Israeli doctors accused of collusion in torture

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Intra-Palestinian violations | B'Tselem

On 17 July 2012, the Hamas authorities in Gaza executed three Palestinians condemned to death by Gaza courts: Faiz Talab Nassar al-Wahidi, 55, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in December 2010, Hatem Hilmi Taleb Hirz, 21, from Juhor a-Dik, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011 and Na'el Jamal Kandil Dughmosh, 36, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011.

Since Hamas took over in Gaza, 33 people have been sentenced to death by its courts, and 13 people have been executed, including some who were sentenced to death before the Hamas takeover.

In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority courts have sentenced 71 people to death since the PA was established in 1995. Thus far, 13 of them have been executed.

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes | B'Tselem

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes

Published: 1 Jan 2011
In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip. In 2008, the violence abated but did not cease. Throughout the struggle, human rights violations committed by Palestinians against Palestinians increased, both in number and severity.

In 2007, at least 353 Palestinians were killed, 349 of them in the Strip, and thousands were injured, in the fighting between the factions. B'Tselem's figures indicate that at least 86 of the dead, 23 of them children, were passersby and were killed during street fighting or from gunfire during demonstrations. Some 300 of the dead were killed in the first half of the year, the vast majority of them in the Gaza Strip. 160 persons were killed in June alone. The casualties occurred during violent clashes between members of the Palestinian Authority's security apparatus, most of whom belong to Fatah and are loyal to Palestinian Authority president Mahmud Abbas, and Hamas armed militias, headed by the Hamas Executive Force, which was subordinated to the Ministry of the Interior, and the 'Iz a-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In 2008, 18 Palestinians were killed in the inter-Palestinian fighting, all of them in the Gaza Strip. 15 of the dead were killed in a single incident, in August, in an exchange of gunfire between police who had come to arrest members of the Hiles family.

Media reports and investigations by Palestinian and international human rights organizations indicate that in the weeks leading up to the Hamas takeover of the security apparatus in the Gaza Strip, the organization's armed militias abducted several senior members of the Palestinian Authority's security forces and executed them in cold blood, without trial. Other PA security officials who were abducted were tortured during interrogation. One of the severe practices that accompanied the abductions was shooting the victims in the legs as "punishment" before releasing them.After the Hamas takeover was completed, the street battles came to an almost complete halt. However, since then, the ruling Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, headed by deposed PA prime minister Isma'il Haniyeh, has imposed an oppressive regime against its critics, especially those identified with Fatah. For example, the Executive Force carries out arbitrary arrests daily. The prisoners are usually held for several days and then released with no charges filed against them. Amnesty International has taken many testimonies from Palestinians in the Gaza Strip who have been arrested in this manner, in which the victims reported being ill-treated and tortured.

The Executive Force has frequently broken into the homes of Palestinians in search for weapons in the hands of opposition members. In addition, this militia has used excessive force in dispersing several demonstrations in the Strip in the last month of 2007. The gravest use of excessive force occurred on 12 November 2007 in response to a Fatah demonstration in Gaza City commemorating the death of Yasser Arafat: seven Palestinians were killed, including a twelve-year-old boy. In days before and after the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, armed militias identified with Fatah, spearheaded by the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, carried out revenge attacks against persons and institutions identified with Hamas in the West Bank. Here, too, abductions and executions took place, as well as torching and shooting businesses and charitable institutions linked with Hamas. In late June 2007, these attacks diminished, only to pick up again sporadically in the following months, mostly in the Nablus District. In the weeks preceding and following the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, the PA's security forces, which are charged with law enforcement, refrained from taking any action against the militias in the West Bank. Among other things, they did not open investigations or bring to trial persons suspected of carrying out the attacks.

Hamas and Fatah hammered for human rights abuses against their own people - The National

The security forces of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas carried out torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions of residents of the Palestinian territories, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) said in its annual report released on Tuesday.
The targets of repression were "freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression", as well as "civil society organizations in general and human rights organizations in particular," the report said.
The ICHR's assessment, covering developments in 2010, did not directly take into account the reconciliation deal reached between Fatah and Hamas late last month. Yet in a portent of possible difficulties to come, it blames many of the abuses on the rivalry between the two Palestinian factions and their competing security agencies.
 
Really? Where do you get your info? Israel is a Western Style Democracy and a country of laws.

Israel arrests settlers suspected of W.Bank attacks | Reuters

Dec 3 (Reuters) - Israeli police arrested three Jewish settlers on Monday whom they suspect of arson and other attacks on Palestinian property in the occupied West Bank.

At a time of heightened diplomatic tension over claims to the land, the men were found carrying fuel and spikes shortly after a car was torched in a Palestinian village near Hebron. A police spokesman said they had appeared to be about to conduct a second attack in another village nearby when they were detained.

3 Israeli settlers arrested over attack on police car - CNN

Then, on June 7, there was an attempt to set fire to the mosque in the West Bank village of Al-Mughayyir, near the Alei Ayin outpost.

The words "Price Tag" and "Alei Ayin" were sprayed in Hebrew on the outer walls of the mosque.

