Is Your God Limited to The God of Abraham?

[OZman]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

You are not giving the context.


It's referring to the Jews during the time of Asa.

Divrei Hayamim II - Chapter 15 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

It also says

14And they swore to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting, and with trumpets and with shopharoth.


15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, because they had sworn with all their heart, and they sought Him with all their will, and He was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest from round about.

And the reward...

19And there was no war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa's reign.

Context

The context of the verse is that non believers are to killed, their "reward" is irrelevant.

Exodus 15:3King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.

 

[RandomVariable]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

You are not giving the context.


It's referring to the Jews during the time of Asa.

Divrei Hayamim II - Chapter 15 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

It also says

14And they swore to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting, and with trumpets and with shopharoth.


15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, because they had sworn with all their heart, and they sought Him with all their will, and He was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest from round about.

And the reward...

19And there was no war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa's reign.

Context

The context of the verse is that non believers are to killed, their "reward" is irrelevant.

Exodus 15:3King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.

Do you honestly believe what muslims believe their god wants is what the God of Abraham wants?

Do you believe in a god?

 

[OZman]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

You are not giving the context.


It's referring to the Jews during the time of Asa.

Divrei Hayamim II - Chapter 15 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

It also says

14And they swore to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting, and with trumpets and with shopharoth.


15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, because they had sworn with all their heart, and they sought Him with all their will, and He was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest from round about.

And the reward...

19And there was no war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa's reign.

Context

The context of the verse is that non believers are to killed, their "reward" is irrelevant.

Exodus 15:3King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.

Do you honestly believe what muslims believe their god wants is what the God of Abraham wants?

Do you believe in a god?

I have no idea what Muslims want, nor do I care, I was merely pointing to the fact that killing non believers is evident in the Bible, as well as the Koran.

Do you believe in a god?

I know that man has a spirit, and that spirit is connected to God. What God "is" I do not try to ponder, it is beyond the human senses, I only try to feel the presence in my life. I do not follow any religion.

 

[RandomVariable]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

You are not giving the context.


It's referring to the Jews during the time of Asa.

Divrei Hayamim II - Chapter 15 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

It also says

14And they swore to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting, and with trumpets and with shopharoth.


15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, because they had sworn with all their heart, and they sought Him with all their will, and He was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest from round about.

And the reward...

19And there was no war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa's reign.

Context

The context of the verse is that non believers are to killed, their "reward" is irrelevant.

Exodus 15:3King James Version (KJV)
3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.

Do you honestly believe what muslims believe their god wants is what the God of Abraham wants?

Do you believe in a god?

I have no idea what Muslims want, nor do I care, I was merely pointing to the fact that killing non believers is evident in the Bible, as well as the Koran.

Do you believe in a god?

I know that man has a spirit, and that spirit is connected to God. What God "is" I do not try to ponder, it is beyond the human senses, the only path for me is to try and feel the presence in my life. I do not follow any religion.

You probably don't like religion in general and this is more about your agenda then the truth. We see that a lot here.

 

[AVG-JOE]

What if the only thing standing between you and a relationship with God just like the one Abraham had is a bunch of dusty old Arab stories, carried forward through Time by greedy Monkeys with political agendas and less accountability than we have today; ass-u-me-ing any among you can imagine less political accountability than we have today?

What if?​

 

[RandomVariable]

What if the only thing standing between you and a relationship with God just like the one Abraham had is a bunch of dusty old Arab stories, carried forward through Time by greedy Monkeys with political agendas and less accountability than we have today; ass-u-me-ing any among you can imagine less political accountability than we have today?

What if?​

OK, I'll be the kid is class who asks, "What are you babbling on about?" Are you asking if it is the the Bible that is getting in the way of us having a relationship with God?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The God of Abraham refers to the faith Abraham demonstrated and it was then identified with him. That's why when it talks about being Abraham's seed it refers to the seed of faith, not his literal lineage

An interpretation of ancient literature that's just as valid as every other interpretation.

See what I mean?

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

OK, I'll be the kid is class who asks, "What are you babbling on about?" Are you asking if it is the the Bible that is getting in the way of us having a relationship with God?

Pretty much. The Qur'an too.

Religion in general. The stories say that God visited Abraham and hung out with him, where they talked about Abe's future.

