Jonah Goldberg on the Similarities and Differences between T party and MOWS crowd

[Wiseacre]

Funny how much the left denigrated and demagogued the TP when they burst on the scene, but now they're gushing all over the MOWS. I'm all for freedom of speech and I'm good with protesting the income inequality issue even though I think it's overblown and they're attacking the wrong people. Making money and being successful is not a crime, but these people seem to think it is.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Making money is cool, as long as you give it over to the folks who don't earn it.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content. Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread. Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.

My guess is, not a single Tea Partier would agree to anything on that list of 'proposals' but some in the MOWS group would.

Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.

Yes I know. All humor must include an element of truth, yes?

Another difference between Tea Party rallies is those who organize Tea Party Rallies constantly encourage those participating to be respectful of private property, to carry out all trash, to the leave the premises as spotless as possible. Glen Beck's rally in DC was the same. And every one I have seen or read about have operated just that way.

But here is an account by a NY Times writer. Much different suggesting a much different class of people participating:

Politics
October 09, 2011
By CARA BUCKLEY, NY Times

Panini and Company Cafe normally sells sandwiches to tourists in Lower Manhattan and the residents nearby, but in recent days its owner, Stacey Tzortzatos, has also become something of a restroom monitor. Protesters from Occupy Wall Street, who are encamped in a nearby park, have been tromping in by the scores, and not because they are hungry.

Ms. Tzortzatos’s tolerance for the newcomers finally vanished when the sink was broken and fell to the floor. She installed a $200 lock on the bathroom to thwart nonpaying customers, angering the protesters...

Several businesses said they had no choice but to respond to the influx of protesters by closing bathrooms.

Mike Keane, who owns O’Hara’s Restaurant and Pub, said that the theft of soap and toilet paper had soared and that one protester had used the bathroom but had failed to properly use the toilet. Both Ms. Tzortzatos, owner of the Panini and Company Cafe, and Mr. Keane said the protesters rarely bought anything, yet hurled curses when they were told that only paying customers could use their bathrooms.

Steve Zamfotis, manager of another nearby store, Steve’s Pizza, said: “They are pests. They go to the bathroom and don’t even buy a cup of coffee.”

Read more: 'Occupy Wallstreet' Protesters Steal from Local Businesses - Occupy Wall Street - Fox Nation

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content. Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread. Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.

My guess is, not a single Tea Partier would agree to anything on that list of 'proposals' but some in the MOWS group would.

Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.

I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own. That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time. Piss or get off the pot.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content. Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread. Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.

My guess is, not a single Tea Partier would agree to anything on that list of 'proposals' but some in the MOWS group would.

Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.

I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own. That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time. Piss or get off the pot.

They are on record at their website as having made no demands.

What do they want?
They don't know.
When do they want it?
They want it now!

I mean really, what kind of numbnut protests like that without having a clue about what they are protesting?

 

[Jos]

Maybe they should just take a dump on Wall ST. after all Wall ST has been taking a dump on Americans for how long now?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Why should they respect property and the rights of others? After all, property is theft, therefore theft is property.

 

[Avatar4321]

They are Robbers. And if we don't make an effort to stop them, they will destroy our civilization.

 

[chanel]

Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.

I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own. That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time. Piss or get off the pot.

They are on record at their website as having made no demands.

What do they want?
They don't know.
When do they want it?
They want it now!

I mean really, what kind of numbnut protests like that without having a clue about what they are protesting?

My son attends college in Phila. where the Occupy Phila. group is in its sixth day of protesting. I asked if any of his friends attended and he said "no". But he did witness a near fistfight between two students en route to City Hall. One was dressed as a zombie and the other told him "Crazies are not welcome" and "You are making us look like a joke". I suspect there is too much division in their "demands" and that will end up being the end of them. I just hope it fizzles without violence.

 

[California Girl]

I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own. That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time. Piss or get off the pot.

They are on record at their website as having made no demands.

What do they want?
They don't know.
When do they want it?
They want it now!

I mean really, what kind of numbnut protests like that without having a clue about what they are protesting?

My son attends college in Phila. where the Occupy Phila. group is in its sixth day of protesting. I asked if any of his friends attended and he said "no". But he did witness a near fistfight between two students en route to City Hall. One was dressed as a zombie and the other told him "Crazies are not welcome" and "You are making us look like a joke". I suspect there is too much division in their "demands" and that will end up being the end of them. I just hope it fizzles without violence.

Well, they appear to now have Lloyd Hart acting as their spokesperson. Interestingly, Mr Hart used to be a fundraiser for Al Sharpton, and since has worked at the Tides Foundation... and yet, we are told there is no connection to Tides.. Soros and Watermelon Man... The facts do not support the left's argument about OWS. Nope, they do not. Facts. Love 'em or hate 'em.

