Is Universal Healthcare Really the Answer?

[Charles Stucker]

"Is universal health care the answer?"
That depends on the question.
If the Question is "How do you set about insuring the USA goes bankrupt in the next ten years."
Then yes, the answer IS universal health care.

 

[Claudette]

Nothing wrong with my education Yank. Got it fair and square in public schools in NY, NH and Florida. No college but a lot of living.

As for you patting yourself on the back, kiinda hard to miss that since you think everyone is stupid or uninformed. Wait. That only applies to the folks that you disagree with. Imagine that You and the Dems and Obamalama think they are the only people who are informed. Believe me. I make up my own miind about things both political and in my life. Am open to suggestioins, will not be pushed by anyone. Thats just me.

If your really interested, doncha know is a term I use with another subject on another board. Kind of a joke between the two of us doncha know. Never been to Alaska though I do have a cousin that was born there. Did spend over 20 years in NH almost on the Canadian border. I can swear quite well in French. Eloquent language for swearing. Love Hockey also. Big Boston Bruins fan.

 

[VaYank5150]

Nothing wrong with my education Yank. Got it fair and square in public schools in NY, NH and Florida. No college but a lot of living.

As for you patting yourself on the back, kiinda hard to miss that since you think everyone is stupid or uninformed. Wait. That only applies to the folks that you disagree with. Imagine that You and the Dems and Obamalama think they are the only people who are informed.

If your really interested, doncha know is a term I use with another subject on another board. Kind of a joke between the two of us doncha know. Never been to Alaska though I do have a cousin that was born there. Did spend over 20 years in NH almost on the Canadian border. I can swear quite well in French. Eloquent language for swearing. Love Hockey also. Big Boston Bruins fan.

Do you have a comprehension issue? I haven't disagreed with a single talking point you have made. I simply pointed out your BS for what it was. That is not disagreeing.

 

[Claudette]

Which BS are you referring to there Yank?? Since I don't listen to Rush or Hannity and rarely watch Beck it can't be their BS. Kinda hard to figure which BS your referring to. You will have to be more specific when dealiing with an uninformed rube like me doncha know.

 

[VaYank5150]

Which BS are you referring to there Yank?? Since I don't listen to Rush or Hannity and rarely watch Beck it can't be their BS. Kinda hard to figure which BS your referring to. You will have to be more specific when dealiing with an uninformed rube like me doncha know.

My God, you are thick. DO you NOT recall me pointing out your incorrect use (BS) of the term Universal Healthcare?

 

[Immanuel]

Thats a tall statement there Yank. Since I don't listen to Rush or Hannity and catch Beck once in a while, kinda hard to get their talking points doncha know.

As for being uninformed. It seems to me your the one who's uninformed if you think the Govt entitlements in this country are well run and cost effective considering the amount of waste and fraud thats been reported. Hmmmm Mayby you should get a little better informed before you start slinging stones there boyo.

No dipshit....you are the Hannities and Becks and Limpballs of the world are the only onoes calling reform UNIVERSAL healthcare. What has been proposed is NOT universal. IF you knew even an ounce of what you need to on this subject, we would not be having this conversation. Instead...stick to your talking points.

Yank,

You know I always enjoy having a discussion with you and yes, the current plan is not "universal" health care. However, it is a step in that direction and with the President's words during the campaign that universal healthcare is what he really seeks, one can only see this a step number one in the road to universal healthcare in 15 to 20 years.

FWIW, as much as I hate the idea of universal healthcare, I know something needs to be done. I personally cannot think of anything that will make things better; not universal care or anything else. This plan is going to be expensive in taxes, premiums and to this country. I don't think we can afford it... I know I can't.

Not to mention the fact that it is bad for small business which means that my job is in jeopardy if it passes. The small business man cannot afford to be forced to pay for employee health coverage. Many do what they can by subsidizing the employee but to be forced to pay most of their employee's healthcare? That will be a problem.

Immie

 

[VaYank5150]

Thats a tall statement there Yank. Since I don't listen to Rush or Hannity and catch Beck once in a while, kinda hard to get their talking points doncha know.

As for being uninformed. It seems to me your the one who's uninformed if you think the Govt entitlements in this country are well run and cost effective considering the amount of waste and fraud thats been reported. Hmmmm Mayby you should get a little better informed before you start slinging stones there boyo.

No dipshit....you are the Hannities and Becks and Limpballs of the world are the only onoes calling reform UNIVERSAL healthcare. What has been proposed is NOT universal. IF you knew even an ounce of what you need to on this subject, we would not be having this conversation. Instead...stick to your talking points.