Abraham didn't have God boxed in to a dogma, he was free to relate to God in the moment. Now that I have a few years in the rear-view since I found to my dismay that I could no longer reconcile Christianity with personal intelligence and current knowledge, I too feel free.

And I've always felt lucky. Maybe you can tell how much God likes a Monkey by how lucky they are.....

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

I reiterate: Bury The God of Abraham with Abraham and celebrate The God of (insert your name here).

 

[AVG-JOE]

Considering the ancient stories is the key...

Sacred, infallible documents, carried forward through Time and taught by special men, entrusted to the job by God Himself, or the brain-droppings of merely human Monkeys, Evolving on a wet rock in space and playing with an newly discovered tool called The Written Word?

And The Word Was God.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Do you believe in a god?

I know that man has a spirit, and that spirit is connected to God. What God "is" I do not try to ponder, it is beyond the human senses, I only try to feel the presence in my life. I do not follow any religion.

 

[G.T.]

My question remains... Which God?

​

God told me to read the Old Testament and only the Old Testament. It is not much of an answer I will admit.

The god of the old testament was a sad sack of shit.

And you have this opinion why?

He is jealous
Genocidal
Condones slavery
Belittles women

Shit like that.


Id rather go to hell if that was god.

Sounds like a plan

Sounds like a kooky theory.

 

[BluePhantom]

Are you that ignorant or are you being dishonest? I find it hard to believe you honestly believe that.

Dude, it's the same God. Both religions, Christianity and Islam, worship the God of Abraham. They relate to Him differently. They have different beliefs about what God wants. But Judaism and Christianity trace their relationship to God through Isaac to Abraham where Muslims trace their relationship with God through Ishmael to Abraham, but both trace back to the God of Abraham. That's why they have been fighting for thousands of years.

Now it's not God's fault for what people write about Him. The Quran says that Jesus was not the Son of God and the Bible says he was. That's just a point of disagreement between the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Neither is it the fault of the Bible nor the Quran if extremists take things out of context and screw the whole thing up. Most of those who argue that Allah and the Judeo-Christian God are different deities do so on the basis that the Bible and the Quran are vastly different, but that argument has no merit. All that means is that we have three groups of people who have three different ideas about the same God.

You are arguing with someone who talks to God. islam worships something completely different. Just like Goddess_Ashtara claims she worships the God of Abraham. She does not, or if she does he does not acknowledge her. So islam can claim all night and day they worship the God of Abraham but whoever that is he is not the same God, he is not even a god for that matter. Ask God yourself if you like.

Everyone who believes in God talks to God, dude. Jeez. Or do you have Him on speed dial. 'Siri, call God'. Look, you are getting too wrapped up in the human interpretations and human languages. Just because different cultures use different words and have different traditions about sex does not mean that they are referring to different activities. Sex is sex in all cultures. God is, in my view very similar. Different peoples have related to Him in the manner that made sense for their culture throughout time. You are suggesting that a Muslim can worship God, the exact same God as the Hebrew God, but God doesn't care because they relate to Him in a different way. That's like telling your children that you wish to be referred to as "daddy", and refusing to have anything to do with them if they call you "papa". Thus, if Goddess_Ashtara or Westwall find it easier to relate to God through nature, fine. That's how they best understand and can find communion with Him.

I feel sorry for all those tribes in North and South America before Christianity came. All that worship they did, all those sacrifices...all those souls lost for nothing because they didn't call Him YHWH. BTW, how arrogant of you to speak on behalf of God. I have a feeling God can decide for Himself whether or not He will accept a form of worship or prayer from someone and doesn't need you to make that determination for Him. I am guessing He doesn't call you back on your cell phone after you have left a message

 

[BluePhantom]

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Deuteronomy 13, verses 1-12 I believe. In fact if memory serves it says don't just kill them, kill their livestock, their families, and burn down the entire town. I may be wrong on those specifics. I would have to look it up

That has to do with people trying to get Jews to worship false prophets.

That has nothing to do with killing all non believers.

People who try to go after jews to worship false G-D are threat to their soul. They are worse than Al Qaida.

