No. I don't understand what you mean.
Israeli Official Spills: We Knew Obama Wanted ‘Revenge’
- Thread starter Antares
- Start date
No. I don't understand what you mean.
- Moderator
- #122
- Moderator
- #123
Precisely, and that is what you have an issue with. It doesn't align with your ideals, therefore it must be wrong or "disrespectful."
PaintMyHouse
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #124
Being out for number one means you are not an ally. That is a communal thing.
It's not spinning. It's how frigging negotiations work - you start somewhere and the idea of those borders plus landswaps has been around. In fact, I think Olmert even offered something similar but was out of office before it could come about or be rejected. But when Obama says it - oops, it's he "hates Israel".
Calling another foreign leader, in private, "chickenshit" does not mean you hate that country.
Somewhere I read something about embarressing faux pas over the years where State Department officials had made derogatory notes about various dignitaries. It's the same sort of thing.
The thing is - you don't have any actual policies or actions that indicate Obama hates Israel. Clearly Obama and Netanyahu, as persons, don't get along well.
ninja007
Gold Member
Obama hates Israel and the US. FACT.
PaintMyHouse
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #127
You need to grow up, fact.
No - I don't have an issue with that. Israel can and should do what is in it's best interest - it's it's own nation. But that doesn't mean it's in our best interests and it doesn't mean it is not disrespectful to us. Likewise, we do what is in our best interests and it may clash with what Israel wants.
- Moderator
- #129
I've got to be in bed early tonight, so consider this my last response:
When you call their leader "chickenshit" you essentially call the country he came from "chickenshit." You disrespect the people who voted for him. Basically it shows a lack of respect for the country in general.
I gave you plenty of actions, you chose to dismiss them out of hand or explain them away. "
Okay then, why does Obama wish to "reassess" America's stances with Israel at the UN? That's the primary act of hatred towards Israel, right there.
When you call their leader "chickenshit" you essentially call the country he came from "chickenshit." You disrespect the people who voted for him. Basically it shows a lack of respect for the country in general.
I gave you plenty of actions, you chose to dismiss them out of hand or explain them away. "
Okay then, why does Obama wish to "reassess" America's stances with Israel at the UN? That's the primary act of hatred towards Israel, right there.
- Moderator
- #130
Actually, I already explained to you that Israel is one of our interests. We are high on their list of their interests also.
Good night Coyote. I apologize if I got a little testy earlier.
If it were a public statement, I'd agree. But it was a comment made privately and I am sure many such comments fly around the diplomatic tables.
You gave me 3, which don't amount to much as far as the claim of "hating Israel" goes.
[/QUOTE]
It's consequences. Netanyahu stated that he would never support a Palestinian state. The US (and Israeli) positions have long been a 2-state solution. If Netanyahu decides he won't negotiate for it, then the only alternative is to turn to the UN and allow the process to continue there. That is not hatred.
Good night TK, it is very..very late for me as well, and I got testy too...have a good night
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
You fuckin' go to hell, asshole!
You got a lot of nerve talking about Obama's involvement in your elections, when you got your *******, piece of shit organization AIPAC, all up in ours. Why don't all you Israeli mother-fuckers get the **** out of MY GOVERNMENT?
- Moderator
- #134
Damn this insomnia.
Private or public doesn't matter. If that is your (not you personally) true attitude towards your fellow world leaders, just imagine how you would approach your relations with their respective nations...
You asked, I gave. Actions speak louder than words.
I don't blame him. The Palestinians are never going to agree to a deal. Never. But should the consequences be that America abandon Israel?
And how many years has it been? How long has that position been held? The solution has not materialized.
Congress will stop any such action on our end.
Funny, your definition of "hatred."
Private or public doesn't matter. If that is your (not you personally) true attitude towards your fellow world leaders, just imagine how you would approach your relations with their respective nations...
You asked, I gave. Actions speak louder than words.
I don't blame him. The Palestinians are never going to agree to a deal. Never. But should the consequences be that America abandon Israel?
And how many years has it been? How long has that position been held? The solution has not materialized.
Congress will stop any such action on our end.
Funny, your definition of "hatred."
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Try imagining how you would feel if greedy Jews stole the land your family had been living on for generations.
"The International Court of Justice,[4] the UN General Assembly[5] and the United Nations Security Council regards Israel as the 'Occupying Power'.[9]
"UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel’s occupation 'an affront to international law.'[10]
"The Israeli High Court of Justice has ruled that Israel holds the West Bank under 'belligerent occupation'.[11]
"According to Talia Sasson, the High Court of Justice in Israel, with a variety of different justices sitting, has repeatedly stated for more than four decades that Israel’s presence in the West Bank is in violation of international law.[12]"
Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
It does matter to me because I don't doubt for a minute that Netanyahu makes similar remarks in private setting about Obama.. Netanyahu recieved a political gift in that Obama's private remark became public and he certainly made hay from it. That's not just being cynical - a lot of stuff that was supposed to be "private" communication became embarresingly public in the Snowden dump. You do not have to "like" someone to be able to deal with them professionally - you just need to be able to establish a working relationship and some common goals - whether it's your colleagues in the senate or foreign leaders or diplomats. Sometimes it goes beyond that into real friendships, and while that is helpful it is not necessary. I think you have a very naive view of these things work in the real world (and perhaps I have an overly cynical one).