"Price tag" attack is a term used by radical Israeli settlers to denote reprisal attacks against Palestinians in response to moves by the Israeli government to evacuate illegal West Bank outposts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?_r=0

Israel Arrests Settlers Fighting Freeze

EFRAT, West Bank — The Israeli police made their first arrests on Wednesday as part of the state’s effort to enforce a temporary construction freeze in Jewish settlements in the West Bank, briefly detaining the mayor of a settler council and at least two Jewish protesters. Both sides are trying hard to show how determined they are — the state in enforcing the moratorium, and the settlers in thwarting the state’s plans.

Now, show me again when Hamas did anything other than plan acts of terror and violence against Israelis.

We are not talking about Hamas. Typical deflection though.

I'm sure you can find examples where Israeli's have prosecuted Jewish attacks against Palestinians - but that doesn't change the over all picture: such attacks are seldom prosecuted, particularly without pressure from human rights groups. The system of justice is far from equal here..

Thanks to B'tselem more of them are but no where near the degree that Palestinian attacks against Israeli settlers are:
B’Tselem’s work in documenting and exposing human rights violations in the occupied territories has been so extensive that mere mention of B'Tselem vexes Israeli settlers and soldiers alike. Its consistent success in bringing hundreds of cases against settlers and soldiers to the Supreme Court has earned it Israeli ire and Palestinian praise.

Israeli Center Keeps Focus On Human Rights - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
True equality does not exist anywhere, even right here in the US. We are talking about there being laws against violence against Arab Muslims, and prosecuting such crimes, which exists in Israel.

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side (in fact, terror, murder, and violence upon Jews is the leadership's stated goal) and you weren't able to give me an example of it.

Instead you posted something from an Arab propaganda site dedicated to incite hatred against Israel, named Al-Monitor, with these kinds of articles:

Israeli Court Rejects Gaza War Crime Case Mohammed Suliman
Islamic Jihad to Run In Palestinian Elections Abeer Ayyoub
Exclusive: Gaza Salafists Take Fight to Syria Asmaa al-Ghoul
Israel Arresting Children To Prevent Third Intifada

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side...

Was it illegal for Americans to attack the British in 1812. Of course not. That would be absurd.
 

Cool. At least I understand what you are doing here.

If anger is directed at Israel -deflect.

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your keyboard keys,
Bow your head with great respect,
And deflect, deflect, deflect!


But, to answer your question - YES - I LIKE B'Tselem!

And, your lengthy deflection is exactly why. Though, I don't expect you to "get it".
 
True equality does not exist anywhere, even right here in the US. We are talking about there being laws against violence against Arab Muslims, and prosecuting such crimes, which exists in Israel.

On the other hand no such laws against violence against Jews exist on the Palestinian side (in fact it terror, murder, and violence upon Jews is the leadership's stated goal) and you weren't able to give me an example of it.

Instead you posted something from an Arab propaganda site dedicated to incite hatred against Israel, named Al-Monitor, with these kinds of articles:

Israeli Court Rejects Gaza War Crime Case Mohammed Suliman
Islamic Jihad to Run In Palestinian Elections Abeer Ayyoub
Exclusive: Gaza Salafists Take Fight to Syria Asmaa al-Ghoul
Israel Arresting Children To Prevent Third Intifada

The same information is available on the B'tselem site. Do you dispute it? Or is your only dispute the argument that Hamas is worse (which it is - but that has no bearing on this).
Hamas is the leadership of the Palestinians in Gaza, and the way that place works they ARE the govt. and the law of the land.

Sort of.

They are corrupt and innefficient but any governmetn in Gaza is also severly constrained by Israel.

I point you to the topic of this thread: "Israeli doctors accused of collusion in torture" of which I stated, in Israel there are laws against such acts and they will be prosecuted. I pointed you to examples of such prosecutions. Whether some Israeli liberals think "it's not enough" is irrelevant. Especially the other side, the Palestinians and their leadership are doing the exact opposite.

Suddenly you are interested in the topic of the thread?

If the Palestinians are worse than the Israeli's - does that excuse the Israeli's? After all, they are operating from a postiion of strength and a theoretical "high road" which they claim as the only democracy in the ME. Shouldn't they be held accountable?

Currently there is absolutely no law or enforcement of violence against Israelis, on the Palestinian side. Do you not see the ultimate hypocrisy when you hear cheering for violence against Israelis from one side of their mouth, while from the other they complain about "not enough is being done".

Hypocrisy abounds in the ME. And that includes Israel.

Don't you think all sides should be held accountable for their abuses rather than excused?
 
chatbox.gif
"Hypocrisy abounds in the ME. And that includes Israel. Don't you think all sides should be held accountable for their abuses rather than excused?"

All sides ? yeah, there's 2 sides. the Good side and the world-known-terrorist side.
small.gif


They [bad side] even rolled out the welcome mat for al queda. they live in the gaza strip...

you seem to be doing a great job of 'excusing' world-known terrorists for their 'terrorism.'

for_br10.gif
 
You like B'tselem?

