Israel's Orthodox Protest Draft

[Lipush]

There's more than one kind of Haredi Jews in Israel. There are those who're very involved and help and vote and respect the state.

And there are those like Satmar and Neturei Karta who do not. So it depends which kind of ultra orthodox you speak of.

Why should they respect the state, when the state doesn't respect their religion?

What make you think we don't?

 

[Lipush]

How does the state not respect their religion?

They used it to create a nation against the teachings of the Torah.

The Israeli government has as much to do with Judaism, as the Nazis did with democracy.

Why would any orthodox jew fight for that?

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

 

[Billo_Really]

What make you think we don't?

You created a nation that the Torah say's only God can create.

 

[Billo_Really]

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance?
Do most priests rape little boys?
Over 90% of the Orthodox Jews in Israel serve in the IDF.
They are annoyed at the 10%, or less, who want the food stamps but won't serve.

So you're not a citizen of Israel until you've killed a Palestinian with your bare hands?

 

[Roudy]

I can see both sides of the argument...

Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service, and many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

Those serivice-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government and are being protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens and need to begin making more of a manpower contribution to both national defense and national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package)...

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves.

There IS another form of National Service that SOME of them are joining but MANY refuse to do even that.

I had 9 first cousins (2 girls and 7 guys). 8 of them served in the regular Israeli army, including one girl. One guy, Amichai (which means in Hebrew "My nation lives"), was given that name because he was born on Israel Independence Day. He was killed at 19, in a training exercise accident, in the army. Thank G-d all the rest survived. One girl was too observant to join the army. She did her National Service for 2 years, in places such as hospitals.

Most Israeli youth consider it an honor and privilege to serve for their country. I've known some who qualified for the "exceptions", and still served because they wanted to, and also because they couldn't face their friends if they didn't. Israeli youth are very nationalistic.

 

[Roudy]

no, you're not a Palestinian until you get fitted for a suicide belt.

 

[Roudy]

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

Ha ha ha. 16 million Jews worldwide disagree with that interpretation.

Having a hard time staying on topic? Let me remind you the orthodox aren't refusing to serve because they disagree with Israel's right to exist, they refuse to serve because they claim their religion does not allow them to kill for any reason. Which isn't true.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

Ha ha ha. 16 million Jews worldwide disagree with that interpretation.

Having a hard time staying on topic? Let me remind you the orthodox aren't refusing to serve because they disagree with Israel's right to exist, they refuse to serve because they claim their religion does not allow them to kill for any reason. Which isn't true.

That's very hard to understand. Unlike, say, the Amish or Quakers, Judaism has a militaristic tradition--Joshua, David, Bar-Kochba, the Maccabees, etc.

 

[Lipush]

What make you think we don't?

You created a nation that the Torah say's only God can create.

where does the Torah say it?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

What make you think we don't?

You created a nation that the Torah say's only God can create.

where does the Torah say it?

Billo is a Judaic scholar. Didn't you know that?

 

[toastman]

How does the state not respect their religion?

They used it to create a nation against the teachings of the Torah.

The Israeli government has as much to do with Judaism, as the Nazis did with democracy.

Why would any orthodox jew fight for that?

Where do you come up with this drivel?? Does some one pay you to make this shit up?

As for your last question, the answer is because they receive all the benefits that all citizens do. Stupid question from a stupid person

 

[toastman]

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

How do you know God wasnt there when Israel was created?

 

[Roudy]

What make you think we don't?

You created a nation that the Torah say's only God can create.

In that case all nations should be null and void.

My suggestion: stay off the PCP.

 

[Roudy]

The Torah doesn't go against establishing a nation. Do you make this stuff up as you go?

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

How do you know God wasnt there when Israel was created?

Especially considering how israel won all those wars against groups of Arab nations, against all odds, and without any help.

Turns one into a believer.

 

[Billo_Really]

How do you know God wasnt there when Israel was created?

Because HE told me HE wasn't, in an email HE sent me a week ago, Tuesday.

 

[toastman]

How do you know God wasnt there when Israel was created?

Because HE told me HE wasn't, in an email HE sent me a week ago, Tuesday.

Uhhh God doesnt use Email, everyone knows that. He's old fashioned, he used regular mail. It must have been an imposter who emailed you

 

[Indeependent]

What make you think we don't?

You created a nation that the Torah say's only God can create.

You DO remember that the Jews returned to Israel in Daniel's time and Ezra's time without any overt revelation by God.
Ezra, in fact, spear-headed the building of the 2nd Temple.

Oh, I forgot, you can't remember something you never knew in the first place.

 

[Indeependent]

The 3 Oaths say the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back to earth to create the state of Israel.

Ha ha ha. 16 million Jews worldwide disagree with that interpretation.

Having a hard time staying on topic? Let me remind you the orthodox aren't refusing to serve because they disagree with Israel's right to exist, they refuse to serve because they claim their religion does not allow them to kill for any reason. Which isn't true.

That's very hard to understand. Unlike, say, the Amish or Quakers, Judaism has a militaristic tradition--Joshua, David, Bar-Kochba, the Maccabees, etc.

Real Jews love kicking butt.

 

[Billo_Really]

You DO remember that the Jews returned to Israel in Daniel's time and Ezra's time without any overt revelation by God.
Ezra, in fact, spear-headed the building of the 2nd Temple.

Oh, I forgot, you can't remember something you never knew in the first place.

I'm a white Irish Catholic from Long Beach, Calif.

Don't look to me for any comprehensive answers regarding the Jewish religion.

I only know what I've read so far. I am definitely not an expert.