 

[editec]

Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.

Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.

That they share in common.

In that respect the similarities between these populist movements protesting against the status quo and that of Germany's populist movements in the 30's is rather similar.

Add to that similarity the fact that the two populist movements hate the other in the USA nearly as much as they did during the Germany period of unrest that eventually lead to the takeover by NAZIs.

Kind of creepy, isn't it?

Here's what I know...neither of these groups speak for me.

Neither has a CLUE how to solve this problem.

If either group achieves power, the government either of them forges won't be one that most Americans will be happy with.

Neither of them, in my opinion has a plan that will work.

Both of them, again in my opinion, has plans that will actually make things worse.

 

[Zander]

Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.

Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.

That they share in common.

In that respect the similarities between these populist movements protesting against the status quo and that of Germany's populist movements in the 30's is rather similar.

Add to that similarity the fact that the two populist movements hate the other in the USA nearly as much as they did during the Germany period of unrest that eventually lead to the takeover by NAZIs.

Kind of creepy, isn't it?

Here's what I know...neither of these groups speak for me.

Neither has a CLUE how to solve this problem.

If either group achieves power, the government either of them forges won't be one that most Americans will be happy with.

Neither of them, in my opinion has a plan that will work.

Both of them, again in my opinion, has plans that will actually make things worse.

I see it far differently.

The Tea party is about one thing - fiscal responsibility from our government. They aren't demanding a new constitution- they are happy with the one we have. They just want a return to sanity with regards to spending, taxation, and entitlements. Yes, I know, it would be just horrible if the budget was balanced, citizens were personally responsible, and we started paying down the national debt. Oh the horror!!


These SOWS are another story entirely. They are a sloppy miasma of Marxist rhetoric, stupidity, and incoherence. They see themselves as modern day hippies- content to shit in the streets, go weeks without bathing, and reeking of hypocrisy. They have no real message other than "eat the rich".

 

[Bfgrn]

Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripp’s cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was “vice-president” of his mom’s company. But through his mom’s hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled “The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldberg’s son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job”:

Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldberg’s 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .

From an early age, his mother, who has acknowledged being an undercover Republican political operative during the McGovern campaign, exposed her son to feisty right-wing hi-jinks — and instilled in him a strong sense of family loyalty and affection. Indeed, Goldberg says he first entered the media fray “to defend my mom” from those who deemed her the money-grubbing Wicked Witch of the Upper West Side.

National Review, like Jonah, hates “handouts,” believes strongly in the glorious virtues of self-sufficiency and pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps (and, apparently, by one’s unsevered umbilical cords); demands meritocratic policies; and is filled with spine-stiffening courage and toughness. They’re the people who hate affirmative action because of how “unfair” and “un-meritocratic” it is, but who thrive on legacy admissions to college and have their moms and dads get them jobs and make their careers.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Sallow]

Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.

Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.

That they share in common.

In that respect the similarities between these populist movements protesting against the status quo and that of Germany's populist movements in the 30's is rather similar.

Add to that similarity the fact that the two populist movements hate the other in the USA nearly as much as they did during the Germany period of unrest that eventually lead to the takeover by NAZIs.

Kind of creepy, isn't it?

Here's what I know...neither of these groups speak for me.

Neither has a CLUE how to solve this problem.

If either group achieves power, the government either of them forges won't be one that most Americans will be happy with.

Neither of them, in my opinion has a plan that will work.

Both of them, again in my opinion, has plans that will actually make things worse.

I see it far differently.

The Tea party is about one thing - fiscal responsibility from our government. They aren't demanding a new constitution- they are happy with the one we have. They just want a return to sanity with regards to spending, taxation, and entitlements. Yes, I know, it would be just horrible if the budget was balanced, citizens were personally responsible, and we started paying down the national debt. Oh the horror!!


These SOWS are another story entirely. They are a sloppy miasma of Marxist rhetoric, stupidity, and incoherence. They see themselves as modern day hippies- content to shit in the streets, go weeks without bathing, and reeking of hypocrisy. They have no real message other than "eat the rich".

You're kidding. The tea party elected people that wanted to add a brand spanking new ammendment to require government to have balanced budgets. They also wanted to get rid of the citizenship clause by birth in the 14th Amendment. They also wanted to toss the 17th Amendment. Yeah..they were "happy" with it all right.

And none of these folks were protesting Bush. In fact they tried to tie TARP to Obama.

