Israeli blockade of Gaza caused Oct 7th

You are not making sense. Was Israel the sovereign or not?
Why do you claim wrongly that Israel alone was the sovereign? - whilst claiming that you are supposedly aware about the history??
Because you support the Zionist lie and utopia, of being the sole sovereign over ALL of previous British Palestine 1948.

You are deliberately denying Israels part in the persecution of Palestinians and robbing their lands - in the territory then ceded by Egypt and Jordan to be Israel - aka the Green Line encompassing territory - and the fact that both Egypt and Jordan held the factual sovereignty over Gaza and the West-Bank till 1967.

Upon Egypt and Jordan rescinding their claim towards sovereign control of Gaza and the West-bank - Israel has never stopped trying to occupy and rob these lands as well, continuing to persecute and killing Palestinians - whilst chasing them of their lands.

And when as a consequence of Israels decades long Zionist policy, these Hamas fuck-ups attacked Israel - you keep whining and bitching together with your Zionist pals about Palestinians.
 
Why do you claim wrongly that Israel alone was the sovereign? - whilst claiming that you are supposedly aware about the history??
Name the other sovereigns that existed in 1948 who had a claim to that territory.
Because you support the Zionist lie and utopia, of being the sole sovereign over ALL of previous British Palestine 1948.
It is factually true.
- in the territory then ceded by Egypt and Jordan to be Israel
Ceded by Egypt and Jordan? When and how did Egypt and Jordan legally acquire the territory of the Mandate for Palestine?!
- aka the Green Line encompassing territory - and the fact that both Egypt and Jordan held the factual sovereignty over Gaza and the West-Bank till 1967.
They occupied territory. They never gained sovereignty over it.
Upon Egypt and Jordan rescinding their claim towards sovereign control of Gaza and the West-bank
They never had a legal claim to those territories.
 
Name the other sovereigns that existed in 1948 who had a claim to that territory.

It is factually true.

Ceded by Egypt and Jordan? When and how did Egypt and Jordan legally acquire the territory of the Mandate for Palestine?!

They occupied territory. They never gained sovereignty over it.

They never had a legal claim to those territories.
See - I had already stated:
Because you support the Zionist lie and utopia, of being the sole sovereign over ALL of previous British Palestine 1948.

Jews, like you simply ain't as smart as they like to be viewed upon. :smoke:
 
See - I had already stated:
Because you support the Zionist lie and utopia, of being the sole sovereign over ALL of previous British Palestine 1948.

Jews, like you simply ain't as smart as they like to be viewed upon. :smoke:
Name the other sovereign. Not hard if it is true.
 
Interesting how Sherlock Akbar cries that the Jews are committing genocide - and then admits he’d like to see all of Israel wiped out.

He must be shitting his pants knowing that America is getting a REAL president who won’t kowtow to Islamic terrorists - oops, Kamala said we shouldn’t use that phrase - and will support Israel fully as she kills off HAMAS SAVAGES.
He lifted his MUZZIE SKIRT on this thread.
 
Why do you claim wrongly that Israel alone was the sovereign? - whilst claiming that you are supposedly aware about the history??
Because you support the Zionist lie and utopia, of being the sole sovereign over ALL of previous British Palestine 1948.

You are deliberately denying Israels part in the persecution of Palestinians and robbing their lands - in the territory then ceded by Egypt and Jordan to be Israel - aka the Green Line encompassing territory - and the fact that both Egypt and Jordan held the factual sovereignty over Gaza and the West-Bank till 1967.

Upon Egypt and Jordan rescinding their claim towards sovereign control of Gaza and the West-bank - Israel has never stopped trying to occupy and rob these lands as well, continuing to persecute and killing Palestinians - whilst chasing them of their lands.

And when as a consequence of Israels decades long Zionist policy, these Hamas fuck-ups attacked Israel - you keep whining and bitching together with your Zionist pals about Palestinians.
 
Where? in Jordan?
That might be desirable, but as a practical matter it is not possible.

