Its July 4th.....Have you thanked a Liberal today???

[Soggy in NOLA]

So, just so I am straight on this - our Founding Father's - Liberals, according to the OP - who owned slaves, believed in God, MINIMAL government, slaughtered Indians - and would probably castrate and boil in oil a "queer" in the public square, are the model to which today's Liberal admires.

Got it.

Thanks.

Ain't it grand? The sheer irony... claim the Founders were just a bunch of old, white, racist homophobes were.. and wait for it... LIBERAL.

That's just ******* priceless.

Where does Thomas Paine fit into your sophomoric analysis?

It really wasn't an analysis... just a remark as to the irony that liberals would claim that the Founders, who they claim to be just a bunch of old (and they weren't really that old) racist white men, were, uhm, liberal.. Maybe sheer stupidity would be a better term than ironic?

What say you?

 

[rightwinger]

They gave us a shitload of revised history, too.

That.... "They ask for so little in return".... gotta be the best comment in the thread. They ask for so little.... they deserve nothing.... and they don't 'ask', they demand..... and.... better yet.... they'll stoop so low as to lay claim to the Founding Fathers in order to take yet more from others.

How embarrassing these leftists are to liberals.

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

 

[bigrebnc1775]

We'll forgo the filth to address the meat of this. if you don't mind Frank

first off, we're celebrating our independence today

so those 'veterans' reponsible lived in the late 1700's

now i do believe we should be thankful that they stood their ground, and against what was a formidable , if not hardened Bitt army

yet in step with this thread, they were seen as the terrorists of the day.

somebody hadda say it.....

~S~

Really? So the cold war Vet who kept the Russians at bay should not be thanked? The Vets who are fighting muslims who want to change our way of life and our political system should also not be thanked? Is that what you mean?

No, they weren't born yet, nor did those conflicts yet exist

please keep the 4th's terms as applied to the OP in the context of the timeframe

thanx

~S~

The Veterans from the days of the founders fought for ours rights. The vet's that followed have defended the rights for all Americans to be able to keep them. From the Germans to the Russian and the muslims.

 

[rightwinger]

They did indeed. And then ******* entitlement junkies like you came along and flipped it. Any you're so deluded that you don't get that.

idiot.

Entitlement junkies?

As the US evolved into a modern society it became clear that social programs were needed to handle the needs of our diverse and expanding population. The elected representatives decided we need popular programs like Social Security, Medicare, VA as well as welfare.

Most modern societies have implemented similar programs

And as the US evolved more, it has proven that it needs to end the entitlements if it wants to continue as a serious and stable country. Thanks to the "evolution of entitlement programs the US is at a point in 2012 where it needs to decide if it should borrow past a point of ever being able to pay it back and eventually collapse due to debt, or cut these wasteful programs and live within our means.


Great point RW.

We don't need to end entitlements but we need to spend within our means. This means we have to end mindless tax cuts, unnecessary wars, overblown military spending and social programs

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That.... "They ask for so little in return".... gotta be the best comment in the thread. They ask for so little.... they deserve nothing.... and they don't 'ask', they demand..... and.... better yet.... they'll stoop so low as to lay claim to the Founding Fathers in order to take yet more from others.

How embarrassing these leftists are to liberals.

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

OH but yes modern day liberals are for enslavement, with the welfare system being enslaved to the government is just as enslaving as owning people.

 

[Antiderivative]

Ain't it grand? The sheer irony... claim the Founders were just a bunch of old, white, racist homophobes were.. and wait for it... LIBERAL.

That's just ******* priceless.

Where does Thomas Paine fit into your sophomoric analysis?

It really wasn't an analysis... just a remark as to the irony that liberals would claim that the Founders, who they claim to be just a bunch of old (and they weren't really that old) racist white men, were, uhm, liberal.. Maybe sheer stupidity would be a better term than ironic?

What say you?

I know sheer stupidity reigns. Heck, Conservatives think Thomas Paine and Jesus were Nazis.