Intra-Palestinian violations | B'Tselem

On 17 July 2012, the Hamas authorities in Gaza executed three Palestinians condemned to death by Gaza courts: Faiz Talab Nassar al-Wahidi, 55, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in December 2010, Hatem Hilmi Taleb Hirz, 21, from Juhor a-Dik, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011 and Na'el Jamal Kandil Dughmosh, 36, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011.

Since Hamas took over in Gaza, 33 people have been sentenced to death by its courts, and 13 people have been executed, including some who were sentenced to death before the Hamas takeover.

In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority courts have sentenced 71 people to death since the PA was established in 1995. Thus far, 13 of them have been executed.

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes | B'Tselem

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes

Published: 1 Jan 2011
In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip. In 2008, the violence abated but did not cease. Throughout the struggle, human rights violations committed by Palestinians against Palestinians increased, both in number and severity.

In 2007, at least 353 Palestinians were killed, 349 of them in the Strip, and thousands were injured, in the fighting between the factions. B'Tselem's figures indicate that at least 86 of the dead, 23 of them children, were passersby and were killed during street fighting or from gunfire during demonstrations. Some 300 of the dead were killed in the first half of the year, the vast majority of them in the Gaza Strip. 160 persons were killed in June alone. The casualties occurred during violent clashes between members of the Palestinian Authority's security apparatus, most of whom belong to Fatah and are loyal to Palestinian Authority president Mahmud Abbas, and Hamas armed militias, headed by the Hamas Executive Force, which was subordinated to the Ministry of the Interior, and the 'Iz a-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In 2008, 18 Palestinians were killed in the inter-Palestinian fighting, all of them in the Gaza Strip. 15 of the dead were killed in a single incident, in August, in an exchange of gunfire between police who had come to arrest members of the Hiles family.

Media reports and investigations by Palestinian and international human rights organizations indicate that in the weeks leading up to the Hamas takeover of the security apparatus in the Gaza Strip, the organization's armed militias abducted several senior members of the Palestinian Authority's security forces and executed them in cold blood, without trial. Other PA security officials who were abducted were tortured during interrogation. One of the severe practices that accompanied the abductions was shooting the victims in the legs as "punishment" before releasing them.After the Hamas takeover was completed, the street battles came to an almost complete halt. However, since then, the ruling Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, headed by deposed PA prime minister Isma'il Haniyeh, has imposed an oppressive regime against its critics, especially those identified with Fatah. For example, the Executive Force carries out arbitrary arrests daily. The prisoners are usually held for several days and then released with no charges filed against them. Amnesty International has taken many testimonies from Palestinians in the Gaza Strip who have been arrested in this manner, in which the victims reported being ill-treated and tortured.

The Executive Force has frequently broken into the homes of Palestinians in search for weapons in the hands of opposition members. In addition, this militia has used excessive force in dispersing several demonstrations in the Strip in the last month of 2007. The gravest use of excessive force occurred on 12 November 2007 in response to a Fatah demonstration in Gaza City commemorating the death of Yasser Arafat: seven Palestinians were killed, including a twelve-year-old boy. In days before and after the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, armed militias identified with Fatah, spearheaded by the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, carried out revenge attacks against persons and institutions identified with Hamas in the West Bank. Here, too, abductions and executions took place, as well as torching and shooting businesses and charitable institutions linked with Hamas. In late June 2007, these attacks diminished, only to pick up again sporadically in the following months, mostly in the Nablus District. In the weeks preceding and following the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, the PA's security forces, which are charged with law enforcement, refrained from taking any action against the militias in the West Bank. Among other things, they did not open investigations or bring to trial persons suspected of carrying out the attacks.

Hamas and Fatah hammered for human rights abuses against their own people - The National

The security forces of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas carried out torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions of residents of the Palestinian territories, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) said in its annual report released on Tuesday.
The targets of repression were "freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression", as well as "civil society organizations in general and human rights organizations in particular," the report said.
The ICHR's assessment, covering developments in 2010, did not directly take into account the reconciliation deal reached between Fatah and Hamas late last month. Yet in a portent of possible difficulties to come, it blames many of the abuses on the rivalry between the two Palestinian factions and their competing security agencies.

In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip.

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

Within the Bush administration, the Palestinian policy set off a furious debate. One of its critics is David Wurmser, the avowed neoconservative, who resigned as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser in July 2007, a month after the Gaza coup.

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.” He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,” Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
 
All sides ? yeah, there's 2 sides. the Good side and the world-known-terrorist side.
small.gif

Great supporting argument for an utterly retarded world view.

They [bad side] even rolled out the welcome mat for al queda. they live in the gaza strip...

Al Queda is in a lot of places. That doesn't mean they "rolled out the welcome mat".

you seem to be doing a great job of 'excusing' world-known terrorists for their 'terrorism.'

You seem to be doing a great job at spewing utterly moronic "gems" of wisdom in lieu of any real understanding of the issues.

I get that your debate is structured by pretty pictures, bright colors, bold and oversized fonts and shallow witticisms.

Spare us and actually consider adding content.
 
We are not talking about Hamas. Typical deflection though.

