Israel destroys el-Wafa hospital as staff evacuates all patients

[Hossfly]

Hossie------Israel will not instill gasoline or -----gases into the tunnels-----
doing so is an islamo Nazi technique

The US Army has been putting gasoline and aviation fuel in tunnels since the start of WWII. That was hammered out in discussions since 1942 and I did it and saw it done during Vietnam. I can understand though Israel's refusal to do it. Too bad there's not enough water to do the job.

 

[irosie91]

Hossie------Israel will not instill gasoline or -----gases into the tunnels-----
doing so is an islamo Nazi technique

The US Army has been putting gasoline and aviation fuel in tunnels since the start of WWII. That was hammered out in discussions since 1942 and I did it and saw it done during Vietnam. I can understand though Israel's refusal to do it. Too bad there's not enough water to do the job.

I mentioned the idea to my hubby-----(well---I have to admit it seemed like a good idea to me) ---
HE WAS HORRIFIED --------well----I kinda took it back and he seemed to feel better---but
I am not sure he will ever get over the fact that I suggested it

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Oh, for crying-out-loud! It was "completely debunked" by who? The Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR), which clearly aligns with anything anti-Israeli. Or the Richard Falk, the former United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), who blamed the Boston Bombing on Israel?

In the last century, there have been two codifications of International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that are the most significant, and (arguably) the most important, and clearly the most cited in human history; The Geneva Conventions and the San Remo Manual (Armed Conflicts at Sea).

Oddly enough, the San Remo Manual is the applicable IHL relative to the Blockade on the Gaza Strip.

Will you stop pushing that bullshit Palmer Report? It has been completely debunked.

That commission was not even convened to determine the legality of the blockade.

Jesus Christ, that dog don't hunt!

For a blockade to be legal, you have to be in a state of war with a sovereign nation. Since Israel does not recognize Gaza as a sovereign nation, it cannot impose a legal blockade on the population.

And anyone who thinks starving Gazan children has anything to do with Israeli national security, is a total scumbag.

(COMMENT)

Your assumption is that:

• "For a blockade to be legal, you have to be in a state of war with a sovereign nation."

This is entirely irrelevant to the legality of the Blockade. For you convenience, I have copied the entire section on IHL relative to blockades.

NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;​

Section II : Methods of warfare

BLOCKADE

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.

98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

99. A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

100. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States.

101. The cessation, temporary lifting, re-establishment, extension or other alteration of a blockade must be declared and notified as in paragraphs 93 and 94.

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.​

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and

(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.​

104. The blockading belligerent shall allow the passage of medical supplies for the civilian population or for the wounded and sick members of armed forces, subject to the right to prescribe technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted.

SOURCE: ICRC 31-12-1995 Article, International Review of the Red Cross, No. 309

Without regard to the legal status and recognition of the Gaza Strip, the blockade is equally enforced. There is no requirement that Israel recognize any political condition with Gaza. The blockade is instituted against a "belligerent" in what everyone recognizes as an armed conflict.

A "State of War" is not a requirement. UN General Assembly has already reaffirmed, in Resolution 10/15 (2004), that: “all States have the right and the duty to take actions in conformity with international law and international humanitarian law to counter deadly acts of violence against their civilian population in order to protect the lives of their citizens.”

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[flacaltenn]

What is wrong with you, troll? Are you that retarded?

I'm not backtracking anything. I've consistently said Israel never left Gaza because they continue to maintain effective control of the entire area. A physical presence is not needed to satisfy the definition of an occupation. Yes, Gaza is still under occupation, so why don't you take your troll ass and go to hell!

You are one of the biggest liars at this website!

This is not true at all.. That "Israel never left Gaza".. They left it COMPLETELY with no blockade after negotiating with the Palestinian Authority.. What happened is that the Palestinians went to war with EACH OTHER for control of the District and HAMAS won.

All of the arrangements went down the tubes after that..

That's not entirely true. Israel maintained control of airspace, coastline waters off Gaza and border crossings with the exception of the land border with Egypt and reserved the right to make military incursions when necessary. In addition, Israel continues to control and provide Israel will continue to provide Gaza with water, communication, electricity, and sewage networks.

They did not even have control over their own airspace or coastline and important resources could (and were) cut for any reason, by Israel.

