South Lawn now instead of the traditional Christmas Tree?

But I still want to know how a National Day of Prayer violates any law or constitutional principle. I hope this one gets to the Supreme Court fast before it has time to fester into some more wierd precedents for other judges to use.
 

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Federal judge: National Day of Prayer is unconstitutionalBy Warren Richey Warren Richey – Thu Apr 15, 9:05 pm ET

A federal judge in Wisconsin declared Thursday that the US law authorizing a National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional.

US District Judge Barbara Crabb said the federal statute violates the First Amendment’s prohibition on government endorsement of religion.

She issued a 66-page decision and enjoined President Obama from issuing an executive order calling for the celebration of a National Day of Prayer. . . .
What I would like to know is that precise point in history in which the wording in the Constitution making it illegal for the government to establish religion was reinterpreted to make it illegal for government to promote religion.

And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?
None. It's just b.s. to get prayer removed from something else.
 

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Where's the link? And from what I read:

US District Judge Barbara Crabb said the federal statute violates the First Amendment’s prohibition on government endorsement of religion.
A National Day of Prayer (just like establishing prayer days in school) is the government endorsing religion.

If you want someone to blame, blame the founding fathers.

Establishment Clause of the First Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This does not prevent anyone from exercising their right to participate in religion.
 

boedicca

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And I would like to know what religion the long standing tradition of the National Day of Prayer establishes?

It has more to do with the religion equivalent that it doesn't establish: Secularism.

It's okay for the government to promote Earth Day, which is a faith based iniatiative. But encouraging people to follow their own spiritual paths is verboten - it doesn't serve Big Government.
 

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Just a prelude to canceling Christmas.
I thought they already did that. Don't we have a 'holiday tree' on the South Lawn now instead of the traditional Christmas Tree?

But I still want to know how a National Day of Prayer violates any law or constitutional principle. I hope this one gets to the Supreme Court fast before it has time to fester into some more wierd precedents for other judges to use.
snopes.com: White House Ban on Religious Christmas Ornaments

Try not to repeat dumb things you hear in chain e-mails.
 

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Just a prelude to canceling Christmas.
Christmas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England shared radical Protestant disapproval of Christmas. Celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. The ban by the Pilgrims was revoked in 1681 by English governor Sir Edmund Andros, however it wasn't until the mid 1800's that celebrating Christmas became fashionable in the Boston region.[74]
Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.[76] George Washington attacked Hessian (German) mercenaries on Christmas during the Battle of Trenton in 1777, Christmas being much more popular in Germany than in America at this time.
Damn that Washington! Who does he think he is? :eek:

The poem helped popularize the tradition of exchanging gifts, and seasonal Christmas shopping began to assume economic importance.[89] This also started the cultural conflict of the holiday's spiritualism and its commercialism that some see as corrupting the holiday. In her 1850 book "The First Christmas in New England", Harriet Beecher Stowe includes a character who complains that the true meaning of Christmas was lost in a shopping spree.[90]
But feel free to keep celebrating what is originally a Roman Pagan holiday.

Modern scholars have argued that the festival was placed on the date of the solstice because this was on this day that the Sun reversed its southward retreat and proved itself to be "unconquered." Several early Christian writers connected the rebirth of the sun to the birth of Jesus.[7] "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born", Cyprian wrote.[7] John Chrysostom also commented on the connection: "They call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord . . .?"[7]
Jesus was born in May, specifically May 20th.
 

Modbert

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Exactly which religion does it endorse (which, btw, is not the same as establishing)?
You seem to not realize that it doesn't need to endorse a specific religion. All it needs to do is endorse religion, which this does.
 

boedicca

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Wrong again, Doggie Boy.

The Establishment Clause is quite explicit:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

A National Day of Prayer which is Non-Denominational is not the Establishment of a Religion. No specific doctrine or organization is established by it; not is it compulsory.
 

Cuyo

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Wrong again, Doggie Boy.