 

[rightwinger]

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

The freedoms generated by our founding fathers were the best available for that time and place. It set the ball rolling for the ultimate freedoms of women, blacks, Indians and gays

if you would have included that in with your original statement RW....i would not have said what i said......because in the beginning.....unless you were a white male landowner......you weren't shit....

Our founding fathers provided a critical first step in individual freedoms

If they had advocated equal rights for blacks, women, Indians and gays the revolution never would have happened

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Where does Thomas Paine fit into your sophomoric analysis?

It really wasn't an analysis... just a remark as to the irony that liberals would claim that the Founders, who they claim to be just a bunch of old (and they weren't really that old) racist white men, were, uhm, liberal.. Maybe sheer stupidity would be a better term than ironic?

What say you?

I know sheer stupidity reigns. Heck, Conservatives think Thomas Paine and Jesus were Nazis.

You are one stupid cock sucker.

 

[California Girl]

That.... "They ask for so little in return".... gotta be the best comment in the thread. They ask for so little.... they deserve nothing.... and they don't 'ask', they demand..... and.... better yet.... they'll stoop so low as to lay claim to the Founding Fathers in order to take yet more from others.

How embarrassing these leftists are to liberals.

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

Yea, cuz all conservatives do wear powdered wigs, own slaves and deny rights to women.

Idiot.

Carry on denying the utter and total failure of entitlements to actually solve anything... that's the left's way. Cling to your outdated and failed ideas and pretend that it's all someone else's fault.

 

[California Girl]

Where does Thomas Paine fit into your sophomoric analysis?

It really wasn't an analysis... just a remark as to the irony that liberals would claim that the Founders, who they claim to be just a bunch of old (and they weren't really that old) racist white men, were, uhm, liberal.. Maybe sheer stupidity would be a better term than ironic?

What say you?

I know sheer stupidity reigns. Heck, Conservatives think Thomas Paine and Jesus were Nazis.

You should be aware, I neg people for using the 'Nazi' label for political point scoring.... it is the sign of a lost argument. You failed.

 

[Contumacious]

Our liberal founding fathers shook the world when they declared that "All men are created equal"

Our Founding fathers were CLASSICAL Liberals - liberals nowadays are state supremacist fascists or socialists.

Really? Is that why Hamilton and Washington waged the Whiskey Rebellion?

They were classical liberals?

Well, the Founders were divided. There were the Federalists who believe in a strong central government. Alexander Hamilton was one of those.

The anti-federalists, ie James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry who did not trust the Federalists.

The new government had the authority to levy excise taxes.

But even Hamilton never sugested that the federal government could finance and managed a welfare state.

.

 

[Antiderivative]

It really wasn't an analysis... just a remark as to the irony that liberals would claim that the Founders, who they claim to be just a bunch of old (and they weren't really that old) racist white men, were, uhm, liberal.. Maybe sheer stupidity would be a better term than ironic?

What say you?

I know sheer stupidity reigns. Heck, Conservatives think Thomas Paine and Jesus were Nazis.

You should be aware, I neg people for using the 'Nazi' label for political point scoring.... it is the sign of a lost argument. You failed.

So you neg the leading Conservative of our time, Glenn Beck?

Honestly, I don't care about your empty threats. If you want to neg me, then neg me. Your empty threats are most amusing. Most rw kooks love to neg me and you fit in nicely in being a rw kook.

So, I take it as an honor.

 

[Antiderivative]

Our Founding fathers were CLASSICAL Liberals - liberals nowadays are state supremacist fascists or socialists.

Really? Is that why Hamilton and Washington waged the Whiskey Rebellion?

They were classical liberals?

Well, the Founders were divided. There were the Federalists who believe in a strong central government. Alexander Hamilton was one of those.

The anti-federalists, ie James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry who did not trust the Federalists.

The new government had the authority to levy excise taxes.

But even Hamilton never sugested that the federal government could finance and managed a welfare state.

