Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields

[nicoleivy5]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

 

[aris2chat]

did you expect different?

the stories are getting worse about abuses by "all" sides on civilians and those who were held as slaves.

down right nazi death camp horror

 

[nicoleivy5]

did you expect different?

the stories are getting worse about abuses by "all" sides on civilians and those who were held as slaves.

down right nazi death camp horror

I didnt expect them to take it this far to be honest. Human shields. yikes

 

[aris2chat]

did you expect different?

the stories are getting worse about abuses by "all" sides on civilians and those who were held as slaves.

down right nazi death camp horror

I didnt expect them to take it this far to be honest. Human shields. yikes

Evil ISIS slaughter 250 kids in dough kneader horror and burn men alive in oven

 

[frigidweirdo]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

 

[Lastamender]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

 

[aris2chat]

Reeling Isis Tricks Boys As Young As 8 Into Manning Front Lines

 

[320 Years of History]

"Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields"

I'm not sure what this thread is meant to be about. That ISIS is using human shields is nothing new or unexpected, nor is it any less deplorable than it was the last time ISIS did so.

 

[Lastamender]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

 

[aris2chat]

"Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields"

I'm not sure what this thread is meant to be about. That ISIS is using human shields is nothing new or unexpected, nor is it any less deplorable than it was the last time ISIS did so.

Its the middle east and war, human shields are normal, this is not a battle field clash of armies

 

[Bleipriester]

did you expect different?

the stories are getting worse about abuses by "all" sides on civilians and those who were held as slaves.

down right nazi death camp horror

I didnt expect them to take it this far to be honest. Human shields. yikes

Evil ISIS slaughter 250 kids in dough kneader horror and burn men alive in oven

So you love ISIS?

 

[Moonglow]

did you expect different?

the stories are getting worse about abuses by "all" sides on civilians and those who were held as slaves.

down right nazi death camp horror

It's closer to the Japanese than the Germans...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

 

[Lastamender]

Islamic State terrorists are using civilians as human shields - full article

"At least 200 Iraqi families have been made to leave their homes for Mosul by Islamic State (IS) fighters and could be used as human shields, the UN warns.

A coalition of forces began an advance on the IS-held city, the second largest in Iraq, on Monday.

The UN human rights office says IS made the 200 families walk to Mosul from a nearby village on the same day."

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ah, the consequences of going to war in Iraq.

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.

 

[Lastamender]

The consequences of Islam. They hate us because we do not believe what they do. It is Islams doctrine and ISIS follows it to the letter. They are doing what Mohammad did. To blame their obligation as Muslims on us is just bullshit.

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not really, this takes a massive lack of understanding of the last 200 or so years of history involving Islam and the west.

Do you want a list of all Muslim countries that have either been invaded by, had interference from the West? I'd say it's almost all Muslim countries.

Iraq was made by the British and the League of Nations, taking different peoples who have nothing in common and forcing them to be a country.
Iraq was invaded by the British in WW1 and then again in 2003 alongside the Americans.

Syria was made by the French.

Palestine was occupied by the British and then given to the Israelis and the US backed them even when they caused massive problems.

Egypt was controlled by the British, along with the Sudan.

What is now Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of British India. Afghanistan has been invaded three times by the British, and the USSR invaded too. They kicked them all out, why? Because they used Jihad as a way of making sure their troops were able to fight effectively. Without Jihad they'd have been nothing. So, all of the issues Muslims have had, the ONE THING that worked in the favor against the west was Jihad. So it's hardly surprising that it has grown and grown since the British first went into Afghanistan.

Literally the west created the monster that is fundamentalist Islam. The west thought there would be no negative consequences to their actions. They were massively wrong. 200 years or more of history and the Muslim people are angry as hell and they're willing to fight back.

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

 

[Lastamender]

How about we go back farther than two hundred years. From 630AD until the late 17th century Islam spread terror through the Christian world. Did you forget that? Did you forget the slave trade was almost a monopoly for Islam?

