It is not getting better

[Toddsterpatriot]

The change in proportionality between ring thickness and temperature was well known within dendrochronology for years before that stupid email. So, where and when do you believe their proxy failed because the time period where Mike's Nature trick was applied is well covered by instrument data.

So, where and when do you believe their proxy failed

The proxy didn't fail? That's a relief.
They won't need to add instrument data to proxy data to hide anything.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The dumber deniers are pretending they've given the original Ottmar Edenhofer quote. The smarter ones won't touch the topic, because they know Frank is lying.

How can we be certain he's lying? Because the original is IN FREAKIN' GERMAN. Frank has never linked to anything except some English-language denier propaganda pages.

I will link to the original. And no one will be surprised. I mean, when has any liberal here not been able to back up their claims?

«Klimapolitik verteilt das Weltvermögen neu» | NZZ

NZZ am Sonntag: Herr Edenhofer, beim Klimaschutz fordern alle eine Reduzierung von Emissionen. Sie sprechen jetzt von «gefährlicher Emissionsreduzierung». Was ist das?Ottmar Edenhofer: Bisher ging Wirtschaftswachstum immer Hand in Hand mit dem Wachstum der Treibhausgasemissionen. Ein Prozent...

www.nzz.ch

A good translation:
---
Fundamentally, it is a big mistake to discuss climate politics separately from the big issues of globalization. The climate summit in Cancún at end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves under our feet – and we can only add 400 gigatons more to the atmosphere if we want to stay within the 2 °C target. 11,000 to 400 – we have to face the fact that a large part of the fossil reserves must remain in the ground.

De facto, this is the expropriation of the countries with these natural resources. This leads to an entirely different development than the one that has been initiated with development policy.

First of all, we as industrialized countries have quasi-expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must explicitly say: We de facto redistribute the world’s wealth due to climate politics. That the owners of coal and oil are not enthusiastic about this is obvious. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate politics is environmental politics. This has almost nothing to do any more with environmental politics, [as is was with] with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.
---

Compare that to Frank's fake translation, which deliberately omits vital context.

---

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
---

Mr. Edenhofer was clearly describing the _current_ economic situation, where poor nations subsidize rich nations by allowing them to pollute the world's atmosphere.

Some denier liar twisted the words about and pretended that Mr. Edenhofer was calling for global monetary wealth distribution.

Frank, being a particularly brainless fascist parrot, gleefully copied the big lie. Being that he's a shockingly immoral bootlicker, he keeps repeating the lie even after it was specifically pointed out just how he was lying.

That's why anything Frank says should initially be assumed to be a lie, unless independent evidence indicates otherwise.

Frank, do you have any regrets at all over your years of lying, or, as usual, are you only sorry about getting busted?

Are you claiming it was mistranslated from German?

I'll add that to your list of dumb excuses

Ottmar: "First of all, we as industrialized countries have quasi-expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must explicitly say: We de facto redistribute the world’s wealth due to climate politics. That the owners of coal and oil are not enthusiastic about this is obvious. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate politics is environmental politics. This has almost nothing to do any more with environmental politics, [as is was with] with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

My sig line: "But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

We'll add your "the original was in German!" and "vital context" excuse to: Ottmar was not speaking on behalf of the IPCC and Ottmar was made up by Deniers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Are you claiming it was mistranslated from German?

I'll add that to your list of dumb excuses

Ottmar: "First of all, we as industrialized countries have quasi-expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must explicitly say: We de facto redistribute the world’s wealth due to climate politics. That the owners of coal and oil are not enthusiastic about this is obvious. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate politics is environmental politics. This has almost nothing to do any more with environmental politics, [as is was with] with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

My sig line: "But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

We'll add your "the original was in German!" and "vital context" excuse to: Ottmar was not speaking on behalf of the IPCC and Ottmar was made up by Deniers.

Will mamooth explain the VITAL context?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Vital context check "First of all, we as industrialized countries have quasi-expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must explicitly say: We de facto redistribute the world’s wealth due to climate politics. That the owners of coal and oil are not enthusiastic about this is obvious. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate politics is environmental politics. This has almost nothing to do any more with environmental politics, [as is was with] with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

mamooth will explain how the 2 highlighted sentences negate my summarized presentation "But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

Take it away!

 

[mamooth]

Are you claiming it was mistranslated from German?

No. I'm claiming context was deliberately left out.

Pointing out it's in German was to illustrate just how flagrantly deniers have all lied when they claim to have posted his orginal words.

mamooth will explain how the 2 highlighted sentences negate my summarized presentation "But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

I just did, simply and directly, sending you off on one of your usual deflections.

You've spent years claiming that Mr. Ottmar was demanding wealth redistribution from wealthy to poor.

That never happened. He was pointing out that the current system transfers wealth from poor to rich.

What exactly about such a simple explanation confuses you so?

Now, if you'd like to claim that you're not dishonest, you're just too stupid to parse simple German/English, I think everyone would believe that. Is that what you're claiming?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No. I'm claiming context was deliberately left out.