What you see below were the conditions accompanying the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza in 2005.. Clearly it is also what the Gazans elected to jeopardize by allowing Hamas to win election there and SPLIT the Palestinian leadership.. The agreement was with a RESPONSIBLE representation and US pressured Egypt into complying with THEIR responsibilities outlined in the agreement. For a year, it looked like a normalization process would be underway.. The Israeli military FORCIBLY EJECTED their settlers from Gaza. And all the signs were for sincere intent..

Agreement on Movement and Access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA) is an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), signed on 15 November 2005. The treaty aimed improvement of Palestinian freedom of movement and economic activity within the Palestinian Occupied Territories, and open the Gaza–Egypt border.


Content of the Agreement[edit]

The Agreement on Movement and Access determined that the Rafah Crossing between Gaza and Egypt would be opened as soon as possible under control of the PA, and under supervision of a third party (being the European Union). Goods were also permitted transit at the Karni crossing.

A "Safe Passage" would be established between Gaza and West Bank.

The number of "obstacles to movement" in the West Bank would be reduced to the maximum extent possible to be completed by 31 December 2005.

The construction of a seaport in Gaza could commence.

The parties would continue discussions on the establishment of an airport.


The Agreed Principles for Rafah Crossing provided details concerning the Rafah crossing.

Only people with Palestinian ID, or foreign nationals, by exception, in certain categories, subject to Israeli oversight, were permitted to cross in and out. The PA should notify the Israeli authorities 48 hours in advance of the crossing of a person in the excepted categories.

Rafah would be used for export of goods to Egypt, subject to rigid control. Imports should be cleared by PA customs officials at Kerem Shalom under the supervision of Israeli customs agents.[1]

Following the Hamas takeover -- MANY Arab countries (as well as Western) refused to recognize the Palestinian leadership split and "truce". Egypt could no longer keep the Rafah crossing open and UNILATERALLY acted to JOIN the blockade of Gaza.

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2006 Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election, triggering the 2006–07 economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a Palestinian authority national unity government headed by Ismail Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in the course of the Battle of Gaza,[4] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with its own.[5] Following the takeover, Egypt and Israel largely sealed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled and was no longer providing security on the Palestinian side.[6]

Israel maintains that the blockade is necessary to limit Palestinian rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip on its cities and to prevent Hamas from obtaining other weapons. Prior to its 2011 opening of the Rafah crossing, Egypt maintained that it could not fully open its side of the border since completely opening the border would represent Egyptian recognition of the Hamas control of Gaza, undermine the legitimacy of the Palestinian National Authority and consecrate the split between Gaza and the West Bank.

The process was KILLED by the in-fighting and entrance of Hamas into a leadership position . Not just for Israel, but for most of concerned peace-makers of the world.. PEACE --- wasn't even given the time to germinate...

 

[Roudy]

Billo_Really, et al,

Oh, for crying-out-loud! It was "completely debunked" by who? The Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR), which clearly aligns with anything anti-Israeli. Or the Richard Falk, the former United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), who blamed the Boston Bombing on Israel?

In the last century, there have been two codifications of International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that are the most significant, and (arguably) the most important, and clearly the most cited in human history; The Geneva Conventions and the San Remo Manual (Armed Conflicts at Sea).

Oddly enough, the San Remo Manual is the applicable IHL relative to the Blockade on the Gaza Strip.

Will you stop pushing that bullshit Palmer Report? It has been completely debunked.

That commission was not even convened to determine the legality of the blockade.

Jesus Christ, that dog don't hunt!

For a blockade to be legal, you have to be in a state of war with a sovereign nation. Since Israel does not recognize Gaza as a sovereign nation, it cannot impose a legal blockade on the population.

And anyone who thinks starving Gazan children has anything to do with Israeli national security, is a total scumbag.

(COMMENT)

Your assumption is that:

• "For a blockade to be legal, you have to be in a state of war with a sovereign nation."

This is entirely irrelevant to the legality of the Blockade. For you convenience, I have copied the entire section on IHL relative to blockades.

NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;​

Section II : Methods of warfare

BLOCKADE

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.

98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

99. A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

100. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States.

101. The cessation, temporary lifting, re-establishment, extension or other alteration of a blockade must be declared and notified as in paragraphs 93 and 94.

