Israel to pay students to defend it online

[Hoffstra]

So to recap Israelis indeed treating about 2 million Arabs with equality, and those who are upset are the ones that aren't Israelis, but Arabs who are paying for the consequence of joining with 5 Arab countries in attacking and trying to destroy Israel?

Now that would be a ridiculous assertion, that even if Israel gets attacked it still has get permission do what it wants for land it won in a defensive war. I bet the Arabs would have committed genocide on any Jew left in the land, had they been the victors.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.

 

[toastman]

There has never been an Arab Palestine. Israel became Jewish Palestine and Jordan became Arab Palestine...As planned by league of nations and administered by those who controlled the land. Arabs had no control or ownership of the land for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Palestine for more than 1,200 years, 300+ years more than the Jews.

Between 1949 and 1967, the United States considered the West Bank to be Arab Palestine.

Muslims NEVER ruled Palestine. Owning land and living on it & Ruling land are two different things. Try again Seal

 

[Hoffstra]

Muslims NEVER ruled Palestine. Owning land and living on it & Ruling land are two different things. Try again Seal

Sir, you can't be serious.

Muslims conquered Palestine in the 6th century, ruled it for four hundred years until the Crusaders conquered it. The Muslims then retook Palestine and ruled it until 1918.

This is fact.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Muslims NEVER ruled Palestine. Owning land and living on it & Ruling land are two different things. Try again Seal

Sir, you can't be serious.

Muslims conquered Palestine in the 6th century, ruled it for four hundred years until the Crusaders conquered it. The Muslims then retook Palestine and ruled it until 1918.

This is fact.

Israel has it now. Not gonna give it up. Ever. This is fact.

 

[toastman]

Muslims NEVER ruled Palestine. Owning land and living on it & Ruling land are two different things. Try again Seal

Sir, you can't be serious.

Muslims conquered Palestine in the 6th century, ruled it for four hundred years until the Crusaders conquered it. The Muslims then retook Palestine and ruled it until 1918.

This is fact.

Actually, before 1918, it was the Turk who ruled the land. It doesn't matter if they were Muslims, as religion is not the issue here. The fact is, Turks are not Arabs. Arabs never had control over the land.

 

[Hoffstra]

Actually, before 1918, it was the Turk who ruled the land. It doesn't matter if they were Muslims, as religion is not the issue here. The fact is, Turks are not Arabs. Arabs never had control over the land.

Wrong. The first Muslim conquests of Palestine were by the Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Show me where it says they need permission from Palestinians for those border agreements to be valid

States shall take resolute steps to eliminate the massive and flagrant violations of the human rights of peoples and human beings affected by situations such as those resulting from apartheid, all forms of racism and racial discrimination, colonialism, foreign domination and occupation, aggression, foreign interference and threats against national sovereignty, national unity and territorial integrity, threats of war and refusal to recognize the fundamental right of peoples to self-determination.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1770&context=ilj

 

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra, et al,

Well, there is a certain amount of truth here.

So to recap Israelis indeed treating about 2 million Arabs with equality, and those who are upset are the ones that aren't Israelis, but Arabs who are paying for the consequence of joining with 5 Arab countries in attacking and trying to destroy Israel?

Now that would be a ridiculous assertion, that even if Israel gets attacked it still has get permission do what it wants for land it won in a defensive war. I bet the Arabs would have committed genocide on any Jew left in the land, had they been the victors.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.

(COMMENT)

For most researchers, the reason the US and other countries see the West Bank and Gaza Strip as the "State of Palestine," is because those areas were:

• Identified in Part II, Section A, of GA Resolution 181(II) as the Arab State.
• And the Declaration of Independence for Palestine (Annex III, A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988), attached conditions of international legitimacy to GA Resolution 181(II) that outline the Arab State (Palestine) and "sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations."

As a general position, nearly everyone understood that customary law does not permit quasi-annexation by allowing its own civilian population into (by whatever mechanism) occupied territory for the purpose of establishing permanent residences. There has to be some special circumstances or overwhelming necessity, to justify the establishment of settlements. It was going to be an issue at some point and a matter of compensation and reparation.

