Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Billo_Really]

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

 

[Billo_Really]

You are either appallingly ignorant or exceedingly vile.

The Warsaw Ghetto saw 70% of the people exterminated. Another 25% were starved to death.

They were compelled to hand over thousands of people at a time including all the children under ten, the sick and elderly.

The comparison is sickening.

The comparison is also valid.

"How many times can a man turn his head,
pretending he just doesn't see?"
- Bob Dylan, Blowin' in the Wind​

 

[RoccoR]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

 

[Humanity]

HAMAS want the Image of Israel to be a monsterous view of an oppressor

Well, to be fair....

Hamas doesn't have to try too hard does it!

Israel is quite capable of doing that all by themselves!

As was stated some posts ago by Team Israel... It's not clever videoing the murder of an unarmed Palestinian by the IDF, it's just MORE evidence that Israel is a monsterous oppressor! Talk about shooing yourself in the foot and WITHOUT the help of Hamas!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Is it, it thought the Warsaw Ghetto was supposed to be full of Jews...


Talking about ghetto:

Palestinians are the new Jews.

Palestinians are the new Jews.

Except Jews are successful and Palestinians are losers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

 

[USAF 2023]

HAMAS want the Image of Israel to be a monsterous view of an oppressor

Well, to be fair....

Hamas doesn't have to try too hard does it!

Israel is quite capable of doing that all by themselves!

As was stated some posts ago by Team Israel... It's not clever videoing the murder of an unarmed Palestinian by the IDF, it's just MORE evidence that Israel is a monsterous oppressor! Talk about shooing yourself in the foot and WITHOUT the help of Hamas!

Thread where Israel is shooting at “ innocent” Palestinians . No response from the Pro Pal Team

 

[Shusha]

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

Again. Israel did all those things. Still did not deter all of them. What next?

 

[USAF 2023]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Yawn.,,,, Again, Israel does not have the Right to exist.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Yawn.,,,, Again, Israel does not have the Right to exist.

Israeli talking point. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.

 

[Hollie]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Pal’istan is not a state.

 

[Hollie]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Yawn.,,,, Again, Israel does not have the Right to exist.

Israeli talking point. Nobody has ever proven that to be true.

Islamist talking point. It’s been proven true. Prove it hasn’t.

Roll on that for a bit.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Humanity, et al,

Certainly, the world has a number of view on this matter.

Israel's border, like any other border, can be defended --- that is outlined in the DOP. America has a fenced border and a Border Patrol and a Coast Guard to intercept and prevent border crosser and illegal immigration. I doubt that any reasonable which performs that same problem is going to REVOKE the Right of a nation.

HAMAS want the Image of Israel to be a monstrous view of an oppressor

Well, to be fair....

Hamas doesn't have to try too hard does it!

Israel is quite capable of doing that all by themselves!

As was stated some posts ago by Team Israel... It's not clever videoing the murder of an unarmed Palestinian by the IDF, it's just MORE evidence that Israel is a monstrous oppressor! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot and WITHOUT the help of Hamas!

(COMMENT)

Sovereignty is the issue. Governments are not going to say that an outside swarm of people have the legal right to swamp a border.

Being "unarmed" does not mean that lethal force cannot be used. "In most jurisdictions, the use of deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed. Firearms, bladed weapons, explosives, and vehicles are among those weapons the use of which is considered deadly force." {LINK}

Remember, HAMAS is claiming some Right to Return, but ask yourself how many of the protesters have actually lived in Israel and have Israeli citizenship under today's laws.

And you should further wonder how many are actually a "Refugee" --- and I mean a "REFUGEE" and not just someone allowed to register for UNRWA Service:

Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:

These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result ofthe 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted
children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. The Agency accepts new applications from
persons who wish to be registered as Palestine Refugees. Once they are registered with UNRWA, persons in this category are referred to as Registered Refugees or as Registered Palestine Refugees.​

How old would a real refugee be?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

Funny that...

I have never condoned violence by Hamas... You have seen, over the time I have been here, my condemnation of violence by Hamas

Unlike your belief that it's ok for the IDF to shell or shoot unarmed Palestinians...

That, to me Shusha, is a significant difference. Your 'moderate' stance seems to have changed! Towing the Team Israel line now eh! Good for you!!!

You have not once condemned violence in this thread. It would have been easy enough to do.

I have never said that shooting unarmed civilians is either morally or legally permissible. In fact, I clearly stated it is not more than once. I'll do it again. Shooting unarmed civilians who pose no threat or potential thtreat is abhorrent.

Here's the trouble: if you carry a weapon, you are not a civilian, you are a combatant. If you attempt to breach the fence, you are a combatant. If you do not obey multiple tiered layers of instruction and non-lethal attempts at dispersal, you are a combatant.

And if you as a government say to your people, break the fence, march on Jerusalem and tear the hearts out of Jews on the way, you are a terrorist organization. If you belong to the military wing of a terrorist organization you are a combatant.

 

[Hollie]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

The competing Islamic terrorist franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. Inc. occupying the geographic you call Pal’istan are just others in a long line of poster childs for dysfunctional, Arab-Moslem societies.

 

[Shusha]

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

Why should a protest be "put down?" Shouldn't the Palestinians have free speech?

Free speech does not extend to property destruction or crashing another country's border.

How peaceful would those protests be if they were not shot at as a first response. Israel initiated the violence.

Okay. This is just ridiculous. Israel has used a number of non-lethal tactics to keep Gazans away from the fence. Lethal methods are used only when other methods fail to achieve that goal.

 

[Billo_Really]

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Winning a fair and democratic election isn't enough?

 

[Shusha]

[

Wow really? First time I have heard of THAT!

When was that exactly?

Please, don't expect us to take your word for it... Some links would be very useful (preferably NOT from the IDF)

Do your own research. It's easy enough to find the photos.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

You are missing a couple articles.

ARTICLE 4

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

ARTICLE 8
No state has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of another.​

Palestine is the poster child of illegal external interference from world powers. This does not negate their rights as a state.

Pal’istan is not a state.

 

[Billo_Really]

"Billo_Really,

I'm not sure you have this right.

Hamas would be more credible if it acknowledged Israel’s right to exist.

Israel is actively trying to snuff out Hamas, yet Hamas must first recognize Israel's right to exist? I'm bothered by this for two reasons: 1) Israel exists. It's already there. Why acknowledge its there, when everyone can see it there? And 2) States don't have rights, people do.

The first step is for Israel to end the occupation.

Answer to #1:

ARTICLE 6

The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

ARTICLE 7
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​

Answer to #2: Convention on Rights and Duties of States signed at Montevideo December 26, 1933;

Most Respectfully.
R

It's stupid to ask someone to recognize you exist, after you already do.