Israel's inquiry into death of activist Rachel Corrie not credible, says US

[MikeK]

All anyone has to do is take a look at the links of the D-9 and read the explanation of the angles and it should be clear
It was a stupid accident and would have not occurred had the IDF removed the girl from the site.

It was no accident. But she should have been removed.

 

[Hossfly]

yes in fact Eric Gardner makes an excellent point that applies to many many tragic deaths and injuries of young idealistic kids lured into HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE causes even not so young but somewhat dippy adults When I was a kid----in college I became convinced that no matter how dippy the cause--------it could attract followers I liked to ask demonstrators just what the DEMONSTRATION was all about-------some of them had no actual realistic notion being in a demonstration IS fun-----I did a few myself

But when the deaths are avoidable do you believe these impetuous kids should be cruelly murdered?

Keep in mind I said Rachel Corrie could have been booted in the ass by some IDF trooper and deported and you would have heard nothing from me. But she was a young girl and what was done to her was very wrong. It is the kind of thing that evokes festering hatred.

Just as you and others think it was no accident, there are many others who consider it an accident. Everyone is entitled to his opinion about this unless you are one of those individuals who think otherwise and only your opinion and those who think the same as you are right and that there is no possibility that others might be right. By the way, it has never been brought up, but how do we know it wasn't a Druze driving the bulldozer? There are many in the IDF. Maybe since Mike is so sure it was no accident, he is sure about who was driving the bulldozer. I also wonder if Rachel Corrie is going to be dragged up again and again just like she has over the years instead of finally letting her rest in peace.



jt2

 

[Hossfly]

It is nothing short of an absolute moral question to politely ask: who would be so low and degraded to mock the brutal death of a young girl at the hands of one of the world's most ruthless military machines?????


The answer is beyond obvious: Zionist Jews

But meanwhile, Skitt and others with the same mind set had nothing and still have nothing to say about the Muslims who are brutally murdering those who are non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects. How come you were so quiet about this on the Middle East Discussion Board, Schizo? Too busy pulling up Gay porn pictures?. Were you scratching your head trying to figure out how you could blame the "Zionists" for fhis instead of putting the blame where it belongs?



jt2

 

[MikeK]

yes in fact Eric Gardner makes an excellent point that applies to many many tragic deaths and injuries of young idealistic kids lured into HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE causes even not so young but somewhat dippy adults When I was a kid----in college I became convinced that no matter how dippy the cause--------it could attract followers I liked to ask demonstrators just what the DEMONSTRATION was all about-------some of them had no actual realistic notion being in a demonstration IS fun-----I did a few myself

But when the deaths are avoidable do you believe these impetuous kids should be cruelly murdered?

Keep in mind I said Rachel Corrie could have been booted in the ass by some IDF trooper and deported and you would have heard nothing from me. But she was a young girl and what was done to her was very wrong. It is the kind of thing that evokes festering hatred.

Just as you and others think it was no accident, there are many others who consider it an accident. Everyone is entitled to his opinion about this unless you are one of those individuals who think otherwise and only your opinion and those who think the same as you are right and that there is no possibility that others might be right. By the way, it has never been brought up, but how do we know it wasn't a Druze driving the bulldozer? There are many in the IDF. Maybe since Mike is so sure it was no accident, he is sure about who was driving the bulldozer. I also wonder if Rachel Corrie is going to be dragged up again and again just like she has over the years instead of finally letting her rest in peace.

jt2

I don't know what the operator's ethnicity is and I don't care. Whatever he is that court should not have allowed him to walk away from what he did.

 

[irosie91]

I don't know what the operator's ethnicity is and I don't care. Whatever he is that court should not have allowed him to walk away from what he did.


some day you or one of yours may be involved in a motor vehicle accident ----in which someone is either injured badly or even killed-----I certainly hope that if and when it happens that the judge and jury in the case opt to call it MURDER

 

[Hossfly]

But when the deaths are avoidable do you believe these impetuous kids should be cruelly murdered?

Keep in mind I said Rachel Corrie could have been booted in the ass by some IDF trooper and deported and you would have heard nothing from me. But she was a young girl and what was done to her was very wrong. It is the kind of thing that evokes festering hatred.

