Jesse James

[Tommy Tainant]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

 

[jon_berzerk]

there is pretty good evidence that his death was fabricated

and that he survived many years after that

 

[Tommy Tainant]

there is pretty good evidence that his death was fabricated

and that he survived many years after that

So what happened ?

 

[JoeB131]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

my mother was from Missouri, and they still talk about the James and Youngers like they were heroes.

I think the thing was that AFTER the civil war, the two industries that were really sticking it to Americans were the banks and the railroads, so not surprisingly, characters like the James and Youngers and Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid all attained folk hero status when they attacked them.

Where it all fell apart for the James-Younger gang is when they stepped outside their safe zone in Missouri and tried to rob a bank in Minnesota, and found the townspeople shooting at their sorry asses.

 

[Moonglow]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

my mother was from Missouri, and they still talk about the James and Youngers like they were heroes.

I think the thing was that AFTER the civil war, the two industries that were really sticking it to Americans were the banks and the railroads, so not surprisingly, characters like the James and Youngers and Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid all attained folk hero status when they attacked them.

Where it all fell apart for the James-Younger gang is when they stepped outside their safe zone in Missouri and tried to rob a bank in Minnesota, and found the townspeople shooting at their sorry asses.

In Pineville, Mo., which is 9 miles away has Jesse James day in August.....It has carnival rides, games, music and contest for the best dressed from the era..

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Its a strange one.
Usually it is the winners who write history but in this instance Jesse has been well served by Hollywood.

I can see how he would be seen as a hero as well.

Bobby Sands is seen as a terrorist in much of the UK but he is a hero in Derry and other parts of Ulster.

Would Missouri still see itself as Southern today or do those distinctions still matter ?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Americans love their folklore.

 

[Picaro]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

Never met him or knew his family so I wouldn't know. I do know all gangsters like to pretend they're 'heroes' too, and people still glamorize Al Capone and John Gotti and their ilk.as well.

You might have a case for Bobby Sands, but probably a zero case for the modern flavors of the IRA, though. Blowing up civilians in crowded shopping districts and the like pretty much marks them as low life scum, and much more like gangsters.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

Never met him or knew his family so I wouldn't know. I do know all gangsters like to pretend they're 'heroes' too, and people still glamorize Al Capone and John Gotti and their ilk.as well.

You might have a case for Bobby Sands, but probably a zero case for the modern flavors of the IRA, though. Blowing up civilians in crowded shopping districts and the like pretty much marks them as low life scum, and much more like gangsters.

I tend to agree with that. I support reunification of Ireland but that will happen without bombs. The biggest issue they have is convincing the south to take them.
Have to remember that Mandela,Gandhi and others were considered as terrorists in their time.
Reading about the Lawrence raid at the moment.Was that terrorism or an act of war ?
Has there been reconciliation over that ?

 

[jon_berzerk]

there is pretty good evidence that his death was fabricated

and that he survived many years after that

So what happened ?

Jesse James museum in Wichita claims proof that outlaw faked death

there is lots of information

what i think is neater

a couple of guys have been tracking his lost gold

they have found some

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jesse James: Amazon.co.uk: T J Stiles: 9780099521174: Books

Yes I have been reading this biography about Jesse James.

Mr Stiles makes the case that he wasnt an outlaw as such, more a freedom fighter still carrying on a war against the Union.
Ive always seen James as an American "Robin Hood" character but the truth seems to be lot darker. Even the physical image is at odds. He should look like Tyrone Power not some backwards banjo player.

How is he viewed in America ? Is there a difference in views from northern and southern folk ?

Finally,its a good read if you havent read it yet.

You will be grateful that you didnt live in Civil War Missouri , it sounds like a living hell.

my mother was from Missouri, and they still talk about the James and Youngers like they were heroes.

I think the thing was that AFTER the civil war, the two industries that were really sticking it to Americans were the banks and the railroads, so not surprisingly, characters like the James and Youngers and Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid all attained folk hero status when they attacked them.

Where it all fell apart for the James-Younger gang is when they stepped outside their safe zone in Missouri and tried to rob a bank in Minnesota, and found the townspeople shooting at their sorry asses.

yeah deciding not to Rob a bank in Mankato they headed off to Northfield where they got really shot up

 

[Picaro]

Bobby Sands is seen as a terrorist in much of the UK but he is a hero in Derry and other parts of Ulster.

