Israeli Defense Minister HAMMERS obama

[Kondor3]

Not a 'homeland'...

Not a 'state'...

But a 'national home'...

National = nation...

Nation = state...

Close enough for government work...

Surely... you remember this part?

" ...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

And that's how come 1.8 million Arab Muslims live in Israel as Israeli citizens with full rights, and they wouldn't trade living there with living any of the neighboring Arab shitholes.

 

[georgephillip]

That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't get us any closer to answering the question: How many Arabs would not have been displaced, had the Arabs not attacked in 1948?

I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.

Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

 

[Kondor3]

I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.

Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

I don't understand. Is it your position that the Muslim-Arab Palestinians who remained behind in 1948 and did not flee their homes and who now live within the borders of Israel (non-West-Bank / non-Gaza) are NOT full-fledged Israeli citizens?

 

[aris2chat]

There was no way to prevent the attack on Israel by the arab state, so yes a peemptive strike was legal to shift the control away from the arabs in favor of the smaller Israeli forces. If the arabs had succeeded there would have been higher casualties and the likely massacre of innocent jews. As it was the actions of Israel saved lives by minimizing civilian losses of Israelis and palestinians.

Six Day War - 6 Days in June

I'm sorry, but the "pre-emptive strike" by Israel, doesn't pass the Caroline Test:
In addition, you cannot claim "pre-emptive self defense", when your the one provoking the war, as Israel did a little over a month BEFORE the 6-day war, when it invaded Syria on April 5, 1967. This was brought to light in an interview with Moshe Dayan in 1976...

Moshe Dayan, the Israeli defense minister at the time of the Six Day War, recounted in a 1976 interview that Israeli policy...between 1949 and 1967 was "to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us", thus changing "the lines of the ceasefire accord with military actions that were less than a war". Dayan related further that in the process Israel had provoked more than 80% of the border clashes with Syria in the lead-up to its April 7, 1967 invasion of Syria.

So you cannot provoke a war with Syria, then turn around and claim self defense by invading Egypt.

Yes it does as the threat was there and a declaration of war by Egypt had already been made.

What happened in Syria has no bearing on the preemptive strike on Egyptian forces that were massing to invade Israel.

You can if it has nothing to do with Egypt. No different to the US declaring war on Iraq and then invading Afgahnistan

Article 51 provides for the right of countries to engage in self-defence, including collective self-defence, against an armed attack.
“ Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

May 27 the UN was given 48 hours to leave. They could no longer maintain peace or security. The violated the agreement of '56

 

[toastman]

I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.

Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.

 

[georgephillip]

Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

I don't understand. Is it your position that the Muslim-Arab Palestinians who remained behind in 1948 and did not flee their homes and who now live within the borders of Israel (non-West-Bank / non-Gaza) are NOT full-fledged Israeli citizens?

In fact, current Arab residents of Israel are second class citizens, at best; however, I was referring to the legalities of obtaining "Israeli" citizenship:

"A group of Jews and Arabs are fighting in the Israeli courts to be recognized as 'Israelis,' a nationality currently denied them, in a case that officials fear may threaten the country’s self-declared status as a Jewish state."

Lawsuit challenges Israel's discriminatory citizenship definition | The Electronic Intifada

 

[georgephillip]

Then explain the large numbers of Muslim-Arab Palestinians who were allowed to remain on Israelis soil, and who, after some years of court and civil rights struggles, attained full Israeli citizenship, rather than being driven out.

Epic Fail.

You have a baseline of 700,000 refugees.

The question was put to you: How many of those 700,000 would not have ended-up as refugees, had the five Arab armies not attacked Israel in May 1948?

You have indicated zero.

Neither common sense nor your attempted deflection supports your claim.

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

 

[toastman]

What mythical "Israeli" citizenship are you imagining?

Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

 

[georgephillip]

Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

 

[Sally]

Arab Israeli citizens of Israel today, Georgie.

BTW, thanks for acknowledging earlier that it was the 5 Hostile Arab states that were responsible for many of the 700 000 Palestinian Arabs becoming refugees.

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

For the life of me, Toast, I don't know why this thread is going on and on. So much is happening these days in the Middle East, and there are posters who shed their fake crocodile tears for the "Palestinians" and will milk this thread to Kingdom Come if they had their way. I think many of us realize that they are using the "Palestinians" as their pawns in their fight against the Jews. Meanwhile, there have been tens of thousands killed and who really knows how many tens of thousands have been wounded, and some here just don't give a darn about what haplpened to these people because the Jews are not involved.

 

[Kondor3]

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

Ahhhhh... you've found your way into Tinny's Tainted Tall-Tales Room !!!

Got it.

A place where pro-Palestinians bloggers can...