Just as you and others think it was no accident, there are many others who consider it an accident. Everyone is entitled to his opinion about this unless you are one of those individuals who think otherwise and only your opinion and those who think the same as you are right and that there is no possibility that others might be right. By the way, it has never been brought up, but how do we know it wasn't a Druze driving the bulldozer? There are many in the IDF. Maybe since Mike is so sure it was no accident, he is sure about who was driving the bulldozer. I also wonder if Rachel Corrie is going to be dragged up again and again just like she has over the years instead of finally letting her rest in peace.

jt2

I don't know what the operator's ethnicity is and I don't care. Whatever he is that court should not have allowed him to walk away from what he did.

If the operator got down on his hands and knees and swore to you that he never saw her, you wouldn't believe him anyway. You mentioned in this thread that this is what festers hatred. Then you would agree that it would be quite normal for 9/11 to fester hatred toward the Muslims since it was Muslims who committed this deed. Here were people just innocently working at their jobs and not protesting in a foreign country for some organization like the ISM, and they were killed or injured by what happened. They were not hiding terrorists in their offices like the ISM did. I know that as a humanitarian, you were appalled when this terrorist was a suicide bomber at Mike's Place. The people in there were just enjoing their day, and certainly didn't expect a suicide bomber to detonate himself.



jt2

 

[irosie91]

If the trial had taken place in a US COURTROOM -----there are many such trials in the US----both criminal and civil I believe that the outcome would have been the same. If the trial took place in a US MILITARY COURT the driver of the bulldozer may have lost some rank if it could be found that he violated some military directive regarding "CLEARING THE AREA OF CIVILIANS. If the "peaceful demonstration" of the ISM had taken place in the USA ------the participants would have been arrested before they got into trouble. Israel faces a problem in arresting "peaceful demonstrators" Islamo nazis make propaganda hay out of it

 

[irosie91]

First, yes it can stop on a dime! A dozer is a heavy, slow-moving machine which is controlled by two steering clutches and two very powerful steering brakes that lock the tracks when depressed. So for someone who doesn't have any idea what she's talking about you are relentless.

I was an Engineer/Operator permanently assiged to 105mm Howitzer batteries (artillery). My main job in the field was digging gun pits and leveling the surrounding area for FDC tents. When moving into a shooting position the activity was hectic to say the least. Marines were running around all over the place -- in front, alongside, and behind me while I was doing all sorts of pivotal movements as well as forward and backward blading. So please don't tell me this Israeli operator didn't see a 5'6" girl in a bright red jacket who just "happened" to end up in front of his blade with absolutely no peripheral distractions going on.

Because your argument is patently foolish as well as simply wrong.

The girl was 5' 6" tall. The blade is 6' tall when resting on the ground. The engine cowling behind the blade adds at least another 3'. Tvgh posted a video showing the view from the cab. I posted a picture showing the angle where she was standing in relation to the driver. All the above would have strong argument in a court of law.

That would depend on who dominates the court. Because what you are saying is nothing less than 6' tall is safe from being crushed by a dozer.

There comes a time when the nonsense has to stop. It gets disgusting after awhile.

No mass of that weight can STOP ON A DIME ask sir isaac newton and consult your high school physics text. as to MOVING SLOWLY------excellent excellent point and one I have cited very frequently------the thing was MOVING SLOWLY which gave corrie PLENTY OF TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE WAY The only reasonable scenario is that she DID but that the mound of earth on which she stood gave way -----and she fell forward into the tracks of the ---fan belt wheel thing------which is PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED she miscalculated as to how NEAR to the machine she could safely dance and wiggle her ass and the driver did not know she wanted to be a CUTE LITTLE DARE-DEVIL in sum CORRIE WAS PLAYING A GAME FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT OF HER FRIENDS such games sometimes do end in the death of a child

 

[tjvh]

Even if that were true does it mean it's possible for a bulldozer operator to run down a standing adult human wearing a bright red jacket on a bright sunny day because he didn't see her? Let me assure you it's not possible. The only way it might be possible is if she crouched and deliberately sneaked in front of his blade from the side -- and even then there is an equal chance the operator would see her.