.

lol...Hamilton loved welfare, hence is proclivity to establish a centralized bank.

 

[rightwinger]

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

Yea, cuz all conservatives do wear powdered wigs, own slaves and deny rights to women.

Idiot.

Carry on denying the utter and total failure of entitlements to actually solve anything... that's the left's way. Cling to your outdated and failed ideas and pretend that it's all someone else's fault.

Have they "solved anything"?

They have solved poor destitute people dying in the streets, begging door to door, spreading disease, having no safety net, being afraid to age

The US uses the same social programs as every other industrialized country. It is only arch conservatives who advocate a Dickensonian society

Welcome to the 21st century California Girl

 

[Avorysuds]

That.... "They ask for so little in return".... gotta be the best comment in the thread. They ask for so little.... they deserve nothing.... and they don't 'ask', they demand..... and.... better yet.... they'll stoop so low as to lay claim to the Founding Fathers in order to take yet more from others.

How embarrassing these leftists are to liberals.

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

18 or so pages of getting owned and the back tracking begings lol...

"Liberals and the FF are the same... well all the good parts. The bad parts are the what the conservatives stand for."

No no no, not a Trolling thread in any way. Good work RW, you're an idiot...

 

[Avorysuds]

It's the sheer dishonesty that's so galling. Modern liberals have little interest in individual freedoms -- they prefer the collective, insisting on treating people as monolithic blocs, and hating them when they don't stay in their assigned pigeonhole.

The FF as modern liberals? Utterly ludicrous.

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

Yea, cuz all conservatives do wear powdered wigs, own slaves and deny rights to women.

Idiot.

Carry on denying the utter and total failure of entitlements to actually solve anything... that's the left's way. Cling to your outdated and failed ideas and pretend that it's all someone else's fault.

Lol, good call. Maybe RW can get some screen shots of where all Reps wear wigs and beat their wives.

 

[Avorysuds]

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

Yea, cuz all conservatives do wear powdered wigs, own slaves and deny rights to women.

Idiot.

Carry on denying the utter and total failure of entitlements to actually solve anything... that's the left's way. Cling to your outdated and failed ideas and pretend that it's all someone else's fault.

Have they "solved anything"?

They have solved poor destitute people dying in the streets, begging door to door, spreading disease, having no safety net, being afraid to age

The US uses the same social programs as every other industrialized country. It is only arch conservatives who advocate a Dickensonian society

Welcome to the 21st century California Girl

Again RW, evolution will prove (as it is and has) that the entitlement programs you're so proud of will be the downfall of many nations, if something like war does not destroy them first... How well is the US doing with it's programs... =D?

 

[rightwinger]

On this I have to agree with you...

Modern liberals do not wear powdered wigs, own slaves or deny rights to women

Liberal thought evolves to meet the needs of an evolving society......it is only libertarians and Tea Baggers who are stuck in the 18th century

Yea, cuz all conservatives do wear powdered wigs, own slaves and deny rights to women.

Idiot.

Carry on denying the utter and total failure of entitlements to actually solve anything... that's the left's way. Cling to your outdated and failed ideas and pretend that it's all someone else's fault.

Lol, good call. Maybe RW can get some screen shots of where all Reps wear wigs and beat their wives.

Are you sure you do not wear a powdered wig?

Typical rightwing conservative reactionism. Nobody is claiming liberals in the 18th century are identical to liberals today. What has not changed is the concept of liberalism and the inadequacies of conservative thought
Liberals in each generation have fought a new fight be it Woman's rights, civil rights, environmentalism...

What has remained constant is conservative resistance

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The US uses the same social programs as every other industrialized country. It is only arch conservatives who advocate a Dickensonian society

Welcome to the 21st century California Girl

Indeed.

This rightist reactionaryism is nonsense and detrimental to the Nation as a whole.

 

[Antiderivative]

Remember conservatives were against the French Revolution while liberals were for it.