Actions speak louder than words indeed, let's review actions:
President Obama Advancing Israel s Security and Supporting Peace The White House
On July 27, 2012 the President signed the “United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012”, which strengthens Israel’s qualitative military edge. The bill expressed bipartisan Congressional support for Administration initiatives that deepen U.S. defense and security cooperation with Israel, to include providing Israel with financial and technological assistance to produce defensive systems to counter the threat of rockets and missiles; access to U.S. manufactured defense equipment and excess defense articles; and increased opportunities to train with U.S. military forces.
Despite tough fiscal times, the President fought for and secured full funding for Israel in FY 2012, including $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing – the largest amount of funding for Israel in U.S. history.
The President secured an additional $205 million in FY 2011 to help produce an Israeli-developed short-range rocket defense system called Iron Dome, which has helped defend Israeli communities against rocket attacks by successfully striking rockets as they are fired at Israeli civilians.
In July 2012, President Obama provided an additional $70 million to Israel to ensure that Israel could maximize its production of the Iron Dome system for 2012. Over the next three years, the Administration intends to request additional funding for Iron Dome, based on an annual assessment of Israeli security requirements against an evolving threat.
Israeli forces now benefit from regular joint exercises and training opportunities, access to advanced U.S. military hardware, emergency stockpiles, and favorable terms for the acquisition of equipment...
...The President personally intervened to help avert catastrophe when a violent mob stormed the Israeli Embassy in Cairo. Afterwards, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said of the President: “I requested his assistance at a decisive—I would even say fateful—moment. He said he would do everything possible, and this is what he did. He activated all of the United States’ means and influence — which are certainly considerable. I believe we owe him a special debt of gratitude.”
Yes, TK, actions certainly speak louder than words. Let's weigh these considerable actions against a private comment of "chickenshit", a reaction to a speech given to Congress in opposition to the White House, and his taking Netanyahu at his word when he claimed there would be no Palestinian state on his watch.Despite tough fiscal times, the President fought for and secured full funding for Israel in FY 2012, including $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing – the largest amount of funding for Israel in U.S. history.
The President secured an additional $205 million in FY 2011 to help produce an Israeli-developed short-range rocket defense system called Iron Dome, which has helped defend Israeli communities against rocket attacks by successfully striking rockets as they are fired at Israeli civilians.
In July 2012, President Obama provided an additional $70 million to Israel to ensure that Israel could maximize its production of the Iron Dome system for 2012. Over the next three years, the Administration intends to request additional funding for Iron Dome, based on an annual assessment of Israeli security requirements against an evolving threat.
Israeli forces now benefit from regular joint exercises and training opportunities, access to advanced U.S. military hardware, emergency stockpiles, and favorable terms for the acquisition of equipment...
...The President personally intervened to help avert catastrophe when a violent mob stormed the Israeli Embassy in Cairo. Afterwards, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said of the President: “I requested his assistance at a decisive—I would even say fateful—moment. He said he would do everything possible, and this is what he did. He activated all of the United States’ means and influence — which are certainly considerable. I believe we owe him a special debt of gratitude.”
The Palestinians still overwelmingly support a 2-state solution even though fewer believe it possible any more. Based on Netanyahu's stated words - and his actions (or lack there of) towards any real deal, I would venture to say that it's the Netanyahu regime that is never going to agree to a deal and never intended to in the first place. Sure - you're going to argue about pre-conditions, but don't forget Netanyahu's own pre-conditions, which amount to the same thing even though he labeled them "pre-conditions for peace".
Of course not. It takes two to tango and both sides have been stubborn. It doesn't help that the Palestinian government is so fractured or that Hamas refuses to acknowledge Israel right to exist or that Israel, in defiance of international law, is continuing it's settlement building and even openly admitted that it was deliberately closing Palestinians out in Jeruselum.
Congress may not be able to. Maybe it's about time some real pressure was put on Israel. Past presidents have been to chickenshit to do it.
Oh?
LordBrownTrout
Diamond Member
Instead, O got his head thumped again.
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #138
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
New Topics
-
-
Batteries during peak demand provide 43% of the power on California's grid
- Started by Old Rocks
- Replies: 0
-
Look at these anti-Semites protesting the War with Iran- Started by IM2
- Replies: 0
-