The Establishment Clause is quite explicit:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

A National Day of Prayer which is Non-Denominational is not the Establishment of a Religion. No specific doctrine or organization is established by it; not is it compulsory.
As long as we're "Wordsmithing" here...

It does say "Establishment of Religion," and not "Establishment of a religion," or "Establishment of any particular religion."

I suppose the courts have interpreted a "National day of prayer" as Establishment of Religion, despite the fact that it's not establishing a particular religion. I happen to agree.
 

boedicca

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Just keep digging Doggie Boy.

The Establishment Clause has long been interpreted as meaning that the Government cannot establish a national religion (i.e. the equivalent of the Church of England) or to show preference for one religion over another.

A National Day of Prayer does neither of these things. Nor does it violate the Free Exercise Clause: "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
 

Modbert

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Wrong again, Doggie Boy.

The Establishment Clause is quite explicit:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

A National Day of Prayer which is Non-Denominational is not the Establishment of a Religion. No specific doctrine or organization is established by it; not is it compulsory.
National Day of Prayer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the free-exercise clause allows for this type of event to be organized by non-governmental bodies, the U.S. Congress may not pass any laws enforcing religious observances.[7]
Except what is established is religion by this. You can try and say it's not related to any specific religion all you like, but it's still related to religion.
 

Modbert

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By the way, for those too ignorant to read up on the story, Obama had asked the judge to dismiss this case.
 

Modbert

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There is no Enforcement. It's voluntary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Prayer

Except:

On March 1, 2010 U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb stated that FFRF's lawsuit can proceed forward because the plantiffs had shown that they suffered "concrete injury" that can potentially be remedied by judicial action. Justice Crabb stated about those supporting the federal law designating the National Day of Prayer, "adopting [the] defendants' view of standing would allow the government to have unrestrained authority to demean members of any religious group without legal consequence. The federal government could declare the 'National Day of Anti-Semitism' or even declare Christianity the official religion of the United States, but no one would have standing to sue because no one would have to 'pass by' those declarations." [14] This was in regards to the defendants position that the plaintiffs did not have standing to engage in the lawsuit. Mr. Bolton, legal counsel of the Freedom From Religion Foundation stated, "The Foundation has never been opposed to nongovernment parties designating and participating in their own Day of Prayer activities. Here, however, government officials have too often adopted the religious perspective of Mrs. Dobson and the National Day of Prayer Task Force as the official public statement and position of the government. To the extent that Mrs. Dobson and the Task Force, operating from the Focus on the Family campus in Colorado Springs, concentrate on the private sphere, that is their prerogative. FFRF is concerned about the government's respect for the separation of church and state, which the court intends to address." [15]
 

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Just keep digging Doggie Boy.

The Establishment Clause has long been interpreted as meaning that the Government cannot establish a national religion (i.e. the equivalent of the Church of England) or to show preference for one religion over another.

A National Day of Prayer does neither of these things. Nor does it violate the Free Exercise Clause: "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
Can you cite the text in the constitution that states the red portion of your quote? Or one that indicates that a promulgation of Religion in general is OK, as long as it's not a particular religion?
 

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White House: Obama will issue prayer proclamation | World news | guardian.co.uk

Obama spokesman Matt Lehrich says in an e-mail to The Associated Press that the ruling therefore doesn't prevent the president from issuing a proclamation for the day recognized in May.
Government involvement in prayer is constitutional only as long as it does not call for religious action, which the prayer day does, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb wrote in her ruling.

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," Crabb wrote. "In this instance, the government has taken sides on a matter that must be left to individual conscience."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prayer

a. A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
b. The act of making a reverent petition to God, a god, or another object of worship.
2. An act of communion with God, a god, or another object of worship, such as in devotion, confession, praise, or thanksgiving: One evening a week, the family would join together in prayer.
3. A specially worded form used to address God, a god, or another object of worship.
4. prayers A religious observance in which praying predominates: morning prayers.
 
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