Yank,

You know I always enjoy having a discussion with you and yes, the current plan is not "universal" health care. However, it is a step in that direction and with the President's words during the campaign that universal healthcare is what he really seeks, one can only see this a step number one in the road to universal healthcare in 15 to 20 years.

FWIW, as much as I hate the idea of universal healthcare, I know something needs to be done. I personally cannot think of anything that will make things better; not universal care or anything else. This plan is going to be expensive in taxes, premiums and to this country. I don't think we can afford it... I know I can't.

Not to mention the fact that it is bad for small business which means that my job is in jeopardy if it passes. The small business man cannot afford to be forced to pay for employee health coverage. Many do what they can by subsidizing the employee but to be forced to pay most of their employee's healthcare? That will be a problem.

Immie

Thanks, Immie. At least with you I get to debate with someone who actually has done their homework on the topic at hand. That does NOT mean we have to agree. And there is also nothing wrong with disagreement.
Now, to your point about Obama wanting Universal Healthcare. IIRC, Hillary wanted Universal Healthcare, while Obama simply wanted to make sure healthcare was available and affordable to all US citizens. Hillary wanted the government to provide health coverage to all US citizens, what I consider Universal healthcare. Obama had a different approach, where he wanted all citizens to have it, but was not willing to mandate the government provide it to everyone.
As for small business. IF they cannot afford to provide for their employees, should they really be in business in the first place?

 

[Claudette]

Seems to me I explained my use of the term Universal healthcare Yank.

My family calls it that, along with a lot of other not very nice names. My Lilberal friends, and I do have them, call in the Public Option. Either way it means the same thing doncha know. Govt run healthcare. No thanks.

 

[VaYank5150]

Seems to me I explained my use of the term Universal healthcare Yank.

My family calls it that, along with a lot of other not very nice names. My Lilberal friends, and I do have them, call in the Public Option. Either way it means the same thing doncha know. Govt run healthcare. No thanks.

Do you have insurance now?

 

[Immanuel]

No dipshit....you are the Hannities and Becks and Limpballs of the world are the only onoes calling reform UNIVERSAL healthcare. What has been proposed is NOT universal. IF you knew even an ounce of what you need to on this subject, we would not be having this conversation. Instead...stick to your talking points.

Yank,

You know I always enjoy having a discussion with you and yes, the current plan is not "universal" health care. However, it is a step in that direction and with the President's words during the campaign that universal healthcare is what he really seeks, one can only see this a step number one in the road to universal healthcare in 15 to 20 years.

FWIW, as much as I hate the idea of universal healthcare, I know something needs to be done. I personally cannot think of anything that will make things better; not universal care or anything else. This plan is going to be expensive in taxes, premiums and to this country. I don't think we can afford it... I know I can't.

Not to mention the fact that it is bad for small business which means that my job is in jeopardy if it passes. The small business man cannot afford to be forced to pay for employee health coverage. Many do what they can by subsidizing the employee but to be forced to pay most of their employee's healthcare? That will be a problem.

Immie

Thanks, Immie. At least with you I get to debate with someone who actually has done their homework on the topic at hand. That does NOT mean we have to agree. And there is also nothing wrong with disagreement.
Now, to your point about Obama wanting Universal Healthcare. IIRC, Hillary wanted Universal Healthcare, while Obama simply wanted to make sure healthcare was available and affordable to all US citizens. Hillary wanted the government to provide health coverage to all US citizens, what I consider Universal healthcare. Obama had a different approach, where he wanted all citizens to have it, but was not willing to mandate the government provide it to everyone.

If I remember correctly (and since the clip is available on this site many times over and also on youtube, I will not bring it back) during the campaign President Obama told us he wanted Single Payer (government) healthcare but realized that the goal was unachievable at this point in time but that he expected it in 15-20 years. I may be wrong, but single payer translates to Government provided to me.

I don't have a better solution and the status quo is unacceptable, but I don't have to like this solution either.

[As for small business. IF they cannot afford to provide for their employees, should they really be in business in the first place?

I completely disagree. For example the company I work for, pays approximately $150,000 per year total in health insurance and charges the employees about $30,000 per year. Annually, we lose roughly $50,000. I have lobbyied with the owner that we need to increase the percentage that the employees pay... I pray that tidbit of info doesn't get out but he absolutely refuses to do that. However, I believe that I have read that employers are going to be required to pay at least 85% of employee coverage. Granted that is not a big difference for my employer, but it is still an additional increase of cost to my employer.

