Is Violence Against Women EVER Justified?

[koshergrl]

http://www.hruth.org/files/library/CycleofViolence.pdf

and this diagram is not depicting a gender is it? You are again ASSUMING it is depicting a man.

Uh, no, I'm not?

For the record, all the so-called men on this thread who are shouting to the world that they have a right to hit women sometimes, are not victims. That is pretty standard batterer behavior.

 

[BDBoop]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Then I guess you don't actually know any of the women you were just waxing so eloquent about. You don't know about the psychic, internal scars. You literally believe that only physical violence needs to be addressed.

Well, I can see why. Your behaviors are on the line.

 

[Si modo]

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Hmmm...you just called someone a name...that isn't verbal violence?

Maybe it's just me, but for anything to be violent, there must be some sort of physical aspect to it when referring to a dispute.

When referring to something else, like an upset stomach, not so much.

For example, if someone told me the disagreement was a violent one, I would assume fists/hitting was involved.

 

[koshergrl]

Calling someone a name isn't violent.

 

[TrinityPower]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Well from your own link it says:

Domestic Violence is a violent confrontation between family or household members involving physical harm, sexual assault, or fear of physical harm. Family or household members include spouses / former spouses, those in (or formerly in) a dating relationship, adults related by blood or marriage, and those who have a biological or legal parent-child relationship.

The batterer uses acts of violence and a series of behaviors, including intimidation, threats, psychological abuse, and isolation to coerce and to control the other person. The violence may not happen often, but may remain a hidden and constant terrorizing factor. Domestic violence is not only physical and sexual violence but also psychological. Psychological violence means intense and repetitive degradation, creating isolation, and controlling the actions or behaviors of the spouse through intimidation or manipulation to the detriment of the individual.

That sounds a lot like what you are doing on this thread.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Then I guess you don't actually know any of the women you were just waxing so eloquent about. You don't know about the psychic, internal scars. You literally believe that only physical violence needs to be addressed.

Well, I can see why. Your behaviors are on the line.

No, my behaviors aren't.

I have taught this class. I have gone with these women to the dr, to their houses to pick up their stuff, their kids..I've gone with them to court.

You are perpetuating a myth that women deserve to be hit for saying things that men don't like to hear.

And I am addressing batterers, since this thread is about hitting women. I know what verbal abuse is. In this forum I suppose we're all guilty of it...but we hold no power over each other as we're anonymous and can leave at any time, and there's very little concern for most of us that it will ever cross into the realm of physical abuse. But THIS thread is about hitting women, per the OP.

Though really...how many times have you seen "it's okay to murder bdboop" in big letters at the bottom of threads you're participating in? Are you saying that's justified because I'm verbally abusive on an anonymous message board? Do you think someone needs to kill me to protect themselves from me on usmb?

 

[BDBoop]

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Then I guess you don't actually know any of the women you were just waxing so eloquent about. You don't know about the psychic, internal scars. You literally believe that only physical violence needs to be addressed.

Well, I can see why. Your behaviors are on the line.

No, my behaviors aren't.

I have taught this class. I have gone with these women to the dr, to their houses to pick up their stuff, their kids..I've gone with them to court.

You are perpetuating a myth that women deserve to be hit for saying things that men don't like to hear.

No, I'm not. I'm calling you on your shit, while you attempt to sling shit at others.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Well from your own link it says:

Domestic Violence is a violent confrontation between family or household members involving physical harm, sexual assault, or fear of physical harm. Family or household members include spouses / former spouses, those in (or formerly in) a dating relationship, adults related by blood or marriage, and those who have a biological or legal parent-child relationship.

The batterer uses acts of violence and a series of behaviors, including intimidation, threats, psychological abuse, and isolation to coerce and to control the other person. The violence may not happen often, but may remain a hidden and constant terrorizing factor. Domestic violence is not only physical and sexual violence but also psychological. Psychological violence means intense and repetitive degradation, creating isolation, and controlling the actions or behaviors of the spouse through intimidation or manipulation to the detriment of the individual.

That sounds a lot like what you are doing on this thread.

Yes, because telling men who are musing about when it's okay to break a woman's nose that it's NEVER okay is "verbal abuse".

You fit right in. You've found your niche. Meet Blue Phantom, Starkey, Booboo, Biker...and when he arrives, Paulie...our resident batterers. They routinely have this discussion, under one guise or another.

