Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Shusha]

You are either appallingly ignorant or exceedingly vile.

The Warsaw Ghetto saw 70% of the people exterminated. Another 25% were starved to death.

They were compelled to hand over thousands of people at a time including all the children under ten, the sick and elderly.

The comparison is sickening.

The comparison is also valid.

"How many times can a man turn his head,
pretending he just doesn't see?"
- Bob Dylan, Blowin' in the Wind​

Really? So you are telling me that 95% of the Gazan population is DEAD? Do you have a link for that?

 

[Billo_Really]

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. occupying the geographic you call Pal’istan are just others in a long line of poster childs for dysfunctional, Arab-Moslem societies.

You don't occupy your own land.

 

[Billo_Really]

Really? So you are telling me that 95% of the Gazan population is DEAD? Do you have a link for that?

According to a UN report, by 2020, 100% will be dead, or dying.

 

[Shusha]

Really? So you are telling me that 95% of the Gazan population is DEAD? Do you have a link for that?

According to a UN report, by 2020, 100% will be dead, or dying.

Not what the report states.

 

[Indeependent]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Pal’istan is not a state.

By your demented standards, any Link provided would be dismissed as Israeli Propaganda.

And I presume you still have never been to the region.

 

[Hollie]

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Winning a fair and democratic election isn't enough?

Winning once is enough. Arabs-Moslems voted in their own dictatorial oppressors who have since refused any “democratic” elections. Do you know that democracy is shirk in the view of Islamist sharia? No. You didn’t.

Words thrown carelessly around tend to lose any connection to their intrinsic meaning. There is nothing “democratic” about Islamism or retrograde Islamist sharia. Theocratic totalitarianism is the polar opposite of western liberal democracy. Notice they’re even spelled differently.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

It's stupid to ask someone to recognize you exist, after you already do.

It's stupid to ask someone to recognize you exist, after you already do.

It's dumber to deny you have the right to exist, after you already do.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I could have copied and commented on every article in the convention, but the two were sufficient to make the point.

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

(COMMENT)

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians have any basis to claim any territory now. What chances they might have had, they filtered-away over time. With the possible exception of the Gaza Strip (inside the wire) do the Arab Palestinians show any signs of a turn Government. It is more like the gangster style syndicate stranglehold → or → barrio gang territory. The Palestinian Flag is more of a clique moniker than the sign of a nation.

The Israelis have never extended governmental control over a Arab Palestinian sovereignty. It did engage both the Jordanians and the Egyptians. But, those disputes were resolved by standing treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. occupying the geographic you call Pal’istan are just others in a long line of poster childs for dysfunctional, Arab-Moslem societies.

You don't occupy your own land.

What land is owned by the competing Islamic terrorist franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. occupying the geographic you call Pal’istan?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore

I did not see the question.

Yawn.,,,, Again, Israel does not have the Right to exist.

Israeli talking point. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.

(Q)

WHAT "has ever proven that to be true"?

v/r
R

 

[Shusha]

Actually after reading this....
Violence Erupts Anew at Gaza-Israel Border in Third Week of Protests

I am not sure what Israel should do because the protesters are trying to tear down the fence. Israel does have a right to defend it's border.

This illustrates though how desperate things have become in Gaza and peopke will do desperate things when they see no options.

We agree.

But do we also agree that picking a war with Israel will not improve the situation and will indeed make it worse.

The solution is renunciation of violence, recognition and peace. Then infrastructure development, economic trade, tourism, etc etc

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

One of the two sides should hurry up and kill the other...I am tired of my tax dollars going toward this shit show.

with money or without money...

the show will continue until the palestinians stop their tantrum.

Zero ***** given...not my problem...stop taking my tax dollars to fund ANY of it.

zero ***** given....by you???? oh nooooooooooooo LOL!

scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's exactly how I see non jews who care about this shit show. It makes no sense to me. If you think it makes a bit of sense answer this question. If Israel and the Palestinians were to vaporize into non existence tomorrow would it drastically affect your life as non-Jew?
If you ARE a Jew...move your ass there to affect change. No one else really cares.

Gimme IsNtReals nuke codes and you'll see before the sun goes down how things could be.No Bolsheviks, no Mus-slime and the Jews will remain quiet and unseen...just like the old days.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

Funny that...