(EPILOG SIDEBAR)

Israel may have struck-it rich. It has had several discoveries of natural gas in the Levant Basin in the last decade. About 30 of the 40 trillion cubic feet known now, of the gas discoveries to date are Israeli and could generate $300B in royalties on just the fractional portion of the findings that have been assessed; or more.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Show me where it says they need permission from Palestinians for those border agreements to be valid

States shall take resolute steps to eliminate the massive and flagrant violations of the human rights of peoples and human beings affected by situations such as those resulting from apartheid, all forms of racism and racial discrimination, colonialism, foreign domination and occupation, aggression, foreign interference and threats against national sovereignty, national unity and territorial integrity, threats of war and refusal to recognize the fundamental right of peoples to self-determination.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1770&context=ilj

Hmm interesting. Now, show me where it says that permission was needed from the Palestinian Arabs, who had no sovereignty over the land, in order for the Israelis to declare borders in 1979 and 1994. Borders that are internationally recognized

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a citation from a "School Textbook," not a treaty, not a Convention, not a UN Resolution. It is a school "essay" by a Jesuit Priest, advisor to Rome and law professor.

Show me where it says they need permission from Palestinians for those border agreements to be valid

States shall take resolute steps to eliminate the massive and flagrant violations of the human rights of peoples and human beings affected by situations such as those resulting from apartheid, all forms of racism and racial discrimination, colonialism, foreign domination and occupation, aggression, foreign interference and threats against national sovereignty, national unity and territorial integrity, threats of war and refusal to recognize the fundamental right of peoples to self-determination.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1770&context=ilj

(QUESTIONS)

• What basic question does this passage answer?
• What allegation against Israel does it challenge?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Sweet_Caroline, Billo_Really; et al,

This is all illusion and perception.

What is "illusion" and "perception"?

Could you be a little more succinct here?

The Arab Palestinian alienated themselves by adopting a hostile, depraved, and vicious profile.

After years of zionists treating them like garbage.

If you constantly treat someone like shit, don't act surprised when they stop being nice.

The Partition was a UN Plan, a passed UN Resolution, and a cooperative offer. And this was the Arab Palestinian answer.

Why do you keep bringing up resolution 181? It needed a Security Counsel vote to make it binding and that never happened. And from that point on, it became an un-enforcable document.

As for the resolution itself, it was not a fair solution for the arabs living in the area at the time. They owned 85% of the land (jews owned 7%), but the partition plan wanted to give over 50% of all of Palestine to the zionists.

In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel’s creation.

Yet, despite these facts, the U.N. partition recommendation had called for more than half of the land of Palestine to be given to the Zionists for their “Jewish State”. The truth is that no Arab could be reasonably expected to accept such an unjust proposal.

That "Plan" was shot down and is no longer relevent.

When we talk of "civil and religious" rights --- what are we talking about? Rights for the Arab Palestinian and death for the Jewish Immigrant.

We're not talking about "religious" rights at all. Religion has nothing to do with this. We're not really talking about "civil" rights, either. We're talking about "inalienable" rights. You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

I'm an American, but I can tell you, that is a deal breaker for anyone with half a brain and a survival instinct. Most Americans, and indeed, most of the world, don't understand the attitude the Arab Palestinian had then, and in 1967, had in 1973, had in 1988, and still has today. It has not changed. And the policy of the Palestinian needs to be firmly understood if we are to clearly understand the cause and situation that exists today.

What about the policy of the zionists?

Don't we need to understand what their intentions were during the migration into Palestine?

Because it has a lot to do with Palestinian attitudes towards Israeli's.

The Way of the Palestinian Then and now!

THEN:

The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.​

“The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out – man women and child."​

.

Because it wasn't fair and should not have been enforced.

NOW:

Article 13 HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Article 9 Palestine National Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.​

That is not what is now. Hamas leaders have said on more than one occasion, they're willing to accept a two-state solution, but Israel won't go for it.

The Arab Palestinian has stated its case; having not denied it --- and still promotes it today. Once the world understands the scope and true nature of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, they will understand the need for containment; and that corrective action is not a denial of Humanitarian Rights or Civil Liberties, but the necessary action taken to quarantine a culture that has no other foundation than that built on violence. They are self-proclaimed "Jihadist" of the First Order! and Greatest Magnitude! - They neither challenge this nor deny it.

They are hostile, because Israel has occupied their land for almost half a century and are still treating them like garbage.

Christ, Palestinian's can't even go fishing without getting shot at!

Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
.............................................................................UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
​

I agree with that.

Do you excuse the jewish terrorist massacre at Deir Yassan?

 

[Billo_Really]

And just how has Israel reneged on that?