 

[TrinityPower]

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Well from your own link it says:

Domestic Violence is a violent confrontation between family or household members involving physical harm, sexual assault, or fear of physical harm. Family or household members include spouses / former spouses, those in (or formerly in) a dating relationship, adults related by blood or marriage, and those who have a biological or legal parent-child relationship.

The batterer uses acts of violence and a series of behaviors, including intimidation, threats, psychological abuse, and isolation to coerce and to control the other person. The violence may not happen often, but may remain a hidden and constant terrorizing factor. Domestic violence is not only physical and sexual violence but also psychological. Psychological violence means intense and repetitive degradation, creating isolation, and controlling the actions or behaviors of the spouse through intimidation or manipulation to the detriment of the individual.

That sounds a lot like what you are doing on this thread.

Yes, because telling men who are musing about when it's okay to break a woman's nose that it's NEVER okay is "verbal abuse".

You fit right in. You've found your niche. Meet Blue Phantom, Starkey, Booboo, Biker...and when he arrives, Paulie...our resident batterers. They routinely have this discussion, under one guise or another.

Soooo....Are you implying that BluePhantom is an abuser...in your opinion of course?

 

[TrinityPower]

XXXX

Well I will put the myth to rest for you...he isn't and I can tell you that because he is my husband.

 

[koshergrl]

Good for you.

 

[Si modo]

xxxxx

 

[BDBoop]

Wow. I can count on one hand the times I've been rendered speechless.

Seriously. Wow.

 

[koshergrl]

Educate yourself, that's all I can say.

I interviewed a chief of police when he was retiring after many years. I asked him what was the one thing he knew now, that he didn't know early in his career, that he never saw coming.

He said he never realized how difficult it was for battered women to get away. He'd always sort of sneered at them, and assumed they wanted to be there, and thought they contributed to their abuse. Until he got neck deep in the cases, and he realized how awful, how convoluted, and how impossible their situations.

I've worked in this field, with these people. Have you?

 

[Si modo]

Good for you.

KG, I am going to try to appeal to the rational part of you that I used to know.

I know you have personal experience in this area; you've said on the board that one of your exes had a nasty habit of breaking your bones.

That's horrible and I'm sorry you went through that. And, if I went through that, I cannot say if I would not be a bit harsh with men in general. I would like to think that my thinking self would not allow for that.

I have seen you hit quite low blows with Paulie, Sallow, and now Blue.

I'm not the biggest fan of Sallow's politics, nor of some of Paulie's tastes, but they certainly show their human sides at times.

I have rarely seen Blue be less than civil with most.

Some have claimed that you just hate men in general. I have poo-pooed that thought, because like I said, I know the rational side of you...I've seen it.

But, honestly, I can't say that so much now. Something has changed.

I'm sorry to see that.

I hope you have the insight to see it as well and think about that.

And, that's all I'm going to say on that. I'm trying to appeal to a poster who I hope is not gone forever.

 

[TrinityPower]

I am new to these discussion boards and am going to throw this out there even though this is off subject. I have made an observation....I have been on a number of threads and read much discussion on many things since my arrival. One thing I have noticed is that every time Koshergirl enters into the discussion the rational speech ends and it results in a name calling fest started by said individual. I see this as a craving for attention by someone who is stressed in life. It is quite disturbing to me why someone wants to fight with the world and everyone in it. If you work with battered women I can appreciate that you are very passionate about standing up for those who receive poor treatment but to treat someone else in a like verbal manner as those you want to represent I feel that verbally abusing others to do so is not as I have quoted in another thread you were a part of "a wise move". It is my understanding that this discussion forum is designed to share ideas in a civil manner and as I said earlier in this thread that much starts violence from not respecting others...as a part of respecting another person isn't it reasonable to not have a throw down and call others ugly names? If you are someone who wants to represent being above these things and speaking against them wouldn't it be a wiser idea to respectfully disagree and state why without adding an ugly name on the end or make accusations?

 

[Unkotare]

So I was having a discussion with the wife about if and when it is ever ok for a man to hit a women. Now the stereotypical answer is “never”. But is that really realistic? Let me toss out some scenarios where a man hit a women. Each of these I have personally witnessed (no I wasn’t the one doing the hitting) and in each case I felt the girl got exactly what she deserved.