Similarly, the notion of self determination for the so called Palestinians has no practical application as long as they continue to refuse to live in peace with Israel.

For one thing, Hamas or similar organizations cannot be allowed to remain in power in Gaza no matter what the Palestinians want. In addition, no part of Israel, as defined by the Israeli government will ever be available to them no matter what the Palestinians decide. So clearly, there really isn't much left for the Palestinians to self determine.
 
Where? in Jordan?
Well, in point of fact, Arab Palestinians already have self-determination and sovereignty in Jordan. In my personal opinion, the division of the Mandate for Palestine into a state for the Arab "Palestinians" and a state for Jewish "Palestinians" (be clear I am discussing ethnicity and culture here, and NOT religion except as it relates to ethnicity and culture) should have resolved the issue.

The fact that Arabs want to continue to reduce the sovereign territory of the Jewish people is problematic. Still. I, like most Israelis, am willing to entertain the idea of even more sovereign territory for Arabs.

Just as I would entertain the idea of Arab "Palestinians" desiring self-determination in Jordan and splitting Jordan into a Hashemite Kingdom and a state of Palestine. Or a sovereign Quebec. Or a sovereign Catalonia. Or a sovereign Texas. In other words, concerning the tension, in international law, between territorial integrity and self-determination, I lean slightly towards self-determination. I apply this equally, in every state and situation. I lean towards separatist Quebec vs whole Canada (with a positive referendum); Catalonian independence; First Nation sovereignty.

That said, there comes a point when the erosion of sovereign territory can no longer be entertained or supported. So, if Arab "Palestinians" would like to create a sovereign state in Area A, Area B, significant portions of Area C, and Gaza, I can't think of a principled reason to argue against it. As long as there is a peace treaty which ends any further discussion about the matter.
 
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Well, in point of fact, Arab Palestinians already have self-determination and sovereignty in Jordan. In my personal opinion, the division of the Mandate for Palestine into a state for the Arab "Palestinians" and a state for Jewish "Palestinians" (be clear I am discussing ethnicity and culture here, and NOT religion except as it relates to ethnicity and culture) should have resolved the issue.

The fact that Arabs want to continue to reduce the sovereign territory of the Jewish people is problematic. Still. I, like most Israelis, am willing to entertain the idea of even more sovereign territory for Arabs.

Just as I would entertain the idea of Arab "Palestinians" desiring self-determination in Jordan and splitting Jordan into a Hashemite Kingdom and a state of Palestine. Or a sovereign Quebec. Or a sovereign Catalonia. Or a sovereign Texas. In other words, concerning the tension, in international law, between territorial integrity and self-determination, I lean slightly towards self-determination. I apply this equally, in every state and situation. I lean towards separatist Quebec vs whole Canada (with a positive referendum); Catalonian independence; First Nation sovereignty.

That said, there comes a point when the erosion of sovereign territory can no longer be entertained or supported. So, if Arab "Palestinians" would like to create a sovereign state in Area A, Area B, significant portions of Area C, and Gaza, I can't think of a principled reason to argue against it. As long as there is a peace treaty which ends any further discussion about the matter.
A peace treaty with whom? Israel did not make peeace with the Egyptians, it made peace with the Egyptian government which was strong enough and stable enough to enforce the terms of the treaty even if the Egyptian people opposed it. There is no such political entity among the Palestinians. There is no Palestinian leader who can credibly offer peace to Israel, so there can be no peace treaty with the "Palestinians."
 
Well, in point of fact, Arab Palestinians already have self-determination and sovereignty in Jordan. In my personal opinion, the division of the Mandate for Palestine into a state for the Arab "Palestinians" and a state for Jewish "Palestinians" (be clear I am discussing ethnicity and culture here, and NOT religion except as it relates to ethnicity and culture) should have resolved the issue.

The fact that Arabs want to continue to reduce the sovereign territory of the Jewish people is problematic. Still. I, like most Israelis, am willing to entertain the idea of even more sovereign territory for Arabs.