In FACT the DETAILED eyewitness account did describe her OFF TO THE SIDE of the wheel and as the bulldozer advanced the mound of earth upon which she stood DID GIVE WAY and she fell forward under the into the path of the wheel It is very possible that either the driver did not see her or ASSUMED she was not in danger and would certainly STEP BACK away from the Wheel YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT THE DRIVER THOUGHT SHE WAS SUICIDAL Of course you would PREFER to create the impression that the driver chased her around the field ------but, in fact,----she was near and not in the direct path of the dozer until she FELL FORWARD The very first eye witness accounts even described her as suddenly appearing PANICKY when the mound of earth on which she stood gave way. She did not expect to die and the driver did not expect to run over her It was obvious from the early descripttions that later somehow got modified. One of the brilliant "witnesses" even claimed that the driver ran over her body OVER AND OVER AND OVER again yeah right

What "wheel?" A dozer is not steered with a wheel.

And if Corrie were "off to the side," how did she end up under the blade? Believe me, a dozer operator has full and unobstructed view of everything in front of his blade. If this were not so then there would be thousands of massive accidents caused by bulldozers all over the world every day.

In response to highlight above^: NONSENSE.

 

[irosie91]

In FACT the DETAILED eyewitness account did describe her OFF TO THE SIDE of the wheel and as the bulldozer advanced the mound of earth upon which she stood DID GIVE WAY and she fell forward under the into the path of the wheel It is very possible that either the driver did not see her or ASSUMED she was not in danger and would certainly STEP BACK away from the Wheel YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT THE DRIVER THOUGHT SHE WAS SUICIDAL Of course you would PREFER to create the impression that the driver chased her around the field ------but, in fact,----she was near and not in the direct path of the dozer until she FELL FORWARD The very first eye witness accounts even described her as suddenly appearing PANICKY when the mound of earth on which she stood gave way. She did not expect to die and the driver did not expect to run over her It was obvious from the early descripttions that later somehow got modified. One of the brilliant "witnesses" even claimed that the driver ran over her body OVER AND OVER AND OVER again yeah right

What "wheel?" A dozer is not steered with a wheel.

And if Corrie were "off to the side," how did she end up under the blade? Believe me, a dozer operator has full and unobstructed view of everything in front of his blade. If this were not so then there would be thousands of massive accidents caused by bulldozers all over the world every day.

In response to highlight above^: NONSENSE.

it is not only nonsensical in terms of view-----the operative phrase is END UP------the earth was clearly being CHURNED up by the pressure of the slowly moving dozer ----so objects ENDED UP WHERE THEY ENDED UP-------the question HOW DID SHE END UP -----is as silly as denying that a person hit by a truck can END UP-----20 feet from the site of impact The FORCES INVOLVED ARE TOO NUMEROUS AND TOO UNKNOWN to calculate exactly where she would END UP ask HEISENBERG even he would be UNCERTAIN

 

[MikeK]

No mass of that weight can STOP ON A DIME ask sir isaac newton and consult your high school physics text. as to MOVING SLOWLY------excellent excellent point and one I have cited very frequently------the thing was MOVING SLOWLY which gave corrie PLENTY OF TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE WAY The only reasonable scenario is that she DID but that the mound of earth on which she stood gave way -----and she fell forward into the tracks of the ---fan belt wheel thing------which is PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED she miscalculated as to how NEAR to the machine she could safely dance and wiggle her ass and the driver did not know she wanted to be a CUTE LITTLE DARE-DEVIL in sum CORRIE WAS PLAYING A GAME FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT OF HER FRIENDS such games sometimes do end in the death of a child

Anyone who persists in pontificating on a topic they know absolutely nothing about is plainly and proudly stupid. And that's all I have to say to you.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

No mass of that weight can STOP ON A DIME ask sir isaac newton and consult your high school physics text. as to MOVING SLOWLY------excellent excellent point and one I have cited very frequently------the thing was MOVING SLOWLY which gave corrie PLENTY OF TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE WAY The only reasonable scenario is that she DID but that the mound of earth on which she stood gave way -----and she fell forward into the tracks of the ---fan belt wheel thing------which is PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED she miscalculated as to how NEAR to the machine she could safely dance and wiggle her ass and the driver did not know she wanted to be a CUTE LITTLE DARE-DEVIL in sum CORRIE WAS PLAYING A GAME FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT OF HER FRIENDS such games sometimes do end in the death of a child

Anyone who persists in pontificating on a topic they know absolutely nothing about is plainly and proudly stupid. And that's all I have to say to you.