By establishing racist, apartheid polices on land ownership and labour. By driving out over 700,000 arabs through the use of jewish terrorist groups like Irgun. And basically treating the arabs like they less human than they are.

 

[Saigon]

Toastman -

Now, show me where it says that permission was needed from the Palestinian Arabs, who had no sovereignty over the land, in order for the Israelis to declare borders in 1979 and 1994. Borders that are internationally recognized

Who recognises Israel's 'ownership' of the West Bank or Gaza?

 

[Billo_Really]

Exactly. Even though the UN Resolution to divide the land was illegal (as the San Remo Mandate was protected), the arabs still refused the land and even to this very day preach hate. That is what Israel has to deal with on a daily basis from the Palestinians' government spokespeople, the Palestinian media, random attacks on Jews (including today) every day, etc.

Israel does the best it can under the circumstances, and still cooperates with the Palestinian Authority even though the PA don't officially recognize Israel's right to the land.

End the occupation and you'll end the hate.

BTW, I don't see any of your posts preaching love for the Pals, so maybe you should deal with your own hatred of them first, before talking about their hatred of you?

 

[Billo_Really]

Who recognises Israel's 'ownership' of the West Bank or Gaza?

No one. Not a single country on the planet does. It's been that way for almost 50 years and it's not going to change.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

The Arab Palestinian alienated themselves by adopting a hostile, depraved, and vicious profile.

After years of zionists treating them like garbage.

If you constantly treat someone like shit, don't act surprised when they stop being nice.

(COMMENT)

This is the kind of excuse you expect from a child. This is a defense of "they were bad because they were abused as a child."

Nonsense.

Why do you keep bringing up resolution 181? It needed a Security Counsel vote to make it binding and that never happened. And from that point on, it became an un-enforcable document.

(COMMENT)

You keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. GA RES 181(II) was never supposed to be a binding resolution (a command). It was a resolution that made an offer and could be accepted or rejected. The Jewish Agency Accepted and the Arab High Committee rejected. The first implementation meeting (UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION) set up by the Security Council A/AC.21/7 29 January 1948 recorded the acceptance and rejection.

The Security Council, after "having received and considered the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations," favorably recommended the membership to the GA.

It was later that the PLO used it as the instrument for establishing the State of Palestine. And, again, a decade later, acknowledged it again.

As for the resolution itself, it was not a fair solution for the arabs living in the area at the time. They owned 85% of the land (jews owned 7%), but the partition plan wanted to give over 50% of all of Palestine to the zionists.

That "Plan" was shot down and is no longer relevent.

(COMMENT)

Believe what you want. When I talked of an Illusion, this is exactly the kind of logic to which I was referring. You don't even acknowledge your own leadership.

We're not talking about "religious" rights at all. Religion has nothing to do with this. We're not really talking about "civil" rights, either. We're talking about "inalienable" rights. You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

(COMMENT)

But you can be invited to immigrate and acquire the same rights.

What about the policy of the zionists?

Don't we need to understand what their intentions were during the migration into Palestine?

(COMMENT)

The intention was simple. Everyone knew them. To establish a Jewish National Home.

Because it has a lot to do with Palestinian attitudes towards Israeli's. Because it wasn't fair and should not have been enforced.
That is not what is now. Hamas leaders have said on more than one occasion, they're willing to accept a two-state solution, but Israel won't go for it.

(COMMENT)

In what official forum have they said that?

You better read your own web site:

Meshaal’s remarks came during an exclusive interview with the American Foreign Policy magazine, through which he stressed on Hamas’s rejection of the two-state solution and criticized the recent visit of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

SOURCE: http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/meshaal-renews-rejection-of-a-two-state-solution/

HAMAS and FATAH say a lot of things, then turn around and say something different. It is not uncommon with Palestinians. They reject, GA/RES/181, then the accept it, then they use it, and now you reject it. It is a familiar pattern.

The Arab Palestinian has stated its case; having not denied it --- and still promotes it today. Once the world understands the scope and true nature of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, they will understand the need for containment; and that corrective action is not a denial of Humanitarian Rights or Civil Liberties, but the necessary action taken to quarantine a culture that has no other foundation than that built on violence. They are self-proclaimed "Jihadist" of the First Order! and Greatest Magnitude! - They neither challenge this nor deny it.

They are hostile, because Israel has occupied their land for almost half a century and are still treating them like garbage.

