i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[georgephillip]

If the US had not foolishly persuaded Ukraine to trust Russia, Ukraine would have kept its nuclear missiles and would have needed no help in deterring Russian aggression

I can't believe anyone is sufficiently stupid to believe this tripe. No Ukrainian proxy-puppet would have ever risked the lives of millions to advance US efforts at regime change in Moscow.

 

[georgephillip]

You know very well none of that is true and you know no one else thinks it's true, so the fact that you continue to post such nonsense can lead to only to the conclusion that you have no real interest in what is going on in Ukraine.

I know Ukraine has been a CIA proxy for the last 75 years.

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"The MSM have constructed an undiluted narrative about 'Putin’s War' that disguises America’s imperialist expansion into eastern Europe.

"It is utterly Orwellian in its effort to project onto Russia what the U.S. and its main imperial ally, the UK (which a British journalist deemed 'America’s tugboat'), have been doing non-stop since 1945—and indeed for centuries."

 

[georgephillip]

You along with other pro-Russian American loons operate in 50 years time frame. History of Europe didn't start with creation of NATO, you clueless twat.

Simplistic chicken-shits like you ignore Ukraine's glorious Nazi backstory which is far more relevant to today's events than conflicts from centuries past:

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"On December 16, 2021, a draft resolution of the UN General Assembly was listed as 'Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance.'

"It passed by a recorded vote of 130 in favor (mainly the Third World, constituting the large majority of the world’s population), 51 abstentions (mainly the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Canada), and two opposed, the two being Ukraine and the United States.

"The Western European countries that Hitler conquered and occupied would not condemn present-day manifestations of Nazism and fascism."

 

[toomuchtime_]

What's your estimate of casualty ratios between Ukrainian and Russian forces in Donbass?

SCOTT RITTER: Why Russia Will Still Win, Despite Ukraine's Gains

"The second phase of the Russian operation had the Russians regroup to focus on the liberation of Donbass.

"Here, Russia adapted its operational methodology, using its superiority in firepower to conduct a slow, deliberate advance against Ukrainian forces dug into extensive defensive networks and, in doing so, achieving unheard of casualty ratios that had ten or more Ukrainians being killed or wounded for every Russian casualty."

At the beginning of this war people generally overestimated the effectiveness of the Russian army and greatly underestimated the effectiveness of the Ukrainian army. General Pershing famously said, "Infantry wins battles, logistics wins wars," and the Russian attempt to capture Kyiv failed because the Ukrainian army targeted Russian supply lines so effectively that front line soldiers ran low on food, fuel and ammunition and were unable to replace tanks and trucks they lost, so the Russian army was forced to retreat to positions closer to the Russian border so that its supply lines would not be compromised.

This was the first intelligent thing the Russians had done since the start of the war, and for a short time it worked well and the Russians were able to gradually expand the area they controlled close to the border, but then Ukraine received the HIMARS and used them to again disrupt Russian supply lines and cause shortage of food, fuel and ammunition along the Russian front lines and stopped all progress by the Russian army.

Next, the tactically superior Ukrainian forces recognized the Russian invasion force was far too small to hold on to the area it controlled near the border and manipulated the Russian command to move forces from the north and east to bolster defenses in the south and Ukrainian forces easily broke through the weakened Russian lines in the north and are still driving the Russian army back into Russia, handing Russia its second major defeat in this war.

It should be clear at this point to anyone with eyes that can see and brains that can think that this war is not and never was winnable by Russia and that the present Russian leadership is simply not competent.

 

[georgephillip]

Yep, we we support pro-democratic movements in many countries. We told them that we will recognize their newly government and not halt aid. What we DIDN'T do is fight their battle for them, they did that and they are doing it today against a bloody Russian invasion.

The US government couldn't care less about democracy promotion.

It cares a great deal about promoting the interests of its corporate citizens particularly those who get rich selling weapons responsible for the deaths/displacement of millions of innocent civilians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/14/saudi-arabia-human-rights-mbs-biden/

 

[AntonToo]

The US government couldn't care less about democracy promotion.

Ok Russian poodle, whatever you say.

 

[AntonToo]

Utterly irrelevant.

Wrong, wrong again.

Ukranians effectively using American millitary aid to beat back Russians is DIRECTLY RELAVANT to the charge that our millitary aid is supposedly being squandered.

We are spending to arm Ukraine and we have results to show for it.

 

[georgephillip]

Imagined??? Yeah the USG had nothing to do with wars in Syria, Afghanistan, or Libya.

Are you fucking CRAZY???

Ukraine was in the USG's crosshairs long before Syria, Afghanistan, and Libya:

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"Perhaps Truman’s most destructive initiative was the creation of the CIA, a monster that he later claimed got out of hand, telling a friend 'I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in forty-seven, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo, 'though as president he supported its clandestine activities in Eastern Europe.

"The immediate target was Soviet Ukraine, which the CIA hoped through its clandestine projects to 'crack apart' with saboteurs behind enemy lines."

 

[georgephillip]

The subject here is Russia's horrific invasion of Ukraine; stop trying to change the subject.

As always, you ignore the context of Russia's military operation in Ukraine; the US has been running destabilization attempts in Russia through Ukraine for 75 years, and Putin knows it.

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"By the early 1950s, after parachuting 85 agents into Ukraine, three-quarters of them captured, the CIA conceded that the project was a dismal failure.