It's safe to say he was a 'true believer' in the cause, yes.

Would Missouri still see itself as Southern today or do those distinctions still matter ?

It's only important to Yankees and their revisionist mythologies; most Southerners just see the Civil War for what it was, an illegal war Lincoln started at the behest of his railroad and banking buddies because of southern politicians' opposition to corporate welfare and high tariffs that only subsidized northern states with no benefits whatsoever for the southern states. They like to peddle the fantasy they were freeing the slaves but it's just bullshit. they don't like that the South votes Republican in the main, is all it means in modern terms, so they invent a lot of gibberish over it all.

 

[Picaro]

Have to remember that Mandela,Gandhi and others were considered as terrorists in their time.

Mandela was a leader of a terrorist group, yes; his wife and his other fans amused themselves murdering other black people, mostly; their favorite sport was 'necklacing', hanging car tires around peoples' necks, filling them with gasoline and setting it on fire. Wonderful people, yes?

Ghandi was a mixed bag; he was only a 'pacifist' against a relatively civilised British empire that had a free press, but a hardcore racist otherwise and wasn't above political murders in India itself.

Reading about the Lawrence raid at the moment.Was that terrorism or an act of war ?
Has there been reconciliation over that ?

Deliberately killing civilians is terrorism, yes. Wars tend to brutalize everyone involved, so it's predictable, especially after a farce like the Civil War and the massive corruption and cruelty of northern generals produced a lot of misery and desensitization to such acts on both sides.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Have to remember that Mandela,Gandhi and others were considered as terrorists in their time.

Mandela was a leader of a terrorist group, yes; his wife and his other fans amused themselves murdering other black people, mostly; their favorite sport was 'necklacing', hanging car tires around peoples' necks, filling them with gasoline and setting it on fire. Wonderful people, yes?

Ghandi was a mixed bag; he was only a 'pacifist' against a relatively civilised British empire that had a free press, but a hardcore racist otherwise and wasn't above political murders in India itself.

Reading about the Lawrence raid at the moment.Was that terrorism or an act of war ?
Has there been reconciliation over that ?

Deliberately killing civilians is terrorism, yes. Wars tend to brutalize everyone involved, so it's predictable, especially after a farce like the Civil War and the massive corruption and cruelty of northern generals produced a lot of misery and desensitization to such acts on both sides.

Oh dear.

 

[Agit8r]

Its a strange one.
Usually it is the winners who write history but in this instance Jesse has been well served by Hollywood.

I can see how he would be seen as a hero as well.

Bobby Sands is seen as a terrorist in much of the UK but he is a hero in Derry and other parts of Ulster.

Would Missouri still see itself as Southern today or do those distinctions still matter ?

It lies in multiple regions. Even has two regional Federal Reserve banks.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Its a strange one.
Usually it is the winners who write history but in this instance Jesse has been well served by Hollywood.

I can see how he would be seen as a hero as well.

Bobby Sands is seen as a terrorist in much of the UK but he is a hero in Derry and other parts of Ulster.

Would Missouri still see itself as Southern today or do those distinctions still matter ?

It lies in multiple regions. Even has two regional Federal Reserve banks.

Am guessing that not everybody attends "Jesse James" day then.

 

[Picaro]

most people go to Branson.

 

[my2¢]

From little I know Jesse and his brother Frank started out with Quantrill's Raiders, whose attacks on civilians led to even the Confederates being ashamed of them. How much participation did Jesse have with the Raiders?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

From little I know Jesse and his brother Frank started out with Quantrill's Raiders, whose attacks on civilians led to even the Confederates being ashamed of them. How much participation did Jesse have with the Raiders?

From the book I am reading now............Frank rode with Quantrill and was in on the Lawrence raid. Jesse was too young and joined up later. He , and Frank , rode with Bloody Bill Anderson later in the war when Anderson had split from Quantrill.

They were both in on the Centralia massacre which was about as bad as it gets. A troop of unarmed Union soldiers on leave was captured on a train and slaughtered.They scalped them and cut one lads cock off and stuffed it in his mouth. They were scary people. They seemed to mainly kill Union supporting neighbours through the war.

 

[Katzndogz]

there is pretty good evidence that his death was fabricated

and that he survived many years after that

I think that was Billy the Kid.