I'm sure you can find examples where Israeli's have prosecuted Jewish attacks against Palestinians - but that doesn't change the over all picture: such attacks are seldom prosecuted, particularly without pressure from human rights groups. The system of justice is far from equal here..

Thanks to B'tselem more of them are but no where near the degree that Palestinian attacks against Israeli settlers are:
True equality does not exist anywhere, even right here in the US. We are talking about there being laws against violence against Arab Muslims, and prosecuting such crimes, which exists in Israel.

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side (in fact, terror, murder, and violence upon Jews is the leadership's stated goal) and you weren't able to give me an example of it.

Instead you posted something from an Arab propaganda site dedicated to incite hatred against Israel, named Al-Monitor, with these kinds of articles:

Israeli Court Rejects Gaza War Crime Case Mohammed Suliman
Islamic Jihad to Run In Palestinian Elections Abeer Ayyoub
Exclusive: Gaza Salafists Take Fight to Syria Asmaa al-Ghoul
Israel Arresting Children To Prevent Third Intifada

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side...

Was it illegal for Americans to attack the British in 1812. Of course not. That would be absurd.
Don't remember the Americans attacking civilian British, or using their women and children as human shields, or targetting British kids, or sending American kids as "suicide bombers". No of course not. Only Islamic cowards are capable of this. Therefore making your comments totally irrelevant.
 

Cool. At least I understand what you are doing here.

If anger is directed at Israel -deflect.

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your keyboard keys,
Bow your head with great respect,
And deflect, deflect, deflect!


But, to answer your question - YES - I LIKE B'Tselem!

And, your lengthy deflection is exactly why. Though, I don't expect you to "get it".
Still don't get it. You went off topic again. The topic wasn't lists by B'tselem, it wasn't the lame comparison of Americans fighting the British to Palestinians.

Israeli doctors accused of torture? Okay, fine. The operative word is ACCUSED. If convicted, Israel will prosecute these scumbags to the fullest extent of the law. Because Israel is a democracy and country of laws. Unlike the Palestinian side, that are lawless Darwinian Islamists who actually encourage torture, murder, and terrorism against Israelis.

I will repeat this, maybe you will get it one day.
 
Last edited:
You like B'tselem?

Intra-Palestinian violations | B'Tselem

On 17 July 2012, the Hamas authorities in Gaza executed three Palestinians condemned to death by Gaza courts: Faiz Talab Nassar al-Wahidi, 55, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in December 2010, Hatem Hilmi Taleb Hirz, 21, from Juhor a-Dik, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011 and Na'el Jamal Kandil Dughmosh, 36, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011.

Since Hamas took over in Gaza, 33 people have been sentenced to death by its courts, and 13 people have been executed, including some who were sentenced to death before the Hamas takeover.

In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority courts have sentenced 71 people to death since the PA was established in 1995. Thus far, 13 of them have been executed.

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes | B'Tselem

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes

Published: 1 Jan 2011
In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip. In 2008, the violence abated but did not cease. Throughout the struggle, human rights violations committed by Palestinians against Palestinians increased, both in number and severity.

In 2007, at least 353 Palestinians were killed, 349 of them in the Strip, and thousands were injured, in the fighting between the factions. B'Tselem's figures indicate that at least 86 of the dead, 23 of them children, were passersby and were killed during street fighting or from gunfire during demonstrations. Some 300 of the dead were killed in the first half of the year, the vast majority of them in the Gaza Strip. 160 persons were killed in June alone. The casualties occurred during violent clashes between members of the Palestinian Authority's security apparatus, most of whom belong to Fatah and are loyal to Palestinian Authority president Mahmud Abbas, and Hamas armed militias, headed by the Hamas Executive Force, which was subordinated to the Ministry of the Interior, and the 'Iz a-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In 2008, 18 Palestinians were killed in the inter-Palestinian fighting, all of them in the Gaza Strip. 15 of the dead were killed in a single incident, in August, in an exchange of gunfire between police who had come to arrest members of the Hiles family.

Media reports and investigations by Palestinian and international human rights organizations indicate that in the weeks leading up to the Hamas takeover of the security apparatus in the Gaza Strip, the organization's armed militias abducted several senior members of the Palestinian Authority's security forces and executed them in cold blood, without trial. Other PA security officials who were abducted were tortured during interrogation. One of the severe practices that accompanied the abductions was shooting the victims in the legs as "punishment" before releasing them.After the Hamas takeover was completed, the street battles came to an almost complete halt. However, since then, the ruling Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, headed by deposed PA prime minister Isma'il Haniyeh, has imposed an oppressive regime against its critics, especially those identified with Fatah. For example, the Executive Force carries out arbitrary arrests daily. The prisoners are usually held for several days and then released with no charges filed against them. Amnesty International has taken many testimonies from Palestinians in the Gaza Strip who have been arrested in this manner, in which the victims reported being ill-treated and tortured.