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.​

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and

(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.​

104. The blockading belligerent shall allow the passage of medical supplies for the civilian population or for the wounded and sick members of armed forces, subject to the right to prescribe technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted.

SOURCE: ICRC 31-12-1995 Article, International Review of the Red Cross, No. 309

Without regard to the legal status and recognition of the Gaza Strip, the blockade is equally enforced. There is no requirement that Israel recognize any political condition with Gaza. The blockade is instituted against a "belligerent" in what everyone recognizes as an armed conflict.

A "State of War" is not a requirement. UN General Assembly has already reaffirmed, in Resolution 10/15 (2004), that: “all States have the right and the duty to take actions in conformity with international law and international humanitarian law to counter deadly acts of violence against their civilian population in order to protect the lives of their citizens.”

Most Respectfully,
R

Bill Goat cares very little for facts. It's always the same crap fed to him by his Moooslem "friends".

 

[Ropey]

Facts on the ground show that 'The Palestinians" have made use of the recent "years of calm" to detour concrete shipments from housing development in order to facilitate the building of large terrorist infrastructure ie. tunnels into Israel.

'The Palestinians have taken funding intended for supporting the people to obtain weapons in order to attack Israel.

They place their civilians where these weapons are and they place their young children when the launch sites are maintained in order to bring the bodies out and create media attention over their own responsibilities for these deaths.

 

[Ibentoken]

The Jew haters expect civilization to reject civilization and embrace a death cult.

 

[Ropey]

Many of these tunnels are big enough to drive trucks through.

When will the people in Gaza realize that Hamas cares nothing about them?

They only care about killing Jews.

My only question is a wonderment. I wonder if the people of Gaza, who elected Hamas, have the same care as Hamas...

...that's my wonder.

 

[Coyote]

which is legal.

Gaza is not not Troy, Masada or Constantinople. It has supply crossings from Israel and Sinai. Shortages are more from hamas unwilling to pay for supplies than from crossing closures.
If there is a shortage of building material, blame the tunnels and rockets.

I'm not talking about "legality" - I'm talking about the accuracy of a claim. Israel did not leave Gaza completely.

And nothing I said has anything to do with shortages - I was pointing out a fact which is Israel did not leave Gaza completely - they left controlling some pretty important things.

from outside. Israel has controlled the air and water space since 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty
Israel supplied 1/3 of the electric power till gaza tried to take out the Israeli power station and cut their own power supply instead. Other commodities as with everyone else in the world, have to be bought and paid for. Israel has continued to deliver humanitarian items but hamas has to buy gas, water and other items from the PA who then buys them from Israel or in emergencies others buy the items for gaza like fuel when hamas won't fork over the money and intentionally causing blackouts and rolling schedules of a few hours a day.
Gaza raise fish in hatcheries, grow many of their own vegetables, raise goats sheep and cows for milk and meat, more than a third of the population rely on UN for their needs. Malls are well stocked as are most grocery stores. Basic medical supplies get delivered, some elective or alternative meds are not included and have to be bought separately. Israel still treats gazans in Israel hospitals on a permit basis issued by the PA or emergency basis.
Items that can be used in weapons are still restricted, and building items for the UN are cleared but too often hijacked by hamas.
Egypt has been more strict with their crossing because of attacks in sinai and smuggling through tunnels.

The point remains that they did not leave Gaza completely. Their control of the Gaza coastline has had a detrimental effect on the Gaza fishing industry for example. The point is you can not claim that they left Gaza completely when they have control over some pretty important items.

 

[Coyote]

Many of these tunnels are big enough to drive trucks through.

When will the people in Gaza realize that Hamas cares nothing about them?

They only care about killing Jews.

My only question is a wonderment. I wonder if the people of Gaza, who elected Hamas, have the same care as Hamas...

...that's my wonder.

The people of Gaza elected Hamas because Hamas "promised" less corruption and better management than Fatah.

 

[Ropey]

This is why it's a wonder for me and why I don't place outright condemnation.

If Hamas is removed as a controlling power and Fatah gains control of these regions as well, then we shall see if the softer 'approach' of Abu Mazen will allow for a true and verifiable long term hudna.

Israel understands that Western style peace is not part of the plan. Westerners? Not so much.

I'm not even sure that Hama's terrorist infrastructure can be dealt with and this is with more Palestinians giviing information as to the only bomb shelters in Gaza.