She was playing Russian Roulette.

 

[tjvh]

Moral of the story... If you play hide and seek with a 49 ton Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer and lose... Don't look for very many shoulders to cry on.

 

[MHunterB]

No mass of that weight can STOP ON A DIME ask sir isaac newton and consult your high school physics text. as to MOVING SLOWLY------excellent excellent point and one I have cited very frequently------the thing was MOVING SLOWLY which gave corrie PLENTY OF TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE WAY The only reasonable scenario is that she DID but that the mound of earth on which she stood gave way -----and she fell forward into the tracks of the ---fan belt wheel thing------which is PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED she miscalculated as to how NEAR to the machine she could safely dance and wiggle her ass and the driver did not know she wanted to be a CUTE LITTLE DARE-DEVIL in sum CORRIE WAS PLAYING A GAME FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT OF HER FRIENDS such games sometimes do end in the death of a child

Anyone who persists in pontificating on a topic they know absolutely nothing about is plainly and proudly stupid. And that's all I have to say to you.

That explains why you keep on posting your nonsense, yes.

 

[MikeK]

Moral of the story... If you play hide and seek with a 49 ton Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer and lose... Don't look for very many shoulders to cry on.

That's one way to look at it.

Another view is Corrie was gambling that the Israeli operating the bulldozer was as civilized and as fundamentally human as was the Chinese driver of the tank at Tienanmen Square in Beijing, 1989. My guess is she based that wager on the notion that an Israeli would not behave with the same lack of basic human compassion and with the kind of casual, brutish cruelty as did the Nazis in places like Auschwitz, et. al.

But little by little the world is beginning to learn an important truth and to see just how mistaken Rachel Corrie was.

 

[Billo_Really]

interfering with policing activities is illegal no matter where a person is standing...

Not when the "policing activities" are illegal themselves.

 

[Billo_Really]

It was no accident. But she should have been removed.

No. The bulldozer and the IDF should have been removed. They had no legal right to be there in the first place.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Moral of the story... If you play hide and seek with a 49 ton Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer and lose... Don't look for very many shoulders to cry on.

That's one way to look at it.

Another view is Corrie was gambling that the Israeli operating the bulldozer was as civilized and as fundamentally human as was the Chinese driver of the tank at Tienanmen Square in Beijing, 1989. My guess is she based that wager on the notion that an Israeli would not behave with the same lack of basic human compassion and with the kind casual, brutish cruelty as did the Nazis in places like Auschwitz.

But little by little the world is beginning to learn an important truth and to see just how mistaken Rachel Corrie was.

That picture of what happened in China was in a paved square, with no mounds of sand, dirt and gravel lying around.

 

[sealadaigh]

Moral of the story... If you play hide and seek with a 49 ton Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer and lose... Don't look for very many shoulders to cry on.

love this "blame the victim" rules. sort of reminds me of "the woman who was raped was asking for it because of her dress and behaviour."

how about these "moral of the story"s...
"jews shouldn't eat in al quds pizzerias"
"jews shouldn't have passover seders in public hotels near netanya."
"gaza evacuees should not move to itamar or any other illegal west bank settlement."
"jewish fathers should not push their children in strollers across parking lots in al khalil."

death is a two way street and so is injustice. the israelis act with complete impumnity and disregard for any human life other than jews. the killer of rachel corrie made a mistake. the killers of iman al-hams made a mistake. the killers of the salmouni family made a mistake.

but oh, sweet justice...the israeli military courts did find a certain SSgt. S guilty of illegal use of a weapon and did sentence him to 45 days. all he did was shoot down a mother and her daughter who were waving a white flag during the gaza op.

i won't say the IDF are worse than the NAZIs, i don't think anyone was or is, but i think the IDF is the equal to the NAZIs, and a lot of you support and encourage such atrocities.

you disgust and nauseate me beyond belief. that young woman did not need to die. she was protesting the ILLEGAL demolition of palestinian homes. you make jokes about her death. what kind of sick culture do you people come from.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

i won't say the IDF are worse than the NAZIs, i don't think anyone was or is, but i think the IDF is the equal to the NAZIs, and a lot of you support and encourage such atrocities.

[...]

I wouldn't say that, either. But there is a significant difference in that the Nazis made no attempt to deny or conceal their malevolent barbarity and sense of supremacy.