The Executive Force has frequently broken into the homes of Palestinians in search for weapons in the hands of opposition members. In addition, this militia has used excessive force in dispersing several demonstrations in the Strip in the last month of 2007. The gravest use of excessive force occurred on 12 November 2007 in response to a Fatah demonstration in Gaza City commemorating the death of Yasser Arafat: seven Palestinians were killed, including a twelve-year-old boy. In days before and after the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, armed militias identified with Fatah, spearheaded by the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, carried out revenge attacks against persons and institutions identified with Hamas in the West Bank. Here, too, abductions and executions took place, as well as torching and shooting businesses and charitable institutions linked with Hamas. In late June 2007, these attacks diminished, only to pick up again sporadically in the following months, mostly in the Nablus District. In the weeks preceding and following the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, the PA's security forces, which are charged with law enforcement, refrained from taking any action against the militias in the West Bank. Among other things, they did not open investigations or bring to trial persons suspected of carrying out the attacks.

Hamas and Fatah hammered for human rights abuses against their own people - The National

The security forces of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas carried out torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions of residents of the Palestinian territories, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) said in its annual report released on Tuesday.
The targets of repression were "freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression", as well as "civil society organizations in general and human rights organizations in particular," the report said.
The ICHR's assessment, covering developments in 2010, did not directly take into account the reconciliation deal reached between Fatah and Hamas late last month. Yet in a portent of possible difficulties to come, it blames many of the abuses on the rivalry between the two Palestinian factions and their competing security agencies.

In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip.

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

Within the Bush administration, the Palestinian policy set off a furious debate. One of its critics is David Wurmser, the avowed neoconservative, who resigned as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser in July 2007, a month after the Gaza coup.

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.” He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,” Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
Vanity Fair? Which page was that? Before or after this Spring's latest women's underwear fashions? Or maybe it was in the beginning where they have all the paparazzi photos showing celebrities in uncompromising situations? Ha ha ha! Gawd this is unreal. The guy is quoting Vanity Fair!
 
The same information is available on the B'tselem site. Do you dispute it? Or is your only dispute the argument that Hamas is worse (which it is - but that has no bearing on this).
Hamas is the leadership of the Palestinians in Gaza, and the way that place works they ARE the govt. and the law of the land.

Sort of.

They are corrupt and innefficient but any governmetn in Gaza is also severly constrained by Israel.

I point you to the topic of this thread: "Israeli doctors accused of collusion in torture" of which I stated, in Israel there are laws against such acts and they will be prosecuted. I pointed you to examples of such prosecutions. Whether some Israeli liberals think "it's not enough" is irrelevant. Especially the other side, the Palestinians and their leadership are doing the exact opposite.

Suddenly you are interested in the topic of the thread?

If the Palestinians are worse than the Israeli's - does that excuse the Israeli's? After all, they are operating from a postiion of strength and a theoretical "high road" which they claim as the only democracy in the ME. Shouldn't they be held accountable?

Currently there is absolutely no law or enforcement of violence against Israelis, on the Palestinian side. Do you not see the ultimate hypocrisy when you hear cheering for violence against Israelis from one side of their mouth, while from the other they complain about "not enough is being done".

Hypocrisy abounds in the ME. And that includes Israel.

Don't you think all sides should be held accountable for their abuses rather than excused?
Yup, holding Israel again to different standards than the entire world. What a surprise. LOL
 
True equality does not exist anywhere, even right here in the US. We are talking about there being laws against violence against Arab Muslims, and prosecuting such crimes, which exists in Israel.

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side (in fact, terror, murder, and violence upon Jews is the leadership's stated goal) and you weren't able to give me an example of it.

Instead you posted something from an Arab propaganda site dedicated to incite hatred against Israel, named Al-Monitor, with these kinds of articles:

Israeli Court Rejects Gaza War Crime Case Mohammed Suliman
Islamic Jihad to Run In Palestinian Elections Abeer Ayyoub
Exclusive: Gaza Salafists Take Fight to Syria Asmaa al-Ghoul
Israel Arresting Children To Prevent Third Intifada

On the other hand no such laws against violence upon Jews exist on the Palestinian side...

Was it illegal for Americans to attack the British in 1812. Of course not. That would be absurd.
Don't remember the Americans attacking civilian British, or using their women and children as human shields, or targetting British kids, or sending American kids as "suicide bombers". No of course not. Only Islamic cowards are capable of this. Therefore making your comments totally irrelevant.

The British were not stupid enough to bring their women and children to war with them.
 
You like B'tselem?

Intra-Palestinian violations | B'Tselem

On 17 July 2012, the Hamas authorities in Gaza executed three Palestinians condemned to death by Gaza courts: Faiz Talab Nassar al-Wahidi, 55, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in December 2010, Hatem Hilmi Taleb Hirz, 21, from Juhor a-Dik, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011 and Na'el Jamal Kandil Dughmosh, 36, from Gaza city, convicted of murder and sentenced to death in April 2011.

Since Hamas took over in Gaza, 33 people have been sentenced to death by its courts, and 13 people have been executed, including some who were sentenced to death before the Hamas takeover.

In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority courts have sentenced 71 people to death since the PA was established in 1995. Thus far, 13 of them have been executed.