The Tea Baggers (which they named themselves) was a ridiculous movement. They had every right to protest, however. But it was hardly a homegrown, "natural", grass roots thing. Dick Armey and FOX co-opted the whole thing for the GOP.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

The Tea Party stands for FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY and an END to Big Government. The bottom line is, unlike the nuts on Wall Street, the Tea Party understands that government is the PROBLEM. It's too big, too expensive, too intrusive, and too damn ignorant to do anything well. And unlike the nuts on Wall Street, it's the Tea Party members that actually PAY for government. So, although the left-leaning media in this country would like you to believe that the two things are similar, they are so incredibly full of manure, that they can't see straight.

One of the issues that the people on Wall Street have is that they do not want PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If you want to go to Columbia University and you run up $200,000 in debt, then partner, you've got to pay it back! They want people to pay that for them. Horse dookey! That is just like something that a 12 year old would want. How about one of the hundreds of STATE COLLEGES across this country, OR you could even go to a Junior College to begin with. I know, I know, that wouldn't let you sit around with all the goof-balls and theorize about karma or some other crap, but it would give you an education.

Here this: We're tired of paying. Enough is enough. You want to take more and more to fund these stupid give-aways, it ain't happening. There are ways to hide your money. Going overseas is one of them. Keep pushing and you're going to see such a massive exodus of capital that it will make your head spin.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.

Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.

That they share in common.

In that respect the similarities between these populist movements protesting against the status quo and that of Germany's populist movements in the 30's is rather similar.

Add to that similarity the fact that the two populist movements hate the other in the USA nearly as much as they did during the Germany period of unrest that eventually lead to the takeover by NAZIs.

Kind of creepy, isn't it?

Here's what I know...neither of these groups speak for me.

Neither has a CLUE how to solve this problem.

If either group achieves power, the government either of them forges won't be one that most Americans will be happy with.

Neither of them, in my opinion has a plan that will work.

Both of them, again in my opinion, has plans that will actually make things worse.

I see it far differently.

The Tea party is about one thing - fiscal responsibility from our government. They aren't demanding a new constitution- they are happy with the one we have. They just want a return to sanity with regards to spending, taxation, and entitlements. Yes, I know, it would be just horrible if the budget was balanced, citizens were personally responsible, and we started paying down the national debt. Oh the horror!!


These SOWS are another story entirely. They are a sloppy miasma of Marxist rhetoric, stupidity, and incoherence. They see themselves as modern day hippies- content to shit in the streets, go weeks without bathing, and reeking of hypocrisy. They have no real message other than "eat the rich".

You're kidding. The tea party elected people that wanted to add a brand spanking new ammendment to require government to have balanced budgets. They also wanted to get rid of the citizenship clause by birth in the 14th Amendment. They also wanted to toss the 17th Amendment. Yeah..they were "happy" with it all right.

And none of these folks were protesting Bush. In fact they tried to tie TARP to Obama.

The Tea Baggers (which they named themselves) was a ridiculous movement. They had every right to protest, however. But it was hardly a homegrown, "natural", grass roots thing. Dick Armey and FOX co-opted the whole thing for the GOP.

I like you Sallow. Sometimes you can make a point that is so ingenious that it scares me. But this ain't one of these times.

The Tea Party started as a result of Obamacare being rammed through Congress. It started with the meetings that Congressmen and Senators were having back home during the summer recess. Those got so heated that they stopped having the meetings with their constituents. So we got together and the Tea Party was formed. Claire McCaskill (SP??) from Missouri was one of those. She cancelled her meetings with constituents that year because they were hammering her. Now she's pretty much understanding that because she wouldn't listen to Missourians, she's toast.

You're absolutely right. We want, no we demand, a balanced budget amendment that can ONLY be violated during a time of declared war. You're right about the citizenship clause to the 14th Amendment. We want that gone. Just look at the wife of the Mexican drug cartel leader that came to San Diego to have their child last month. He's on the FBI's most wanted list and she trips to the USA because she knows that if the kids born here, he will have citizenship. Now that kid is technically an American citizen. When dad gets a bullet to the brain, she takes her kid "home." The 17th Amendment not so much (I've NEVER heard anyone gripe about it at a Tea Party event).

As for the teabagger thing, it was Jeanine Garafallo (SP??) that first started it. I'd never heard it before and quite frankly it was like being called a pig when I was a cop. Yawn. Saying that Fox News and Dick Armey aggitated the movement is fantasy. They piled on perhaps, just like the unions with the OWS nuts.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripp’s cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was “vice-president” of his mom’s company. But through his mom’s hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled “The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldberg’s son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job”:

Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldberg’s 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .

From an early age, his mother, who has acknowledged being an undercover Republican political operative during the McGovern campaign, exposed her son to feisty right-wing hi-jinks — and instilled in him a strong sense of family loyalty and affection. Indeed, Goldberg says he first entered the media fray “to defend my mom” from those who deemed her the money-grubbing Wicked Witch of the Upper West Side.