* delude themselves that the State of Israel is illegal

* delude themselves that the State of Israel does not exist

* delude themselves that that 'nonexistent' State cannot have citizens

* delude themselves that the Palestinians have not made poor choices time-and-again

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors didn't screw it up in 1948

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors haven't abandoned them now

* delude themselves that the Palestinians still own or have sovereignty over all of the lands formerly comprising Old Palestine (pre-1948)

* delude themselves that the Palestinians are gonna get it all back someday soon

* delude themselves that Palestinians' land-holdings are not rapidly shrinking towards oblivion

* delude themselves that the Palestinians will not be expelled once those holdings have shrunk far enough

* delude themselves that they can hold off the Israelis if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the Ummah will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the rest of the world will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that any of that old Legal Shit from the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s is still operative in any meaningful and practical way in the Real World

* delude themselves that BDS will amount to anything more than a Flea Circus after 8 years of trying and getting nowhere close to becoming an effective embargo tool

* delude themselves that The West has forgotten multiple Acts of Terror by - or on behalf of - the Palestinians, outside of the boundaries of Old Palestine - against innocent Westerners

They ARE a delusional lot, but, for the sake of collegiality, we need to cut 'em a little slack once in a while...

 

[CMike]

It makes me feel warm inside that Israel's existence angers you so much.

BTW Georgie, how many Palestinians would NOT have become refugees after the 1948 war if 5 Arab countries didn't attack Israel??

Zero Palestinians would NOT have become refugees in 1948 if five Arab armies hadn't prevented the "chosen people" from stealing all the land between the River and the sea. I'm happy that fact gags bigots (like you, Toastie)

Bigot?? I think you should go learn what that means before you use it on other people.

You didn't answer my question bigot. If 5 Arab armies didn't attack Israel, how many of those refugees would not have become refugees??
Learn to read and comprehend, Nazi Shill

I know, I know.

None.

 

[CMike]

Yet another malignancy still festering in Palestine, and one that supersedes all of your parsing, is why the UN, at the behest of western corporations, was entitled to inflict a Jewish state upon a population that was two-thirds non-Jewish.

A mandate at the polls in Palestine of 1948 would NOT have produced a Jewish state but rather a Semitic Union that could well be a superpower in the 21st century.

All the crimes of both sides since that time stem from that imperial (UN) decision.

That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't get us any closer to answering the question: How many Arabs would not have been displaced, had the Arabs not attacked in 1948?

I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.

All the arab villages had to do was stay neutral and they would have been left alone.

When they participated in open hostilities against Israel by definition they were the enemy.

 

[toastman]

It was the five Arab armies that prevented 1.3 million Palestinian Arabs from becoming refugees in '48.
FWIW, you're welcome.

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

Nazi scumbag lowlife, you are just, as usual, blabbing about nothing.

And yes, Israel is a democratic state.

Can you spell: BDS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR NEARLY A DECADE AND HAVE ACCOMPLISHED LITTLE TO NOTHING.

BTW Georgie, have you heard the good news? Israel approved the building of 700 housing units in the West Bank.
What do you thing Georgie? Maybe Arafart the AIDS ridden terrorist scumbag should have accepted the offer given to him in 2000?
Whoops!!

 

[georgephillip]

That's nice, I'm sure, but it doesn't get us any closer to answering the question: How many Arabs would not have been displaced, had the Arabs not attacked in 1948?

I'm pretty sure the number you're seeking is zero, since the heroic Jews would have "transferred" all Arabs from Palestine in 1948 without the R2P provided by five Arab armies.

All the arab villages had to do was stay neutral and they would have been left alone.

When they participated in open hostilities against Israel by definition they were the enemy.

How do Arabs stay "neutral" when armed Jewish thugs are depopulating their villages?

"Around 400 Arab towns and villages were depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus. Some places were entirely destroyed and left uninhabitable;[1][2] others were left with a few hundred residents and were repopulated by Jewish immigrants, then renamed."

Some Zionists never concealed their intention to control all the land between the River and the sea, regardless of demographics. Their "enemy" was anyone unwilling to undergo transfer from the "promised land."

List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

Ahhhhh... you've found your way into Tinny's Tainted Tall-Tales Room !!!

Got it.

A place where pro-Palestinians bloggers can...

* delude themselves that the State of Israel is illegal

* delude themselves that the State of Israel does not exist

* delude themselves that that 'nonexistent' State cannot have citizens

* delude themselves that the Palestinians have not made poor choices time-and-again

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors didn't screw it up in 1948

* delude themselves that their Muslim-Arab neighbors haven't abandoned them now

* delude themselves that the Palestinians still own or have sovereignty over all of the lands formerly comprising Old Palestine (pre-1948)

* delude themselves that the Palestinians are gonna get it all back someday soon

* delude themselves that Palestinians' land-holdings are not rapidly shrinking towards oblivion

* delude themselves that the Palestinians will not be expelled once those holdings have shrunk far enough

* delude themselves that they can hold off the Israelis if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the Ummah will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that the rest of the world will come to their rescue if Expulsion Day ever comes

* delude themselves that any of that old Legal Shit from the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s is still operative in any meaningful and practical way in the Real World

* delude themselves that BDS will amount to anything more than a Flea Circus after 8 years of trying and getting nowhere close to becoming an effective embargo tool

* delude themselves that The West has forgotten multiple Acts of Terror by - or on behalf of - the Palestinians, outside of the boundaries of Old Palestine - against innocent Westerners

They ARE a delusional lot, but, for the sake of collegiality, we need to cut 'em a little slack once in a while...