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes | B'Tselem

Severe human rights violations in inter-Palestinian clashes

Published: 1 Jan 2011
In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip. In 2008, the violence abated but did not cease. Throughout the struggle, human rights violations committed by Palestinians against Palestinians increased, both in number and severity.

In 2007, at least 353 Palestinians were killed, 349 of them in the Strip, and thousands were injured, in the fighting between the factions. B'Tselem's figures indicate that at least 86 of the dead, 23 of them children, were passersby and were killed during street fighting or from gunfire during demonstrations. Some 300 of the dead were killed in the first half of the year, the vast majority of them in the Gaza Strip. 160 persons were killed in June alone. The casualties occurred during violent clashes between members of the Palestinian Authority's security apparatus, most of whom belong to Fatah and are loyal to Palestinian Authority president Mahmud Abbas, and Hamas armed militias, headed by the Hamas Executive Force, which was subordinated to the Ministry of the Interior, and the 'Iz a-Din al-Qassam Brigades. In 2008, 18 Palestinians were killed in the inter-Palestinian fighting, all of them in the Gaza Strip. 15 of the dead were killed in a single incident, in August, in an exchange of gunfire between police who had come to arrest members of the Hiles family.

Media reports and investigations by Palestinian and international human rights organizations indicate that in the weeks leading up to the Hamas takeover of the security apparatus in the Gaza Strip, the organization's armed militias abducted several senior members of the Palestinian Authority's security forces and executed them in cold blood, without trial. Other PA security officials who were abducted were tortured during interrogation. One of the severe practices that accompanied the abductions was shooting the victims in the legs as "punishment" before releasing them.After the Hamas takeover was completed, the street battles came to an almost complete halt. However, since then, the ruling Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, headed by deposed PA prime minister Isma'il Haniyeh, has imposed an oppressive regime against its critics, especially those identified with Fatah. For example, the Executive Force carries out arbitrary arrests daily. The prisoners are usually held for several days and then released with no charges filed against them. Amnesty International has taken many testimonies from Palestinians in the Gaza Strip who have been arrested in this manner, in which the victims reported being ill-treated and tortured.

The Executive Force has frequently broken into the homes of Palestinians in search for weapons in the hands of opposition members. In addition, this militia has used excessive force in dispersing several demonstrations in the Strip in the last month of 2007. The gravest use of excessive force occurred on 12 November 2007 in response to a Fatah demonstration in Gaza City commemorating the death of Yasser Arafat: seven Palestinians were killed, including a twelve-year-old boy. In days before and after the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, armed militias identified with Fatah, spearheaded by the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, carried out revenge attacks against persons and institutions identified with Hamas in the West Bank. Here, too, abductions and executions took place, as well as torching and shooting businesses and charitable institutions linked with Hamas. In late June 2007, these attacks diminished, only to pick up again sporadically in the following months, mostly in the Nablus District. In the weeks preceding and following the Hamas takeover in the Gaza Strip, the PA's security forces, which are charged with law enforcement, refrained from taking any action against the militias in the West Bank. Among other things, they did not open investigations or bring to trial persons suspected of carrying out the attacks.

Hamas and Fatah hammered for human rights abuses against their own people - The National

The security forces of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas carried out torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions of residents of the Palestinian territories, the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) said in its annual report released on Tuesday.
The targets of repression were "freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression", as well as "civil society organizations in general and human rights organizations in particular," the report said.
The ICHR's assessment, covering developments in 2010, did not directly take into account the reconciliation deal reached between Fatah and Hamas late last month. Yet in a portent of possible difficulties to come, it blames many of the abuses on the rivalry between the two Palestinian factions and their competing security agencies.

In the period around 2007, the Palestinian movements Fatah and Hamas waged a violent struggle, primarily in the Gaza Strip. The fighting peaked in June 2007, when Hamas seized control of the Strip.

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

Within the Bush administration, the Palestinian policy set off a furious debate. One of its critics is David Wurmser, the avowed neoconservative, who resigned as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser in July 2007, a month after the Gaza coup.

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.” He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,” Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
Vanity Fair? Which page was that? Before or after this Spring's latest women's underwear fashions? Or maybe it was in the beginning where they have all the paparazzi photos showing celebrities in uncompromising situations? Ha ha ha! Gawd this is unreal. The guy is quoting Vanity Fair!

Oh you say that about everyone who does not suck up to Israel. How about a second opinion?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ai-Udti1M]On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat? - YouTube[/ame]
 
COYOTE
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“I get that your debate is structured by pretty pictures, bright colors, bold and oversized fonts and shallow witticisms”


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get ready then. . .


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"All sides ? yeah, there's 2 sides. the Good side and the world-known-terrorist side…”



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“Great supporting argument for an utterly retarded world view… You seem to be doing a great job at spewing utterly moronic "gems" of wisdom in lieu of any real understanding of the issues.”



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Look “kid” let’s get something straight right off the bat – you and I – from different worlds…


"retarded world view..."


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You bet, this IS my world view….and it “ain’t” gonna change….

As I see it, you have YOUR “retarded” world view.


“Al Queda is in a lot of places. That doesn't mean “they” rolled out the welcome mat."