Christ, Palestinian's can't even go fishing without getting shot at!

(COMMENT)

If you are Palestinian, and you even look like you're going into the Levant Basin, you're in trouble. HAMAS is, and has been, an asymmetric fighting activity that openly promotes Jihad. Why would anyone risk letting them into the Basin with all that investment there? That would be an unacceptable risk. It would be like opening the doors of a bank to thieves.

Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
.............................................................................UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
​

I agree with that.

Do you excuse the jewish terrorist massacre at Deir Yassan?

(COMMENT)

Of course not; not any more than I could condone the Hebron massacre (1929), perpetrated by the Arabs. Neither party has clean hands.

Name.........................Date.........................Responsible Party........................Death Toll
Jerusalem Riots..........December 2, 1947.......Arab residents.............62 Jewish, 32 Arab
Gush Etzion Convoy....December 11, 1947............Arab...............................10
Beth Nabala...............December 14, 1947.......Arab Legion..........................14
al-Tira.......................December 12, 1947..........Irgun.................................13
al-Tantura.................May 22-23, 1948.............Haganah
al-Khisas...................December 18, 1947.........Haganah.............................10
Haifa Oil Refinery......December 30, 1947......Arab workers..........................39
Balad al-Shaykh.........December 31, 1947.........Haganah.............................60
Jaffa ........................January 4, 1948................Jewish...............................30
Haifa........................January 16, 1948..............Jewish................................31
Lamed Hey...............January 16, 1948................Arab.................................35
Jerusalem Bombing...February 1, 1948................Arab .................................6+
Ben Yehuda
Street Bombing.........February 11, 1948..............Arab (with British assistance) 52
Sa'sa'.......................February 14, 1948............Jewish...............................11
Jewish Agency..........March 11, 1948...........Arab irregulars........................12
al-Husayniyya...........March 13, 1948................Jewish...............................30​

And so on and so on!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really; et al,

There is a slight of hand trick here.

Who recognises Israel's 'ownership' of the West Bank or Gaza?

No one. Not a single country on the planet does. It's been that way for almost 50 years and it's not going to change.

(COMMENT)

You see, no one recognizes Israeli ownership, because Israel never claimed to own it and really doesn't want it.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

There has never been an Arab Palestine. Israel became Jewish Palestine and Jordan became Arab Palestine...As planned by league of nations and administered by those who controlled the land. Arabs had no control or ownership of the land for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Palestine for more than 1,200 years, 300+ years more than the Jews.

Between 1949 and 1967, the United States considered the West Bank to be Arab Palestine.

There was no such thing as an Arab Palestinian. The area was part of the Ottoman Empire for 800 years, and then under the control of the British the collapse of the Ottomans Turks.

Last I checked, Turks and Arabs were very different people.

The name "West Bank" is a also new invention for Arabs, just as the label "Palestinian" is. It was after 3000 years, in 1948 that invading Arabs changed correct name of the region, the name Judaea and Samaria of Ancient Israel, to this made up name "West Bank". And 1967 was approximately the time when invading Arabs adopted the name "Palestinian", the name only referred to Jews of the region.

And why didn't Arabs establish this mythical Palestine when they controlled the "West Bank" from 1948 to 1967? Because no such thing existed.

Here's how it was supposed to be:

 

[Roudy]

So to recap Israelis indeed treating about 2 million Arabs with equality, and those who are upset are the ones that aren't Israelis, but Arabs who are paying for the consequence of joining with 5 Arab countries in attacking and trying to destroy Israel?

Now that would be a ridiculous assertion, that even if Israel gets attacked it still has get permission do what it wants for land it won in a defensive war. I bet the Arabs would have committed genocide on any Jew left in the land, had they been the victors.

Israelis cannot cite the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate as justification and vindication for their settlement operations in the West Bank while at the same time disregarding the articles of those same agreemants that condition Jewish settlement in all of Palestine upon equal and fair treatment to the non-Jewish population.

They can't have their cake AND eat it too.

Non of the made up "interpretations" of said declarations say Israel has to get attacked by groups of Arab countries intending to destroy it, and then play nice if it wins in that war. And that goes for any country.

 

[Billo_Really]

There is a slight of hand trick here.

You see, no one recognizes Israeli ownership, because Israel never claimed to own it and really doesn't want it.

I hear ya!

It's common practice for people to build homes on land they don't want.