"Disinvestment (or divestment) from South Africa was first advocated in the 1960s, in protest of South Africa's system of apartheid, but was not implemented on a significant scale until the mid-1980s.

"The disinvestment campaign, after being realized in federal legislation enacted in 1986 by the United States, is credited by some[2] as pressuring the South African Government to embark on negotiations ultimately leading to the dismantling of the Apartheid system."

Some of us are old enough to remember the gales of laughter coming from US bigots in 1968 over the student-lead South African BDS movement.

Give conservatives a little credit for always picking the wrong dog in the fight

Disinvestment from South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

Thats a load of crap. Israel declared independence on the land allotted to them by the partition plan. You are basically saying that they would have advanced and taken over the rest of the land, which is bullshit.
The Arabs said beforehand that if Israel becomes a reality, that they will drive the Jews to the sea.
BTW, when the war was over, Israel captured 50% of the land allotted to the Palestinian Arabs in the partition plan. That land is now inside the Green Line, which means it belongs to Israel now.
So, because of the Arab attack on Israel in 1948, the Palestinians lost a lot of land AND 700 000 of them became refugees.
Whoops!! Haha

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

Nazi scumbag lowlife, you are just, as usual, blabbing about nothing.

And yes, Israel is a democratic state.

Can you spell: BDS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR NEARLY A DECADE AND HAVE ACCOMPLISHED LITTLE TO NOTHING.

BTW Georgie, have you heard the good news? Israel approved the building of 700 housing units in the West Bank.
What do you thing Georgie? Maybe Arafart the AIDS ridden terrorist scumbag should have accepted the offer given to him in 2000?
Whoops!!

Big Huj, Bigot!

"I think I found the village of Huj at the weekend – but the road sign said 'Sederot'. The world knows it as Sderot, the Israeli city where the Hamas rockets fall. Even Barack Obama has been there. But Huj has a lot to do with this little story."

The Jewish state is swirling the same bowl as their good White friends in South Africa.

It took 26 years to FLUSH the White bigots; Zionism will ultimately surf the same sewer.

Good riddance.

Wiped from Israel's maps: The true inhabitants of Sderot - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

 

[Kondor3]

Declaring it thus does not render it thus, George.

Wake me up with your boycotting ambitions intersect with Reality.

 

[toastman]

Israel has never been "independent."
It lurched into existence through a non-democratic partition plan imposed by outsiders on Jew and Arab Palestinians alike. Now there are nearly equal numbers of both nations living between the River and the sea, and a majority of Jews still prefer a Jewish state over a democratic one.

Can you spell a-p-a-r-t-h-e-i-d or b-d-s?
(in Hebrew)

Nazi scumbag lowlife, you are just, as usual, blabbing about nothing.

And yes, Israel is a democratic state.

Can you spell: BDS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR NEARLY A DECADE AND HAVE ACCOMPLISHED LITTLE TO NOTHING.

BTW Georgie, have you heard the good news? Israel approved the building of 700 housing units in the West Bank.
What do you thing Georgie? Maybe Arafart the AIDS ridden terrorist scumbag should have accepted the offer given to him in 2000?
Whoops!!

Big Huj, Bigot!

"I think I found the village of Huj at the weekend – but the road sign said 'Sederot'. The world knows it as Sderot, the Israeli city where the Hamas rockets fall. Even Barack Obama has been there. But Huj has a lot to do with this little story."

The Jewish state is swirling the same bowl as their good White friends in South Africa.

It took 26 years to FLUSH the White bigots; Zionism will ultimately surf the same sewer.

Good riddance.

Wiped from Israel's maps: The true inhabitants of Sderot - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

That Palestinian city is no longer there, dreamer.
It's called Sderot now, get with reality :

And wake me up when 'Zionism will surf the same Sewer' as the white South Africans. We've bee. Hearing the same hateful drivel for 66 years now Georgie. After a while, it means less than nothing to us.

But of course, the mind set of the anti Semitic bigot Nazi scum, like yourself, is a mind set that's distant from reality. So I don't expect any rational posts from you Georgie boy. Maybe if you weren't so hateful Georgie, maybe....

 

[georgephillip]

Declaring it thus does not render it thus, George.

Wake me up with your boycotting ambitions intersect with Reality.

Those who snooze...

"A landmark victory was achieved today in South Africa for the international boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign of Israel. Setting a worldwide precedent for the academic boycott of Israel, the University of Johannesburg (UJ) has decided to sever ties with Israel’s Ben-Gurion University (BGU)."

University of Johannesburg ends Israeli links | BDSmovement.net