National Review, like Jonah, hates “handouts,” believes strongly in the glorious virtues of self-sufficiency and pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps (and, apparently, by one’s unsevered umbilical cords); demands meritocratic policies; and is filled with spine-stiffening courage and toughness. They’re the people who hate affirmative action because of how “unfair” and “un-meritocratic” it is, but who thrive on legacy admissions to college and have their moms and dads get them jobs and make their careers.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Friedrich Nietzsche

How does any of this relate to his argument? Who Jonah Goldberg is, or who his parents are have no relevance to this discussion. His argument is valid or not valid based on his facts and his reasoning, not because of his employer or his parents.

I only included his name because I stole the text from his newsletter. You aren't allowed to present other people's ideas as your own. You would realize that if you actually had any ideas.

Returning to his basic thesis, there is a huge amount of disgust over government -big business incest. It is the basis for the slavish devotion of the adherents of Ron Paul, Sarah Palin and Denis Kusinich. There is a huge amount of disgust over this.

Goldberg is not saying this annoyance is wrong. He is saying the Tea Party folks have a better understanding of the fundamental issue, and the remedies of the OWS are worse than the disease because they want to compound the problem and move it to their personal advantage rather than fix it.

 

[Bfgrn]

Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripp’s cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was “vice-president” of his mom’s company. But through his mom’s hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled “The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldberg’s son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job”:

Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldberg’s 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .

From an early age, his mother, who has acknowledged being an undercover Republican political operative during the McGovern campaign, exposed her son to feisty right-wing hi-jinks — and instilled in him a strong sense of family loyalty and affection. Indeed, Goldberg says he first entered the media fray “to defend my mom” from those who deemed her the money-grubbing Wicked Witch of the Upper West Side.

National Review, like Jonah, hates “handouts,” believes strongly in the glorious virtues of self-sufficiency and pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps (and, apparently, by one’s unsevered umbilical cords); demands meritocratic policies; and is filled with spine-stiffening courage and toughness. They’re the people who hate affirmative action because of how “unfair” and “un-meritocratic” it is, but who thrive on legacy admissions to college and have their moms and dads get them jobs and make their careers.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Friedrich Nietzsche

How does any of this relate to his argument? Who Jonah Goldberg is, or who his parents are have no relevance to this discussion. His argument is valid or not valid based on his facts and his reasoning, not because of his employer or his parents.

I only included his name because I stole the text from his newsletter. You aren't allowed to present other people's ideas as your own. You would realize that if you actually had any ideas.

Returning to his basic thesis, there is a huge amount of disgust over government -big business incest. It is the basis for the slavish devotion of the adherents of Ron Paul, Sarah Palin and Denis Kusinich. There is a huge amount of disgust over this.

Goldberg is not saying this annoyance is wrong. He is saying the Tea Party folks have a better understanding of the fundamental issue, and the remedies of the OWS are worse than the disease because they want to compound the problem and move it to their personal advantage rather than fix it.

How does it relate? REALLY??? If Jonah hadn't pulled 'himself up' by his mother's umbilical cord and wasn't afforded legacy admissions to college and have his mom get him jobs, he wouldn't have the forum to make his argument, now would he? Maybe he'd be sleeping on Wall Street.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.

I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own. That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time. Piss or get off the pot.

They are on record at their website as having made no demands.

What do they want?
They don't know.
When do they want it?
They want it now!

I mean really, what kind of numbnut protests like that without having a clue about what they are protesting?

Oh, they know what they're protesting. They're protesting the fact that all of their lives are giant shit sandwiches. However, if they knew what to do about it, they wouldn't be sitting around in a park, making fools of themselves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripp’s cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was “vice-president” of his mom’s company. But through his mom’s hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled “The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldberg’s son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job”:

Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldberg’s 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .

From an early age, his mother, who has acknowledged being an undercover Republican political operative during the McGovern campaign, exposed her son to feisty right-wing hi-jinks — and instilled in him a strong sense of family loyalty and affection. Indeed, Goldberg says he first entered the media fray “to defend my mom” from those who deemed her the money-grubbing Wicked Witch of the Upper West Side.

National Review, like Jonah, hates “handouts,” believes strongly in the glorious virtues of self-sufficiency and pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps (and, apparently, by one’s unsevered umbilical cords); demands meritocratic policies; and is filled with spine-stiffening courage and toughness. They’re the people who hate affirmative action because of how “unfair” and “un-meritocratic” it is, but who thrive on legacy admissions to college and have their moms and dads get them jobs and make their careers.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I wondered when the King of Irrelevancy would show up and treat us all to a nice long post about fuck-all that's apropos of nothing whatsoever.