Isn't America better than this?

midcan5

liberal / progressive
Jun 4, 2007
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America
The Torture Tape Fingering Bush As a War Criminal by Andrew Sullivan

"A former FBI agent who was involved in the interrogation, Daniel Coleman, said last week that the CIA knew Al-Qaeda’s leaders all believed Zubaydah “was crazy, and they knew he was always on the damn phone. You think they’re going to tell him anything?” Even though preliminary, legal interrogation gave the US good - though not unique - information, the CIA still asked for and received permission to torture him in pursuit of more data and leads.

The Washington Post reported that “current and former officials” said the torture lasted weeks and even, according to some, months, and that the techniques included hypothermia, long periods of standing, sleep deprivation and multiple sessions of waterboarding. All these “alternative procedures”, as Bush described them, are illegal under US law and the Geneva conventions. They are, in fact, war crimes. And they were once all treated by the US as war crimes when they were perpetrated by the Nazis. Waterboarding has been found to be a form of torture in various American legal cases.

And that is where the story becomes interesting. The Bush administration denies any illegality at all, insists it does not “torture” but refuses to say whether it believes waterboarding is torture or not. But hundreds of hours of videotape were recorded of Zubaydah’s incarceration and torture. That evidence would settle the dispute over the extremely serious question of whether the president of the United States authorized war crimes.

And now we have found out that all the tapes have been destroyed."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/24/5985/
 
The Torture Tape Fingering Bush As a War Criminal by Andrew Sullivan

"A former FBI agent who was involved in the interrogation, Daniel Coleman, said last week that the CIA knew Al-Qaeda’s leaders all believed Zubaydah “was crazy, and they knew he was always on the damn phone. You think they’re going to tell him anything?” Even though preliminary, legal interrogation gave the US good - though not unique - information, the CIA still asked for and received permission to torture him in pursuit of more data and leads.

The Washington Post reported that “current and former officials” said the torture lasted weeks and even, according to some, months, and that the techniques included hypothermia, long periods of standing, sleep deprivation and multiple sessions of waterboarding. All these “alternative procedures”, as Bush described them, are illegal under US law and the Geneva conventions. They are, in fact, war crimes. And they were once all treated by the US as war crimes when they were perpetrated by the Nazis. Waterboarding has been found to be a form of torture in various American legal cases.

And that is where the story becomes interesting. The Bush administration denies any illegality at all, insists it does not “torture” but refuses to say whether it believes waterboarding is torture or not. But hundreds of hours of videotape were recorded of Zubaydah’s incarceration and torture. That evidence would settle the dispute over the extremely serious question of whether the president of the United States authorized war crimes.

And now we have found out that all the tapes have been destroyed."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/24/5985/

You left-wingbots just never give up the chant, do you?
 
you really cant handle the truth can you ? its shameful really... you want to debate the circumstances surrounding tonkin ? or are you CHICKEN !!!!!

Chicken?:rofl:

No, I don't want to debate the circumstances surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin Incident in a thread about torture. Neither does anyone else. HINT-FUCKING-HINT, moron.
 
You left-wingbots just never give up the chant, do you?

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Wendell Phillips

"But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government." Andrew Jackson

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
 
Truth is now and has been for some time a "conspiracy" issue with the neocons.


apparently I am not allowed to comment on the issue of torture or it will be cut and pasted and retitled....for on the island of the monkeys some truths where never spoken so I said nothing.......

Learn to live with it.
 
It has already been determined that you know nothing more about the Gulf Of Tonkin or the Viet Nam War other than heresay, gunny.


Chicken?:rofl:

No, I don't want to debate the circumstances surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin Incident in a thread about torture. Neither does anyone else. HINT-FUCKING-HINT, moron.

Just why do you continue to project yourself as some kind of authority?
 
The Torture Tape Fingering Bush As a War Criminal by Andrew Sullivan

"A former FBI agent who was involved in the interrogation, Daniel Coleman, said last week that the CIA knew Al-Qaeda’s leaders all believed Zubaydah “was crazy, and they knew he was always on the damn phone. You think they’re going to tell him anything?” Even though preliminary, legal interrogation gave the US good - though not unique - information, the CIA still asked for and received permission to torture him in pursuit of more data and leads.