And as I pointed out, the part in the Quran I quoted about killing non-believers, which is one of the most common ones used to make such allegations, is talking specifically about a group that had broken a treaty. It is saying "kill all of those non-believers specifically" not "all non-believers everywhere". I don't see the difference...well except that the Quran says if they repent to spare their lives and the Bible says to slaughter their livestock and burn the entire town. I find it so interesting that context is important in the Bible, but we can apparently cherry pick the hell out of the Quran and it's no big deal. Sheesh

 

[RandomVariable]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Deuteronomy 13, verses 1-12 I believe. In fact if memory serves it says don't just kill them, kill their livestock, their families, and burn down the entire town. I may be wrong on those specifics. I would have to look it up

That has to do with people trying to get Jews to worship false prophets.

That has nothing to do with killing all non believers.

People who try to go after jews to worship false G-D are threat to their soul. They are worse than Al Qaida.

And as I pointed out, the part in the Quran I quoted about killing non-believers, which is one of the most common ones used to make such allegations, is talking specifically about a group that had broken a treaty. It is saying "kill all of those non-believers specifically" not "all non-believers everywhere". I don't see the difference...well except that the Quran says if they repent to spare their lives and the Bible says to slaughter their livestock and burn the entire town. I find it so interesting that context is important in the Bible, but we can apparently cherry pick the hell out of the Quran and it's no big deal. Sheesh

Got it. Because you do not like religion it suits your purpose to equate islam with other religions since islam is a death cult you can claim all religions are death cults. You are a very disingenuous person. All you disingenuous people in the religion forum should start your own religion. Hey, then someone else who does not like religion can say because Blue's religion is disingenuous all religions are disingenuous. Is any of this sinking in?

 

[BluePhantom]

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Deuteronomy 13, verses 1-12 I believe. In fact if memory serves it says don't just kill them, kill their livestock, their families, and burn down the entire town. I may be wrong on those specifics. I would have to look it up

That has to do with people trying to get Jews to worship false prophets.

That has nothing to do with killing all non believers.

People who try to go after jews to worship false G-D are threat to their soul. They are worse than Al Qaida.

And as I pointed out, the part in the Quran I quoted about killing non-believers, which is one of the most common ones used to make such allegations, is talking specifically about a group that had broken a treaty. It is saying "kill all of those non-believers specifically" not "all non-believers everywhere". I don't see the difference...well except that the Quran says if they repent to spare their lives and the Bible says to slaughter their livestock and burn the entire town. I find it so interesting that context is important in the Bible, but we can apparently cherry pick the hell out of the Quran and it's no big deal. Sheesh

Got it. Because you do not like religion it suits your purpose to equate islam with other religions since islam is a death cult you can claim all religions are death cults. You are a very disingenuous person. All you disingenuous people in the religion forum should start your own religion. Hey, then someone else who does not like religion can say because Blue's religion is disingenuous all religions are disingenuous. Is any of this sinking in?

What the hell are you talking about? I am one of the most passionate defenders of religion on USMB and study scripture and Biblical scholarship on a nearly daily basis. You are the one saying "it's my way or the highway" not me. You don't agree with my perspective and so suddenly I am anti-religion and disingenuous. Get a grip.

 

[RandomVariable]

Are you that ignorant or are you being dishonest? I find it hard to believe you honestly believe that.

Dude, it's the same God. Both religions, Christianity and Islam, worship the God of Abraham. They relate to Him differently. They have different beliefs about what God wants. But Judaism and Christianity trace their relationship to God through Isaac to Abraham where Muslims trace their relationship with God through Ishmael to Abraham, but both trace back to the God of Abraham. That's why they have been fighting for thousands of years.

Now it's not God's fault for what people write about Him. The Quran says that Jesus was not the Son of God and the Bible says he was. That's just a point of disagreement between the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Neither is it the fault of the Bible nor the Quran if extremists take things out of context and screw the whole thing up. Most of those who argue that Allah and the Judeo-Christian God are different deities do so on the basis that the Bible and the Quran are vastly different, but that argument has no merit. All that means is that we have three groups of people who have three different ideas about the same God.

You are arguing with someone who talks to God. islam worships something completely different. Just like Goddess_Ashtara claims she worships the God of Abraham. She does not, or if she does he does not acknowledge her. So islam can claim all night and day they worship the God of Abraham but whoever that is he is not the same God, he is not even a god for that matter. Ask God yourself if you like.