"This did not deter the cold warriors from using regime-change mercenaries elsewhere, including the failed Bay of Pigs a decade later."

 

[georgephillip]

Joe Biden had a lot do with that.

And also...

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

 

[georgephillip]

Ukraine is no one's proxy. They are their own country, they have their internationally recognized borders and they chose their own future, not Americans or Russians.

Ukraine has been a US proxy for most of the last four decades.

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"Henceforth, this began a steady progression of NATO enlargement, which certified Ukraine as a future member and a de facto associate member and brought arms deliveries, weapons training, and coordinated war games with the Ukrainian army in anticipation of a war with Russia—along with bank accounts for cooperating Ukrainian politicians."

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong, wrong again.

Ukranians effectively using American millitary aid to beat back Russians is DIRECTLY RELAVANT to the charge that our millitary aid is supposedly being squandered.

We are spending to arm Ukraine and we have results to show for it.

The Ukrainians have given Ivan a bloody nose, which is great. Still this whole ordeal is designed to let Quid Pro and his cronies rob the treasury.

 

[AntonToo]

The Ukrainians have given Ivan a bloody nose, which is great. Still this whole ordeal is designed to let Quid Pro and his cronies rob the treasury.

It's really too bad your are this damn twisted with Biden hate and could never EVER admit US doing the right thing in Ukraine.

 

[AntonToo]

Ukraine has been a US proxy for most of the last four decades.

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"Henceforth, this began a steady progression of NATO enlargement, which certified Ukraine as a future member and a de facto associate member and brought arms deliveries, weapons training, and coordinated war games with the Ukrainian army in anticipation of a war with Russia—along with bank accounts for cooperating Ukrainian politicians."

Cool story Boris, but it was Putin's invasion of Ukraine that directly enlarged NATO to include Sweden and Finland.

Smart, real smart.

 

[ESay]

Simplistic chicken-shits like you ignore Ukraine's glorious Nazi backstory which is far more relevant to today's events than conflicts from centuries past:

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy | MR Online

"On December 16, 2021, a draft resolution of the UN General Assembly was listed as 'Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance.'

"It passed by a recorded vote of 130 in favor (mainly the Third World, constituting the large majority of the world’s population), 51 abstentions (mainly the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Canada), and two opposed, the two being Ukraine and the United States.

"The Western European countries that Hitler conquered and occupied would not condemn present-day manifestations of Nazism and fascism."

Idiot, ethnic and regional conflicts in this part of Europe go back for centuries. And that 'Nazi backstory' is just one part of it that happened much later, despite what Russian propaganda feeds you. Read about the Khmelnytsky uprising and Koliivshchyna as examples. But of course you won't. You are too simple minded for that.

 

[georgephillip]

Bullshit.

It ranks 122/180, thats bellow average but certainly not one of the most corrupt.

2021 Corruption Perceptions Index - Explore Ukraine’s results

How does Ukraine measure up in the 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org

You can also note significant improvement since 2014.

Zelensky's at least as corrupt as the US puppets who preceded him.
He is Ukraine's version of Boris Yeltsin whose principal job is to facilitate the plunder of Ukraine's natural resources the same way Russia was looted in the 1990s; in case you don't understand what corruption is, now you know.

West prepares to plunder post-war Ukraine with neoliberal shock therapy: privatization, deregulation, slashing worker protections - Multipolarista

"While the United States and Europe flood Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars of weapons, using it as an anti-Russian proxy and pouring fuel on the fire of a brutal war that is devastating the country, they are also making plans to essentially plunder its post-war economy.

"Representatives of Western governments and corporations met in Switzerland this July to plan a series of harsh neoliberal policies to impose on post-war Ukraine, calling to cut labor laws, 'open markets,' drop tariffs, deregulate industries, and 'sell state-owned enterprises to private investors.'"

 

[georgephillip]

Russian advance on Kiev was a total MEAT GRINDER. Russians (illigaly) sent in police units to keep civilians on order after take over, who the fuck does that for a fake? But no matter what their goals where, it cost them thousands of soldiers in bodybags, elite paratroopers included.

By all accounts it was a total clusterfuck and embarrassment.

Who told you that?

 

[georgephillip]

You decapitate government and have military fold.

See Afghanistan. They had way more soldiers and hardware than Taliban, but because their leadership was chicken shit and they didn't believe in their country, Taliban rolled them over.

Putin was clearly misinformed about Ukraine, their belief in their state and the resolve of their leadership.

Killing Zelensky would not have decapitated Ukraine's government.
Russia's advance on Kyiv was designed to pin down Ukrainian forces in and around Ukraine's capital while Russian forces shaped the battlefield in Donbass which has always been the principal objective. Nothing that's happened since then has changed the ultimate outcome of the US proxy war in Ukraine; it will end just like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan with millions of murdered, maimed, and displaced civilians and record profits for defense contractors.

 

[georgephillip]

Moron just because our justice system sends people to jail for law breaking, does not mean we don't have freedom of speech and fair political process.

How desparate do you have to be to even suggest that bullshit?

Kind of depends on who writes the laws and whether or not those laws are designed to maintain private prison populations at levels sufficient to keep shareholders happy. The US imprisons a greater percentage of its population than any other country on the planet and that's not an accident.

 

[georgephillip]

“Since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in 30 countries; bombed the civilian population of 30 countries; interfered in elections in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted t ..

That pretty much explains why millions of Ukrainians don't have a home today.
Wonder who's next?