Where the Hamas hide with their children while the other Gazan's children are placed at launching sites.

 

[Indeependent]

Many of these tunnels are big enough to drive trucks through.

When will the people in Gaza realize that Hamas cares nothing about them?

They only care about killing Jews.

My only question is a wonderment. I wonder if the people of Gaza, who elected Hamas, have the same care as Hamas...

...that's my wonder.

The people of Gaza elected Hamas because Hamas "promised" less corruption and better management than Fatah.

AND underground shopping malls!

 

[MHunterB]

Israel is already gassing the people in Gaza, so sure they would gas tunnels, no doubt about that.

Why do you think that you can just make up any lie about the IDF and get away with it?

 

[Indeependent]

Israel is already gassing the people in Gaza, so sure they would gas tunnels, no doubt about that.

Why do you think that you can just make up any lie about the IDF and get away with it?

Well..., yeah!

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israel is already gassing the people in Gaza, so sure they would gas tunnels, no doubt about that.

Why do you think that you can just make up any lie about the IDF and get away with it?

Medical sources: Israel using unfamiliar toxic gas against Palestinians in Gaza

Friday, 18 July 2014 12:24

The on-going military operation, dubbed by Israel 'Operation Protective Edge', has so far resulted in the killing of at least 249 Palestinians and the wounding of 1860 others, according to Palestinian Health Ministry records

Dozens of Palestinians, including children, suffered from suffocation on Thursday due to inhaling what is being described as a "strange toxic gas" launched by the Israeli army during its ground incursion in the north and south of the Gaza Strip, Anadolu news agency reported.

Anadolu*quoted Dr. Ashraf Al-Qidra, a spokesperson for the Health Ministry in Gaza, as saying that: "Dozens of Palestinians, including children, arrived at hospitals suffering from suffocation after inhaling a white poisonous gas fired by the Israeli army in the northern Gaza Strip and in the Shawkah neighbourhood near Rafah, to the south."

Al-Qidra urged the Palestinians in Gaza "not to panic when they inhale the strange gas, to protect themselves using tarpaulin coats or nylon clothes and to cover the doors, windows and vents with a moist cloth to prevent air from leaking inside."

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/n...miliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

 

[Roudy]

Putting words into my mouth I did not say says nothing about absolutely anything.

The Blockade is unlawful, deal with that fact.

And Israel occupies Gaza.

Blockading a terrorist group that shoots rockets into civilian cities and is dedicated to commit mass murder is illegal? Speaking of illegal, then what are Hamas' actions considered, you friggin idiot.

Being 'Hamas' is illegal.

We'll technically speaking the Ham of the Ass is labeled as a terrorist organization by the US, Europe, Japan, Canada and most civilized nations.

 

[MHunterB]

There isn't a single report of any such thing from any credible source. I recall all too well how certain posters were oh-so-eager to repeat previous hateful unsubstantiated allegations against Israel - and refused to acknowledge after those allegations were thoroughly debunked.

So NO, I do not accept such allegations.

 

[Billo_Really]

This is why it's a wonder for me and why I don't place outright condemnation.

If Hamas is removed as a controlling power and Fatah gains control of these regions as well, then we shall see if the softer 'approach' of Abu Mazen will allow for a true and verifiable long term hudna.

That's because Fatah is Israel's ***** and one of the most corrupt governments in that region.

There's nothing wrong with Hamas. There is something wrong with all the slander Israel reaps on them.

The problem is Israel, not Hamas.

 

[Kondor3]

The IDF, using gas?

Not bloody likely.

More like a fry-pan greased with olive oil, with the burner left on 'high' too long.

 

[Ropey]

This is why it's a wonder for me and why I don't place outright condemnation.

If Hamas is removed as a controlling power and Fatah gains control of these regions as well, then we shall see if the softer 'approach' of Abu Mazen will allow for a true and verifiable long term hudna.

That's because Fatah is Israel's ***** and one of the most corrupt governments in that region.

There's nothing wrong with Hamas. There is something wrong with all the slander Israel reaps on them.

The problem is Israel, not Hamas.

Hamas 'is a problem, we will solve it'

Hamas 'is a problem, we will solve it' - video - Channel 4 News

It's not hard to see why the Hamas save their own children and use the voters children for martyrdom.