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OMG. Talk about….'naïve. Holy #@!%. can't forget this one.....whew.


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Imagine, you just said this to me a second ago:

“spewing utterly moronic "gems" of wisdom in lieu of any real understanding of the issues”



Anyway…………………I guess we’re both “retarded.” To me, your view about al queda is “retarded…” (I never-ever use that word – “retard.” I don’t care for it…)



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“you seem to be doing a great job of 'excusing' world-known terrorists for their 'terrorism.”


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"I get that your debate is structured by pretty pictures, bright colors, bold and oversized fonts and shallow witticisms. Spare us and actually consider adding content…"


"structured by...."


(you’re boring). And yes, this is who I am. you know what Hamas is "structured" around ? death and destruction.

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Who’d you rather hang-out with kid ??


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who’s the ‘owner’ of this message board ? does he-she have a problem with my purdy pictures ? if he/she does…please ban me. i'd rather be kicked off permanently.

imagine, they put someone like this "coyote" kid in charge of monitoring posts and pulling them down, when she has ABSOLUTELY no understanding of AL Queda/Hamas).

"Al Queda is in a lot of places. That doesn't mean “they” rolled out the welcome mat."

a joke.

i was thinking of becoming a supporting ‘member’ but, if this place appoints a kid like you to be in charge of ME/US -- older, maturer adults – fahgetiT.…..I can’t give them my money………are they for real ?
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Ok, so we both think of each other as “morons and retards

we’re even.
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Was it illegal for Americans to attack the British in 1812. Of course not. That would be absurd.
Don't remember the Americans attacking civilian British, or using their women and children as human shields, or targetting British kids, or sending American kids as "suicide bombers". No of course not. Only Islamic cowards are capable of this. Therefore making your comments totally irrelevant.

The British were not stupid enough to bring their women and children to war with them.

Great answer tinny----so you are suggesting that it should be legal for
jews in Israel to slit the throats of arab/muslim babies who were STUPID
enough to remain in Israel in 1948 ----or on the west bank on 1967?

I remember that war well------lots of arabs FLED to Jordan---
but then came back-----they brought their kids into a WAR ZONE---
which, they themselves DECLARED TO BE A WAR ZONE-----
in fact JERUSALEM was almost "arab free" by June 5 1967---
but then they RETURNED with their luggage and their kids----
it was televised. I do recall a jounalist asking an arab mother
who was returning with her kids "are you afraid" ? She said
"of course not" (quite emphatically---she was happy and smiling)
She knew she was entering an ISRAEL CONTROLLED
east jerusalem sheeesh you want to see her kids dead?
you are sick
 
Don't remember the Americans attacking civilian British, or using their women and children as human shields, or targetting British kids, or sending American kids as "suicide bombers". No of course not. Only Islamic cowards are capable of this. Therefore making your comments totally irrelevant.

The British were not stupid enough to bring their women and children to war with them.

Great answer tinny----so you are suggesting that it should be legal for
jews in Israel to slit the throats of arab/muslim babies who were STUPID
enough to remain in Israel in 1948 ----or on the west bank on 1967?

I remember that war well------lots of arabs FLED to Jordan---
but then came back-----they brought their kids into a WAR ZONE---
which, they themselves DECLARED TO BE A WAR ZONE-----
in fact JERUSALEM was almost "arab free" by June 5 1967---
but then they RETURNED with their luggage and their kids----
it was televised. I do recall a jounalist asking an arab mother
who was returning with her kids "are you afraid" ? She said
"of course not" (quite emphatically---she was happy and smiling)
She knew she was entering an ISRAEL CONTROLLED
east jerusalem sheeesh you want to see her kids dead?
you are sick

Great answer tinny----so you are suggesting that it should be legal for
jews in Israel to slit the throats of arab/muslim babies who were STUPID
enough to remain in Israel in 1948 ----or on the west bank on 1967?

Of course not. Why should the Palestinians allow a bunch of criminals from Europe run them out of their country.
 
The British were not stupid enough to bring their women and children to war with them.

Great answer tinny----so you are suggesting that it should be legal for
jews in Israel to slit the throats of arab/muslim babies who were STUPID
enough to remain in Israel in 1948 ----or on the west bank on 1967?

I remember that war well------lots of arabs FLED to Jordan---
but then came back-----they brought their kids into a WAR ZONE---
which, they themselves DECLARED TO BE A WAR ZONE-----
in fact JERUSALEM was almost "arab free" by June 5 1967---
but then they RETURNED with their luggage and their kids----
it was televised. I do recall a jounalist asking an arab mother
who was returning with her kids "are you afraid" ? She said
"of course not" (quite emphatically---she was happy and smiling)
She knew she was entering an ISRAEL CONTROLLED
east jerusalem sheeesh you want to see her kids dead?

you are sick

Great answer tinny----so you are suggesting that it should be legal for
jews in Israel to slit the throats of arab/muslim babies who were STUPID

enough to remain in Israel in 1948 ----or on the west bank on 1967?

Of course not. Why should the Palestinians allow a bunch of criminals from Europe run them out of their country.

still playing the JEWS FROM EUROPE word game --nazi dog?

