It just dawned on me

TemplarKormac

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Being a veteran of thousands of political forum debates over the years, especially the ones over gay marriage, I've heard the assertion made by a Christian, "gay marriage will hurt my right to practice my faith effectively" and the retort would "how does someone being gay hurt your right to practice your faith effectively?"

So, I had an epiphany which dealt with the latter question. I was reading the news the other day which trumpeted an unprecedented move by the Presbyterian Church to approve of gay marriage. The epiphany? Not only is the Presbyterian church the largest Protestant denomination to endorse/accept gay marriage, it could start a disturbing and destructive trend within Christianity as it is in the United States.

That trend, if it continues, would effectively change the way I worship when and if in fact my denomination chose to approve of gay marriage. I as a Christian personally find this wholly unacceptable and a betrayal of the faith.

"For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ."

--1 Corinthians 8:10-12

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking,but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."

--Romans 14:13-23
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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Well then, feel free to start your own church.
:eusa_doh:

Why? I'm satisfied with the one I'm in. Feel free to tolerate my religious beliefs if you wish. Or, you can go force yourself on an unwary Christian cake maker.
 
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aaronleland

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Modern beliefs have already effected the way you worship. Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.
Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
It means a lot to me mister. I suggest you get over it. It isn't society's place to dictate my beliefs or anyone else's, nor is it yours.
 
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ogibillm

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Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.
Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
It means a lot to me mister. I suggest you get over it. It isn't society's place to dictate my beliefs or anyone else's, nor is it yours.
Others are obligated to believe as you do?
 

aaronleland

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Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.
Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
It means a lot to me mister. I suggest you get over it. It isn't society's place to dictate my beliefs or anyone else's, nor is it yours.
Tell me this. What is "traditional marriage"? Has such a thing ever existed? No Christian has ever been able to answer that question for me.

And it is society's belief that dictate the norm. Your religion doesn't override the beliefs of billions of people.
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.
Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
It means a lot to me mister. I suggest you get over it. It isn't society's place to dictate my beliefs or anyone else's, nor is it yours.
Others are obligated to believe as you do?
No. But are we obligated to believe as you do?
 

ogibillm

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Did you know the Bible speaks more against eating shrimp than it does against homosexuality? Nobody seems to care about that.
Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?

The world changes, and a 2000 year old document doesn't mean shit. Get over it.
It means a lot to me mister. I suggest you get over it. It isn't society's place to dictate my beliefs or anyone else's, nor is it yours.
Others are obligated to believe as you do?
No. But are we obligated to believe as you do?
Nope. But then nobody forced the pentecostals to change their views
 

aaronleland

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Did you know that attempting to use the Old Testament as an argument for homosexuality is old and very disingenuous tactic, right?
Did you know that picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to follow is a very old and disingenuous tactic?
 

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"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. I will let the Lord make judgments, not me.
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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What is "traditional marriage"? Has such a thing ever existed?
What is traditional marriage? There isn't "traditional marriage." Marriage is a practice that is millennia old, it has been established as a societal norm in every culture as between a man and a woman, whether it be one man and 10 women, or 10 women and one man. The constant is that it was heterosexual in nature. Your question is like someone who has lived in a dark room all of his life and asks "what is light? Has such a thing ever existed?" Imagine his surprise when he opens the door.

Your definition of "traditional" is based on policy and political belief. I personally wish to keep government out of marriage altogether, but I also want society to keep to itself out as far as my religious beliefs go.

And it is society's belief that dictate the norm. Your religion doesn't override the beliefs of billions of people
So society gets to override the beliefs of 1.2 billion Christians. Right. I'll just let this ignorance stand on its own.

Question though, in a effort not to be alienated as gay people, why are they seeking to alienate people who don't condone their way of life? Turnabout is fair play? Hardly.
 
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aaronleland

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What is traditional marriage? There isn't "traditional marriage." Marriage is a practice that is millennia old, it has been established as a societal norm in every culture as between a man and a woman. Your question is like someone who has lived in a dark room all of his life and asks "what is light? Has such a thing ever existed?" Imagine his surprise when he opens the door.
In biblical times marriage could be between a man and multiple women. It could even be between a man and multiple underage women. Since that was "traditional marriage" should we revert back to those beliefs because a 2000 year old and continuously edited document tells us to?
 

ogibillm

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What is "traditional marriage"? Has such a thing ever existed?
What is traditional marriage? There isn't "traditional marriage." Marriage is a practice that is millennia old, it has been established as a societal norm in every culture as between a man and a woman. Your question is like someone who has lived in a dark room all of his life and asks "what is light? Has such a thing ever existed?" Imagine his surprise when he opens the door.

Your definition of "traditional" is based on policy and political belief. I personally wish to keep government out of marriage altogether, but I also want society to keep to itself as far as my religious beliefs go.

And it is society's belief that dictate the norm. Your religion doesn't override the beliefs of billions of people
So society gets to override the beliefs of 1.2 billion Christians. Right. I'll just let this ignorance stand on its own.

Question though, in a effort not to be alienated as gay people, why are they seeking to alienate people who don't condone their way of life? Turnabout is fair play? Hardly.
if more people like A over B, a preference for A is the norm. That doesnt mean yhat those with a preference for B get their opinion "overridden"
 

aaronleland

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So society gets to override the beliefs of 1.2 billion Christians. Right. I'll just let this ignorance stand on its own.

Question though, in a effort not to be alienated as gay people, why are they seeking to alienate people who don't condone their way of life? Turnabout is fair play? Hardly.
NOBODY is telling you that you have to marry someone of the same sex. What you are doing is dictating what somebody does in their private life. Those 1.2 billion Christians still get to marry whoever they want.
 

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TemplarKormac

Do you believe in small government?

Do you believe the government should regulate who you love?

You are smart enough to know where I'm going with this question.
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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Did you know that picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to follow is a very old and disingenuous tactic?
Isn't that what you've done? Have you even read the Bible?

I guess not. Because if you had, you would know that Jesus died on Calvary to fulfill the Old Testament law. Therefore we aren't obligated to follow it to the letter, but should not be ignorant of the principles those laws were meant to teach.

Hebrews 8:13

"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."

Romans 7:6

"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code."

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Ephesians 2:11-16

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands -- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end.
 
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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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TemplarKormac

TemplarKormac

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NOBODY is telling you that you have to marry someone of the same sex. What you are doing is dictating what somebody does in their private life.
Did I say that? No. I am not dictating anything to anyone. But your righteous indignance would suggest you wish to force such a way of life onto people of my faith. Methinks thou dost protesteth too much.
 

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