The Washington Post reported that “current and former officials” said the torture lasted weeks and even, according to some, months, and that the techniques included hypothermia, long periods of standing, sleep deprivation and multiple sessions of waterboarding. All these “alternative procedures”, as Bush described them, are illegal under US law and the Geneva conventions. They are, in fact, war crimes. And they were once all treated by the US as war crimes when they were perpetrated by the Nazis. Waterboarding has been found to be a form of torture in various American legal cases.

And that is where the story becomes interesting. The Bush administration denies any illegality at all, insists it does not “torture” but refuses to say whether it believes waterboarding is torture or not. But hundreds of hours of videotape were recorded of Zubaydah’s incarceration and torture. That evidence would settle the dispute over the extremely serious question of whether the president of the United States authorized war crimes.

And now we have found out that all the tapes have been destroyed."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/24/5985/

Whats your point???... These dirtbags have no rights under the geneva convention or under American law...

Torture them till they talk... Then kill em for fun... Better yet let the families of the victims of 9-11 do it!
 
Whats your point???... These dirtbags have no rights under the geneva convention or under American law...

Torture them till they talk... Then kill em for fun... Better yet let the families of the victims of 9-11 do it!

considering that article VI of our constitution states that all treaties signed become the law of the land, our enemies detained by us do indeed have rights under our laws in accordance with the "United Nations CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" which we signed under during the Reagan administration. Either follow the laws of the land, or piss on the constitution. take your pick.
 
Our Veterans overwhelmingly reject torture as a means of information extrapolation.


considering that article VI of our constitution states that all treaties signed become the law of the land, our enemies detained by us do indeed have rights under our laws in accordance with the "United Nations CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" which we signed under during the Reagan administration. Either follow the laws of the land, or piss on the constitution. take your pick.

Do you expect any of this "no draft" population to truly understand the pitfalls and personal connection to the equation?
 
its OK gunny I understand you where conditioned to think in certain ways because that is what is necessary for a solider. orders must be followed without question ,your team must always be the in the right and the best , the enemy must be dehumanized . because this is whats required for a cohesive group of men to wage war... this is why we don't want to live in a state of martial law and why congress is supposed to be required to declare war. believe it or not I do have great respect military men and woman they do there job , do it well and with courage.... "ours is not to question why ours is but to do or die"
 
Some people, Taomon, are just predisposed for exacting torture by whatever method available.


Torture does not produce any reliable information. This is a proven historical fact.

http://www.psysr.org/tortureseminar.htm

It matters not whether the actions are productive, legal or even accepted amongst their own population. Torture gives them an excitement that even they cannot describe.

I continue to believe that most people, like me, believe torture to be anti Christian and anti Society and anti productive.
 
Whats your point???... These dirtbags have no rights under the geneva convention or under American law...

Torture them till they talk... Then kill em for fun... Better yet let the families of the victims of 9-11 do it!

IT APPEARS AS IF THE MAJORITY OF FAMILY MEMBERS ARE FAR MORE INTERESTED IN EXPOSING THE TRUTH OF 911,

http://www.timesexaminer.com/content/view/48/1/
 
Whats your point???... These dirtbags have no rights under the geneva convention or under American law...

Torture them till they talk... Then kill em for fun... Better yet let the families of the victims of 9-11 do it!

I have a better idea, prosecute them with evidence in our judicial system. If guilty, okay sentence them to death immediately (why waste taxpayers money on them like we are now) and execute them.

The problem with your argument is that you assume everyone held in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib or any number of secret detention centers throughout the world) are guilty. There are many innocent people and children who are kidnapped (renditioned), imprisoned with no writ of Habeas Corpus, tortured and humiliated, and held indefinitely (and sometimes let go with no apology).

Torture does not produce reliable intel. It is not even a very good revenge because it is only revenge when you have a perpetrator of a crime in custody. But revenge is not justice. Revenge and torture are tools of the weak minded and ethically bankrupt.
 
considering that article VI of our constitution states that all treaties signed become the law of the land, our enemies detained by us do indeed have rights under our laws in accordance with the "United Nations CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" which we signed under during the Reagan administration. Either follow the laws of the land, or piss on the constitution. take your pick.

Sorry MM.....That does not apply to civilian dressed terrorists, but does apply uniformed combatants.....Try agian!

But I'm sure you can put some spin and twist on it to determine otherwise, as long as it weakens our position protecting ourselves from terrorism ...

Happy New Year, and Merry Christmas by the way!
 

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