Everyone who believes in God talks to God, dude. Jeez. Or do you have Him on speed dial. 'Siri, call God'. Look, you are getting too wrapped up in the human interpretations and human languages. Just because different cultures use different words and have different traditions about sex does not mean that they are referring to different activities. Sex is sex in all cultures. God is, in my view very similar. Different peoples have related to Him in the manner that made sense for their culture throughout time. You are suggesting that a Muslim can worship God, the exact same God as the Hebrew God, but God doesn't care because they relate to Him in a different way. That's like telling your children that you wish to be referred to as "daddy", and refusing to have anything to do with them if they call you "papa". Thus, if Goddess_Ashtara or Westwall find it easier to relate to God through nature, fine. That's how they best understand and can find communion with Him.

I feel sorry for all those tribes in North and South America before Christianity came. All that worship they did, all those sacrifices...all those souls lost for nothing because they didn't call Him YHWH. BTW, how arrogant of you to speak on behalf of God. I have a feeling God can decide for Himself whether or not He will accept a form of worship or prayer from someone and doesn't need you to make that determination for Him. I am guessing He doesn't call you back on your cell phone after you have left a message

You are an example of what happens when a person gets the concept but does not understand the application. You say that people use different words for sex but it means the same thing. Can you understand that perhaps people use the same word but it refers to different things? Your view is wrong. If when I say tree you think of a tree but I think of a rock then we are not using the same word to refer to the same thing, or different words to refer to the same thing, or anyway you want to mix and match it. They are two separate things in and of themselves. I appreciate the fact that you took a philosophy class along the way or read a book about some philosopher in particular but you lack comprehension in a major way.

Unless you believe you talk to God yourself you have no possible way to know what I am speaking of. My arrogance? You are the one who does not even believe in God and you are trying to tell God who he is and is not. You are like someone who lives in the desert who has never even seen liquid water trying to explain to an oceanographer how everything that lives in the seven seas is exactly the same, included sea weed.

 

[RandomVariable]

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Deuteronomy 13, verses 1-12 I believe. In fact if memory serves it says don't just kill them, kill their livestock, their families, and burn down the entire town. I may be wrong on those specifics. I would have to look it up

That has to do with people trying to get Jews to worship false prophets.

That has nothing to do with killing all non believers.

People who try to go after jews to worship false G-D are threat to their soul. They are worse than Al Qaida.

And as I pointed out, the part in the Quran I quoted about killing non-believers, which is one of the most common ones used to make such allegations, is talking specifically about a group that had broken a treaty. It is saying "kill all of those non-believers specifically" not "all non-believers everywhere". I don't see the difference...well except that the Quran says if they repent to spare their lives and the Bible says to slaughter their livestock and burn the entire town. I find it so interesting that context is important in the Bible, but we can apparently cherry pick the hell out of the Quran and it's no big deal. Sheesh

Got it. Because you do not like religion it suits your purpose to equate islam with other religions since islam is a death cult you can claim all religions are death cults. You are a very disingenuous person. All you disingenuous people in the religion forum should start your own religion. Hey, then someone else who does not like religion can say because Blue's religion is disingenuous all religions are disingenuous. Is any of this sinking in?

What the hell are you talking about? I am one of the most passionate defenders of religion on USMB and study scripture and Biblical scholarship on a nearly daily basis. You are the one saying "it's my way or the highway" not me. You don't agree with my perspective and so suddenly I am anti-religion and disingenuous. Get a grip.

Then all your study is like pouring water on a rock.

 

[RandomVariable]

Blue, one of the posters called my God a sack of shit. This does not bother me. I asked the person why he/she felt that way. Muslim75 wrote, "The first thing to do in life is to fear God. If you do not, He will destroy you; in both lives" M75 does not believe all gods are one. He just stated that if anyone says so they should be killed 'in both lives', that means here on earth if you missed that. Both my reaction to people's opinion and and M75's reaction to people's opinion are by in large representative of our religions. How can you miss that glaring fact? I will admit you are far from the only one however.

 

[RandomVariable]

Blue, I was just reading HaShev's Gnostic teachings. Perhaps it is the definition of worship you have misunderstood. Different religions do not worship the same god. You might state there is only one god who will let all 'good' people into heaven but to say what people worship is the same is not overly simplistic, it is flat our wrong.