Just about every person I know who was in the fight in jerusalem against
the meccan shit-- ---were survivors of the STINK AND
FILTH OF ISLAMIC OPPRESSION----ie survivors
of the criminal dogs and bitches of your camp. THEY WERE VERY
HIGHLY MOTIVATED PEOPLE...... when I question events----they
often say "YOU DON'T KNOW THEM, WE DO........"

BTW criminal chunk of shit, tinny-----which whore taught you
that europeans are criminals? Those who are nazi dogs like
you are criminals----the non criminals either escaped or tried to
escape filth like you
 
My bad, I didn't realize Vanity Fair is a legitimate source for world news. I thought it was something women read while they are pooping. Tee hee.
 
This is excerpts from an article from The Lancet

Questions are being raised about the involvement of Israeli doctors in the suspected torture of a young Palestinian detainee who died in custody last month. Sharmila Devi reports. The death of a Palestinian prisoner in disputed circumstances in an Israeli prison has reignited a longstanding controversy over alleged physician complicity in torture as well as sparking renewed Palestinian anger over the estimated 4600 prisoners held by Israel. The Israeli Medical Association (IMA) denied that medical professionals were involved in torture or abuse and said that as far as it knew, torture was not approved or used by Israeli security forces or prisons. However, human-rights campaigners say Palestinian prisoners have long suffered from beatings, sleep deprivation, prolonged and painful handcuffing, humiliation, and medical neglect—considered torture under international standards. Arafat Jaradat, a 30-year-old petrol attendant with two children, was arrested on Feb 18 on suspicion of throwing stones and Molotov cocktails during a West Bank demonstration held last November against Israeli military action in the Gaza strip. Palestinians say his arrest, months after the demonstration, and his interrogation was part of a longstanding Israeli policy to coerce prisoners to become informants after their release. Palestinian leaders say some 800 000 Palestinians have been detained by Israeli forces since 1967, and Jaradat was the 203rd prisoner to die. He died after several days of interrogation by Israeli's Shin Bet internal security service on Feb 23 at Israel's Megiddo prison. An autopsy was held the next day at Israel's Institute of Forensic Medicine in the presence of Saber Aloul, the Palestinian Authority's chief pathologist, who said bruising on the body was evidence of torture....

Additional samples taken from the body were still undergoing microscopic and toxicology tests and results were not expected for several weeks. “The signs that appeared during the autopsy show clearly that he was subjected to severe torture that led immediately to his death”, Issa Qaraka, the Palestinian Minister of Prisoner Affairs said at a Ramallah press conference after being briefed by the Palestinian pathologist who attended the autopsy. Kamil Sabbagh, Jaradat's lawyer, told an Israeli military judge a couple of days before his client's death that he was being forced to sit for long periods during interrogation, had complained of back pain, and seemed terrified of returning to the Shin Bet detention centre where he was being held. The judge ordered an examination by a prison doctor. Derek Summerfield, an honorary senior lecturer at the University of London's Institute of Psychiatry and campaigner against what he called Israeli physicians’ violations of human rights, says he wanted to know what part doctors played in the circumstances of Jaradat's death. “By Israel's own admission, Jaradat was seen by Israeli doctors 2 days earlier and they found him in good health. The key medical ethical question is what were these doctors examining him for, if not to assess whether he could withstand torture”, he tells The Lancet. “This is precisely what the campaign regarding medical collusion with torture in Israel was launched for in 2009 and it continues to run.”

The IMA said in a statement: “The IMA vociferously objects to the claim that medical professionals are involved in torture or abuse, and we will continue to do everything possible with the tools available to us to inform doctors about their obligation to report and to conduct themselves appropriately.” The IMA and human rights organisations have called for responsibility for prisoners’ health to be taken away from the Israel Prison Service (IPS) and given to an outside body, such as health maintenance organisations (HMO) or the health ministry, which a year ago set up a standing committee to which doctors can report suspicions of torture. “It's true that every doctor has a conflict of interest between the patient and the system in the HMOs and also in the army”, Avinoam Reches, who heads the IMA's Ethics Board, told Ha'aretz newspaper. “But in the case of the IPS, the problem is severe because the treatment is given to people who have no freedom of choice whatsoever.”...

Israeli doctors accused of collusion in torture : The Lancet


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Sherri

A very soft article based on vaporous and baseless accusations. Show the proof, make the accusations and let the accused stand trial.
 
the autopsy has not yet been completed.---
there is no cause of death so far.

what was reported is that the patient
was found dead his cell and emergency
techs attempted to resuscitate the dead
body. -----not an easy task-----depending
on how long they guy is lying there---
rigor mortis may have rendered him STIFF---
in order to intubate him the neck would
have to be FORCIBLY extended ----
which could break bones and in order
to PUMP HIS HEART----they would have
to REALLY BANG on his chest. ------
some jerk saw "bruises" and decided it
meant "torture" ----sounds more like
a very futile and BANG UP JOB
of a CPR on a dead body to me.

the bottom line so far
no cause of death----yet.
 

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