Pointing out it's in German was to illustrate just how flagrantly deniers have all lied when they claim to have posted his orginal words.



I just did, simply and directly, sending you off on one of your usual deflections.

You've spent years claiming that Mr. Ottmar was demanding wealth redistribution from wealthy to poor.

That never happened. He was pointing out that the current system transfers wealth from poor to rich.

What exactly about such a simple explanation confuses you so?

Now, if you'd like to claim that you're not dishonest, you're just too stupid to parse simple German/English, I think everyone would believe that. Is that what you're claiming?

OMG! You should write comedy - for Carrottop!

You wanted me to post it - in German?

He didn't say "the current system transfers wealth from poor to rich" unless it said in German. Can you site that quote please? He was talking about using climate change to redistribute wealth, which likely means from the USA to the rest of the world

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

OMG! You should write comedy - for Carrottop!

You wanted me to post it - in German?

He didn't say "the current system transfers wealth from poor to rich" unless it said in German. Can you site that quote please? He was talking about using climate change to redistribute wealth, which likely means from the USA to the rest of the world

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy... This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore...." Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC

The rich countries took the air, so the poor countries can't use it now.
We need to take money from the oil companies and hand it to the poor countries.

 

[jc456]

No. I'm claiming context was deliberately left out.

what was left out? it is a statement! from Capitalized first word to end punctuation. One statement!!! how can context be missing? Come on cat lady!!!

 

[mamooth]

You wanted me to post it - in German?

Not post, but if you're going to claim to be using the original source, you should have linked to the original, and then offered a full translation. Instead, you used a one-sentence summary that was deliberately edited for dishonesty.

He was talking about using climate change to redistribute wealth, which likely means from the USA to the rest of the world

Clearly not, since that sentence is being used in the present tense, while your bizarre intepretation would require it be used in the future tense or imperative mood.

At this stage, I think it's clear to everyone that you really are too dim to understand basic English.

And that means I feel like I'm picking on a short bus kid now.

 

[jc456]

The rich countries took the air, so the poor countries can't use it now.
We need to take money from the oil companies and hand it to the poor countries.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Crick]

So, where and when do you believe their proxy failed

The proxy didn't fail? That's a relief.
They won't need to add instrument data to proxy data to hide anything.

Are you afraid to answser the question?

Because of the proportionality change, the tail end of the tree ring data didn't match up with the beginning of the instrumental data. That was what was fixed. Nothing was hidden. The presented data are accurate. If you think otherwise, let's see some evidence besides your erroneous interpretation of three words in an email. You know, like actual temperature data.

We both know you lack that critical piece so why not cease and desist wasting all our time with this vapid bullshit? It's beneath you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you afraid to answser the question?

Because of the proportionality change, the tail end of the tree ring data didn't match up with the beginning of the instrumental data. That was what was fixed. Nothing was hidden. The presented data are accurate. If you think otherwise, let's see some evidence besides your erroneous interpretation of three words in an email. You know, like actual temperature data.

Because of the proportionality change, the tail end of the tree ring data didn't match up with the beginning of the instrumental data

The tree ring proxy failed at the end. Was that why Mann added instrument data to tree ring data to hide the decline?

 

[Crick]

Mann was attempting to show the temperature, not demonstrate dendrochronology. Where instrument data were available, there was no need to show proxy data.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not post, but if you're going to claim to be using the original source, you should have linked to the original, and then offered a full translation. Instead, you used a one-sentence summary that was deliberately edited for dishonesty.


Clearly not, since that sentence is being used in the present tense, while your bizarre intepretation would require it be used in the future tense or imperative mood.

At this stage, I think it's clear to everyone that you really are too dim to understand basic English.

And that means I feel like I'm picking on a short bus kid now.

You have an impossible job, I hope your agitprop supervisors know it.

I’m not sure where future tense means stealing from the rich to give to the poor, but what else can you say? I know you’re full of crap, you know you’re full of crap. I promise I won’t tell the other posters.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Mann was attempting to show the temperature, not demonstrate dendrochronology. Where instrument data were available, there was no need to show proxy data.

Where instrument data were available, there was no need to show proxy data.

Why the need to combine the two?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Where instrument data were available, there was no need to show proxy data.

Why the need to combine the two?

Hide
The
Decline

 

[skookerasbil]

LoL...Mammoth...

 

[mamooth]

Since the deniers are just crying or trolling now, it's time to carve another notch and walk away.

I need me a new stick. This one is falling apart, it's got so many notches.

 

[ding]

Since the deniers are just crying or trolling now, it's time to carve another notch and walk away.

I need me a new stick. This one is falling apart, it's got so many notches.

Anytime you want to get embarrassed in the bull ring debating AGW, give me a call. You can even bring your stick.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since the deniers are just crying or trolling now, it's time to carve another notch and walk away.

I need me a new stick. This one is falling apart, it's got so many notches.

Tough to be Agitprop these days with 30+ years of failed predictions