SCOTUS has ruled that abortion isn't a constitutional right.How does fetal dna override the Constitution @ding
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SCOTUS has ruled that abortion isn't a constitutional right.How does fetal dna override the Constitution @ding
I'm not the one making a religious argument. You are. See?Humans are special to the particular GOD you believe in. Is that your belief @ding?
It's ironic that you argue I have no right to impose my religious beliefs on anyone else (when I'm not making a religious argument) and in the next breath you try to impose your religious beliefs on others (i.e. not human until ensoulment).You have no right to impose your religious belief on anyone else. I agree with those of the Jewish faith - not human until ensoulment, as late as first breath.
I never mentioned soul or ensoulment. You did. I'm not making a religious argument. I am making a scientific argument on when human life begins.Christians like you @ding believe the soul is checked in at conception and it comes with original sin. Jewish belief differs in that ensoulment can occur as late first breath and the Jewish newborn soul is pure.
WORDS that come directly from the Talmud : “My God, the soul with which thou hast endowed me is pure.”
So what you said is an expression of your Christian belief. it is not a fact.
Blackstone and Wilson disagree.All persons BORN , that doesn't include fetuses and embryos.
“With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and, in some cases, from every degree of danger.”
The only reason a fetus is aborted that late is because the 20-week checkup showed horrible genetic problems which result in a nonviable fetus or a situation which endangers the mother. It would be a crime to do anything but palliative treatment at that pointBabies born between 23 and 24 weeks who receive comfort care live for about one hour.
Christians are humans. You want to desperately make abortion a religious issue, but it's not. It's a human issue. Of which some are Christians.NFBW2207171003
ding 211227-#203 “There's no good reason to make a religious argument. None is needed. The science is clear.”
ding 220624-#1,324 “Abortion is not a religious issue. Abortion is a human issue.”
ding210929-83 “Sanctity of life is a Christian value.”
ding220717-2,299 “Sanctity of life is a human issue.
NFBW: In September 2021 for you ding sanctity of life was a unique Christian value when you “needed” that in an argument.
This morning sanctity of life is strictly a human issue devoid of Christian and Catholic influence and dogma.
We are seeing how DJT.VVP Christianism works in the raw human delivery of right wing propaganda in the name of God.
Are there two separate ding s residing on our message board?
END2207171003
Says the poster who believes abortion should be based upon ensoulment and wants to force his religious beliefs on others while arguing it's wrong to force religious beliefs on others.Are there two separate @ding s residing on our message board?
“With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life, from its commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and, in some cases, from every degree of danger.”
No. I made the argument that embryology textbooks teach.You @ding attempted to make a scientific argument on when human life begins by citing a scientist who has a definite religious bias.
Ensoulment is a religious argument. I am making a scientific argument. There's no room for discussion of souls in science.If you were an honest fully ensouled by God human being, you would have informed we readers that Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth is influenced by the Holy Roman Catholic Church and that fact must be considered when expressing her “opinion” that a fertilized egg is a human being with the same exact rights as the mother.
“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.”
The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1
“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.”
F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi
“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”
Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.
“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”
Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)
“[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”
Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.
“Although life is a continuous process, fertilization… is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte.”
Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.
“[All] organisms, however large and complex they might be as full grown, begin life as a single cell. This is true for the human being, for instance, who begins life as a fertilized ovum.”
Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co
“The first cell of a new and unique human life begins existence at the moment of conception (fertilization) when one living sperm from the father joins with one living ovum from the mother. It is in this manner that human life passes from one generation to another. Given the appropriate environment and genetic composition, the single cell subsequently gives rise to trillions of specialized and integrated cells that compose the structures and functions of each individual human body. Every human being alive today and, as far as is known scientifically, every human being that ever existed, began his or her unique existence in this manner, i.e., as one cell. If this first cell or any subsequent configuration of cells perishes, the individual dies, ceasing to exist in matter as a living being. There are no known exceptions to this rule in the field of human biology.”
James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)
“In fusing together, the male and female gametes produce a fertilized single cell, the zygote, which is the start of a new individual.”
Rand McNally, Atlas of the Body (New York: Rand McNally, 1980) 139, 144
“The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual. The penetration of the ovum by the spermatozoon, and the coming together and pooling of their respective nuclei, constitutes the process of fertilization.”
Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55
“The zygote therefore contains a new arrangement of genes on the chromosomes never before duplicated in any other individual. The offspring destined to develop from the fertilized ovum will have a genetic constitution different from anyone else in the world.”
DeCoursey, R.M., The Human Organism, 4th edition McGraw Hill Inc., Toronto, 1974. page 584
“The science of the development of the individual before birth is called embryology. It is the story of miracles, describing the means by which a single microscopic cell is transformed into a complex human being. Genetically the zygote is complete. It represents a new single celled individual.”
Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419
“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”
Turner, J.S., and Helms, D.B., Lifespan Developmental, 2nd ed., CBS College Publishing (Holt, Rhinehart, Winston), 1983, page 53
“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)… The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”
Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3
“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun…. The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.”
Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943
“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, [at conception] the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”
Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974
“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”
Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3
“It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.”
Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.
“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. … Fertilization takes place in the oviduct … resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point… This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”
Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.
“Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed… Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments… The zygote … is a unicellular embryo..”
Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O’Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.
“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”
The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18
I'm not forcing anything upon anyone. I am merely providing information so people can make informed decisions. It will be up to each state to decide this for themselves.From the start I informed you that my position is one of absolute religious toleration. I oppose religious authorities imposing their religious beliefs on citizens by any and all coercion of the government be it local, state or federal. So what the hell @ding are you basing your charge about me forcing my beliefs on others?
Yes, sanctity of life is a Christian value, but first and foremost it is a human issue. It is now for the states to decide.NFBW: Is that your scientific evidence fixing the moment when a separate human being exists in the vast and mysterious universe in which we exist? You have a huge problem because that is not what Clark Edward and Corliss Patten are saying. They are saying that the event which most of us learned about in the sixth or seventh grade “constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.” Of course it does. It would be absurd for them to say that it proves that the completion of conception has instantly formed a fully developed human being with the consciousness and equal legal rights of the bodily host. They are not saying that. And you are, basing that on your religious beliefs, solely based upon your religious beliefs.
ding210929-83 “Sanctity of life is a Christian value.” END2207171329