Just as I would entertain the idea of Arab "Palestinians" desiring self-determination in Jordan and splitting Jordan into a Hashemite Kingdom and a state of Palestine. Or a sovereign Quebec. Or a sovereign Catalonia. Or a sovereign Texas. In other words, concerning the tension, in international law, between territorial integrity and self-determination, I lean slightly towards self-determination. I apply this equally, in every state and situation. I lean towards separatist Quebec vs whole Canada (with a positive referendum); Catalonian independence; First Nation sovereignty.

That said, there comes a point when the erosion of sovereign territory can no longer be entertained or supported. So, if Arab "Palestinians" would like to create a sovereign state in Area A, Area B, significant portions of Area C, and Gaza, I can't think of a principled reason to argue against it. As long as there is a peace treaty which ends any further discussion about the matter.
And let’s not loose sight of the overall situation: Arabs have driven Jews out of all Muslim nations, where they once had thriving Jewish communities, and stealing their land and assets, to where they are all located on less than 1% of the land. And now, they want to chisel away at that until Israel is wiped out and the entire Middle East is Judenfree.

Still, the antisemites screech about Israel taking land (which of course it won when the Arabs attacked). Below for our ignorant readers is a map of the Middle East:
IMG_2379.jpeg
 
A peace treaty with whom? Israel did not make peeace with the Egyptians, it made peace with the Egyptian government which was strong enough and stable enough to enforce the terms of the treaty even if the Egyptian people opposed it. There is no such political entity among the Palestinians. There is no Palestinian leader who can credibly offer peace to Israel, so there can be no peace treaty with the "Palestinians."
I was referring to an imaginary future when trying to explain my general principles. I entirely agree with you.
 
Still, the antisemites screech about Israel taking land (which of course it won when the Arabs attacked).
I begin to despair when even the staunchest of Israel supporters have bought into this notion that Israel "won territory in war" and that this is what gives rise to her rights to the territory. This is a false notion that has been built over time. Israel has never "won" any territory in war to which she did not already have the strongest and only sovereign claim to.
 
I begin to despair when even the staunchest of Israel supporters have bought into this notion that Israel "won territory in war" and that this is what gives rise to her rights to the territory. This is a false notion that has been built over time. Israel has never "won" any territory in war to which she did not already have the strongest and only sovereign claim to.
That depends on how far back you want to go. When Egypt attacked Israel in ‘67, GAZA was under Egyptian control.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say “Israel won BACK her territory in 1967 after Jews had been kicked out decades earlier”?
 
Yes! Israel RECOVERED territory to which she has a sovereign claim.
Thanks for catching me on “my slip.” I fell right into it!

….which brings up another point of discussion:

Why are antisemites falsely accusing of “ethnic cleansing” of GAZA (when Israel is moving them to SAVE their lives), and yet nobody ever complains about TRUE “ethnic cleansing” when the Arabs expelled the Jews from GAZA?

More double standards, driven by antisemitism.
 
Billo_Really

Okay. I've located and read the Lancet study.

From October 7, 2023 to June 30, 2024, according to this study, 29, 271 unique decedents from trauma-related injury have been identified by comparing the MoH hospital lists; an online survey list; and social media.

This is very much in line with what other studies have shown (except for the trauma-related injury part as, to my knowledge, no records, including MoH records claim cause of death.)

Then, for some reason I am unable to fathom, they ADD another 34, 995 deaths that are "estimated deaths outside any list". That is, they estimate that there are 34, 995 deaths for which there are no records. I have yet to determine how they obtained that number. Near as I can tell they just arbitrarily added the extra deaths to inflate the numbers. (I am not a statistician, but I can't see in the study their rationale. If someone else can, I'd be grateful for an explanation).

Also, lest people complain I have no heart, yes, every civilian death, especially the deaths of children is terrible and tragic and every effort should be made to prevent those deaths. (I am very much less empathetic to Hamas members and any who celebrated, assisted, or contributed to the atrocities committed on October 7 and the 18 years of preparation leading up to it.)
How does it feel being the most evil country on the he planet?

 

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