Example 1: A buddy of mine had a girlfriend who made no secret that in her opinion she could hit him as much as she wanted because the moment he dared to hit back he would go to jail instead of her and no court would ever convict a woman of being abusive toward a man. I mean she actually bragged about it. She beat on that guy like a drum constantly until one day he finally had enough and “returned the treatment”. (Note: He would have simply left her but they had a child together and he couldn’t leave the child with an abusive woman until he could prove in court she was abusive – eventually that did happen.)

Example 2: To make a long story short, a beautiful woman stole our table at a crowded bar. My brother asked her politely to leave several times and offered to buy her a drink if she would depart. She refused every time told him “beautiful women only take orders when they feel like it so there’s not much you can do about it is there?” and then she blew smoke in his face. He asked her to leave again and warned her that if she blew smoke in his face again he would punch her dead in the face. She said “oh really? I dare you”, leaned directly into his face and exhaled a cloud of smoke around my brothers head….he broke her nose.

Example 3: A woman stood behind her boyfriend screaming at this other guy calling him every name in the book, making reference to his questionable parentage…I mean you name it and she said it. Her boyfriend stood between them and although he wasn’t being aggressive toward the other guy neither was he telling his girlfriend to shut the hell up either. Finally her boyfriend said “you will have to go through me first to shut her up”. The guy said “I accept your terms” and after he beat the shit out of her boyfriend he walked up to the women and punched her dead in the mouth and told her “you got your boyfriends ass kicked you should share his pain.”

Now as I said…..these were thing I witnessed where I said to myself “normally I would never endorse violence of any kind let alone against women…..but in this case….the ***** was begging for it.”

I welcome thoughts.

1) Your buddy was an idiot and should be locked up

2) Your brother was an idiot and should be beaten and then locked up

3) The guy was an idiot and should be beaten and then locked up

 

[Unkotare]

walk away

Ahhhhhh but that's not always realistic is it? I mean as men we are taught that when things get too hot to walk away, but society teaches women not to let their man go. Keep him there and keep him communicating. So we try to walk away like we are taught and they often won't let us because that's what they are taught.

Maybe not fair, but the onus is on the stronger gender to control the situation as far as possible.

 

[koshergrl]

Good for you.

KG, I am going to try to appeal to the rational part of you that I used to know.

I know you have personal experience in this area; you've said on the board that one of your exes had a nasty habit of breaking your bones.

That's horrible and I'm sorry you went through that. And, if I went through that, I cannot say if I would not be a bit harsh with men in general. I would like to think that my thinking self would not allow for that.

I have seen you hit quite low blows with Paulie, Sallow, and now Blue.

I'm not the biggest fan of Sallow's politics, nor of some of Paulie's tastes, but they certainly show their human sides at times.

I have rarely seen Blue be less than civil with most.

Some have claimed that you just hate men in general. I have poo-pooed that thought, because like I said, I know the rational side of you...I've seen it.

But, honestly, I can't say that so much now. Something has changed.

I'm sorry to see that.

I hope you have the insight to see it as well and think about that.

And, that's all I'm going to say on that. I'm trying to appeal to a poster who I hope is not gone forever.

Oh don't be so melodramatic. Look at the title of this thread. Look at the men who are posting in it. Then consider the conversations they've had in the past.

And if I'm asked a specific question I'm going to give an answer. The rest are what they are, and what we all know they are. It's ALWAYS the same ones that are drawn to this thread...it is perhaps off your radar, this isn't the field you work in, I assume, based on your comments about it.

It is my field. I've worked in this field for years and years. I've worked with the professionals who counsel and treat the victims and the batterers, I've BEEN ONE MYSELF. My relatives, my best friends, the circles I move in professionally and privately are the people who work with batterers and their victims. Counselors, judges, DAs, cops, reporters, addiction professionals, child services workers, probation officers, DV counselors and program managers.

These guys get into these discussions and start defending reprehensible behavior...and then women flock to their defense and tell me I'M the one who is out of line. LOOK AT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE THREAD. These guys are discussing under what circumstances it's okay to knock a woman around.

Think about it. I know it's not your field, but before you attack me, give it some consideration, and for God's sakes, educate yourself. And if you aren't knowledgeable about it, at least don't say anything at all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Yes, verbal abuse is verbal violence, not way around it. Verbal violence is an assault against the dignity and decency of the individual. No one, man or woman, has the right to do that.