I have never condoned violence by Hamas... You have seen, over the time I have been here, my condemnation of violence by Hamas

Unlike your belief that it's ok for the IDF to shell or shoot unarmed Palestinians...

That, to me Shusha, is a significant difference. Your 'moderate' stance seems to have changed! Towing the Team Israel line now eh! Good for you!!!

And yet all you have done in THIS thread is ignore pal violence and make excuses for it. Go figure.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians have any basis to claim any territory now.

Aside from illegal foreign interference, what makes you think that?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Yawn.,,,, Again, Israel does not have the Right to exist.

Israeli talking point. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.

Hamas claims Israel must be totally destroyed wiped from existence and they promote support and actively engage in violence to accomplish that goal. And you defend them.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

With the possible exception of the Gaza Strip, which the Israel unilateral disengagement essentially abandon Gaza in 2005, I cannot seem to identify any territory in the Middle East Region over which the Arab Palestinians maintained territorial sovereignty (the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies).

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians have any basis to claim any territory now.

Aside from illegal foreign interference, what makes you think that?

(COMMENT)

Before you can cry that the Israelis interfered with a governing body to govern itself. (Remember: you have to have a government before someone can interfere with it. Just like you have sovereign territory before someone can interfere with it. Israel cannot interfere with nothing; we call that shadow boxing.) The territories, we call today, the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) were effectively controlled by the Israelis for twenty years before the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) made a bid for saying:

[/U]
Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and

Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:

The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.

The Arab Palestinians made a promise to be a peace-loving State committed to the principles of peaceful coexistence. Twenty years later, they are storming the gates of Israel. They are intentionally trying to provoke an incident that will escalate out of control. Israel has, "even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence. (Article 3 - Montevideo Convention)
Israel has right to respond to any "threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations." [Article 2(4), UN Charter]

(EPILOG)

I saw this while looking for something else → profligate behavior: debauchery; unrestrained revelry; noise, uproar, or disturbance made by revelers — riot in a sentence.

​

Most Respectfully,
R
But the Arab Palestinian
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

"even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence. (Article 3 - Montevideo Convention)

And Palestine had been a state since 1924, years before Israel attacked and encroached on their land.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence. (Article 3 - Montevideo Convention)

And Palestine had been a state since 1924, years before Israel attacked and encroached on their land.

And Palestine had been a state since 1924

Who were their elected officials?
How many were Muzzies?
Who printed their currency?
Was it fixed or floating rate?
Backed by gold?

 

[Coyote]

Folks - let's NOT derail into when/if/etc Palestine was/is/is not a state. Stick to the topic which is this protest and surrounding events.

 

[Coyote]

Actually after reading this....
Violence Erupts Anew at Gaza-Israel Border in Third Week of Protests

I am not sure what Israel should do because the protesters are trying to tear down the fence. Israel does have a right to defend it's border.

This illustrates though how desperate things have become in Gaza and peopke will do desperate things when they see no options.

We agree.

But do we also agree that picking a war with Israel will not improve the situation and will indeed make it worse.

The solution is renunciation of violence, recognition and peace. Then infrastructure development, economic trade, tourism, etc etc

But how does Gaza get THERE from here? At the moment - the people are under a form of collective punishment for an election - that is essentially the way I see how it started, and that has only made the situation worse for them, and perhaps ultimately Israel - not better.

Here is an interesting article from February:

IDF chief said to warn Gaza war likely if humanitarian crisis persists

IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot warned ministers during a cabinet meeting on Sunday that Israel could soon face another war with Gaza-based terror group Hamas, as a result of the deteriorating humanitarian and economic conditions in the coastal enclave, according to Israeli television reports.

In his briefing, Eisenkot pointed to the lack of electricity, drinkable water, and food in the Gaza Strip, according to Channel 10.

...In a security assessment handed recently to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the defense establishment reiterated its belief that Hamas is not interested in another conflict with Israel. However, an economic collapse would make such a scenario inevitable.

Hamas, which seized control of the Gaza Strip from the Palestinian Authority in 2007, has been under increasing pressure as the coastal enclave teeters on the verge of an economic and infrastructure collapse that UN Middle East peace envoy Nickolay Mladenov last week said was already “well beyond” a humanitarian crisis.​