And that if any Muslim disagrees with Mohammad he is wrong. Fundamental Islam is extreme by Western standards and always has been. The fact that Europeans occupied parts of the Islamic world speaks volumes about Islams stagnant and backward societies. Actually Europeans raised the standards of living in every country they controlled. They bought in electricity and built infrastructure for clean water.

And they showered money on the leaders of these countries that they squandered on themselves while their people starved. Blaming the West is a cop out and cowardice. You are tolerating intolerance, and I will repeat that is cowardice.

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why go back further? Just because you think it's convenient? I didn't just pluck 200 odd years ago out of my ass you know. I did it for a reason. Because that is when the modern Jihad was born, when Islam started to become more fundamentalist.

Before this Islam was becoming more modern (comparatively) and becoming more secular. It could be see all over the place. Before this we see Islam as being more tolerant than Christianity, Spain, the Ottoman Empire and other such places where other religions were tolerated. When the Christians won back Spain they then went and kicked out the Muslims and the Jews, hence why the Sephardi Jews still speak a language that is similar to old Spanish.

Islam might have "spread terror" to the Christian world, but the Christians "spread terror" to the Islamic world too. What's your point? Christians went to the Americas and butchered the people there, imposed themselves over them and this lasted for 600 years and beyond into today and the future. What's your point here? Because I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand right now. It's just you trying to deflect and thinking you're being intelligent by bringing up the topic if Muslims killing Christians while ignoring that Christians did the same, and ignoring that it has nothing to do with the modern times and this topic.

My point is you are blaming the West for what would have happened anyway. The religion(Mohammad) laid down the obligations, the sanctioning of violence and terror, supremacy and sexism 1400 years ago. It is unchangable and when circumstances permit jihad in all its forms happen.

No, I completely disagree. This appears to me to be a lazy view of history. Why would it "have happened anyway"?

Islam may have said stuff, but so to did Christianity. Turkey has been, until recently, a secular state which was quite tolerant and moving in the right direction. The problem is it is turning backwards and it appears that the problems the US has caused, Iraq most notably, has changed the attitudes of those in Turkey and a more religious right wing govt has found it easier to stay in power in Ankara. States like Iraq which were actually quite liberal (even if it had an evil dictator in power) were overturned and not enough was done to make the country function as a state, and that was Bremer and Bush's fault.

Christianity has "kill adulterers"

Deuteronomy 22:22
"“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."

For example. This doesn't mean it happens. Often religion is able to change, what is written, and what it becomes are two different things. Morals change. Islam has also changed. Turkey is not the same as Saudi Arabia. Why? They're both Islamic countries.

The thing is that Christian countries, like the US and the UK are the countries causing the most instability that leads to violence. They are Christian countries, the US majority Christian, the UK with a head of state who is head of a church too. And yet you point to Islam being violent, it is, but so too is Christianity, the difference is the Christians put the Bible to one side and make excuses for why they're doing this killing, and they often do it in the name of GREED, which, apparently, is supposed to be a bad thing according to the Bible.[/QUOTE]

You are damned right the Bible is put away by supposed Christians. None of those actions follow the doctrine of Christianity. On the other hand, the Koran obligates and sanctions violence. You have just defeated your own argument.

Wish to try again? The West has nothing to do with the hate Islam instills and demands for non-believers

Christianity sanctions violence, and Christians are violent. Islam sanctions violence, and Muslims are violent. And somehow this defeats my argument? Or, as it appears, you're trying to get down to simplified points and ignoring the reality of a complex situation. Not many people want to really understand what is going on. You want to be able to tell other folks easily how "things are" and they'll believe you because they want to believe.

Seems you've used almost nothing to back yourself up, usually such arguments are as weak as hot water masquerading as tea.

Show me where in the NT violence is sanctioned. What would you like for back up? Verses and actions that go with those verses? Facts about Mohammad who is Islam?

I don't know what "NT violence" is.

What would I have you back it up with? Well, this is YOUR ARGUMENT that you're making, and I assume you've come to this viewpoint somehow. Now you're telling me you just came to this viewpoint out of nowhere, and that's why you can't back it up. Great.

No, you see, I can back up what I've said, everything. Why? Because my argument isn't based on bullshit, made up crap and nonsense. It's actually based in reality.