And no, my health insurance is not my employer's responsibility. It is my responsibility and no one elses. The fact that my employer is generous does not change that fact.

Immie

 

[VaYank5150]

Yank,

You know I always enjoy having a discussion with you and yes, the current plan is not "universal" health care. However, it is a step in that direction and with the President's words during the campaign that universal healthcare is what he really seeks, one can only see this a step number one in the road to universal healthcare in 15 to 20 years.

FWIW, as much as I hate the idea of universal healthcare, I know something needs to be done. I personally cannot think of anything that will make things better; not universal care or anything else. This plan is going to be expensive in taxes, premiums and to this country. I don't think we can afford it... I know I can't.

Not to mention the fact that it is bad for small business which means that my job is in jeopardy if it passes. The small business man cannot afford to be forced to pay for employee health coverage. Many do what they can by subsidizing the employee but to be forced to pay most of their employee's healthcare? That will be a problem.

Immie

Thanks, Immie. At least with you I get to debate with someone who actually has done their homework on the topic at hand. That does NOT mean we have to agree. And there is also nothing wrong with disagreement.
Now, to your point about Obama wanting Universal Healthcare. IIRC, Hillary wanted Universal Healthcare, while Obama simply wanted to make sure healthcare was available and affordable to all US citizens. Hillary wanted the government to provide health coverage to all US citizens, what I consider Universal healthcare. Obama had a different approach, where he wanted all citizens to have it, but was not willing to mandate the government provide it to everyone.

If I remember correctly (and since the clip is available on this site many times over and also on youtube, I will not bring it back) during the campaign President Obama told us he wanted Single Payer (government) healthcare but realized that the goal was unachievable at this point in time but that he expected it in 15-20 years. I may be wrong, but single payer translates to Government provided to me.

I don't have a better solution and the status quo is unacceptable, but I don't have to like this solution either.

[As for small business. IF they cannot afford to provide for their employees, should they really be in business in the first place?

I completely disagree. For example the company I work for, pays approximately $150,000 per year total in health insurance and charges the employees about $30,000 per year. Annually, we lose roughly $50,000. I have lobbyied with the owner that we need to increase the percentage that the employees pay... I pray that tidbit of info doesn't get out but he absolutely refuses to do that. However, I believe that I have read that employers are going to be required to pay at least 85% of employee coverage. Granted that is not a big difference for my employer, but it is still an additional increase of cost to my employer.

And no, my health insurance is not my employer's responsibility. It is my responsibility and no one elses. The fact that my employer is generous does not change that fact.

Immie

This is where our trains of thought may diverge. You look at providing health coverage as somethig your employer does to be "generous". I see healthcare being provided by my employer as another perk. Something they need to provide to be more competitive and attract and retain better talent. Much like the salaries, 401(K), etc, etc, they offer as a benefits package.

 

[Claudette]

Yes I do Yank. I work for the Brevard County Sheriffs Dept down here in Melbourne, Florida and I do have health insurance wonderfully provided by the County. Its not the best plan, 80/20 but since I have never used my benefits in my entire working life it works for me. When I wasn't covered by an employer, and believe me there have been times when I wasn't, I purchased my own insurance. Getting more expensive all the time.

 

[VaYank5150]

Yes I do Yank. I work for the Brevard County Sheriffs Dept down here in Melbourne, Florida and I do have health insurance wonderfully provided by the County. Its not the best plan, 80/20 but since I have never used my benefits in my entire working life it works for me. When I wasn't covered by an employer, and believe me there have been times when I wasn't, I purchased my own insurance. Getting more expensive all the time.

So, why are you so worried. Like me, if you have existing health coverage through your employer, this will not change and you will not be forced onto the public option?

 

[Immanuel]

Thanks, Immie. At least with you I get to debate with someone who actually has done their homework on the topic at hand. That does NOT mean we have to agree. And there is also nothing wrong with disagreement.
Now, to your point about Obama wanting Universal Healthcare. IIRC, Hillary wanted Universal Healthcare, while Obama simply wanted to make sure healthcare was available and affordable to all US citizens. Hillary wanted the government to provide health coverage to all US citizens, what I consider Universal healthcare. Obama had a different approach, where he wanted all citizens to have it, but was not willing to mandate the government provide it to everyone.

If I remember correctly (and since the clip is available on this site many times over and also on youtube, I will not bring it back) during the campaign President Obama told us he wanted Single Payer (government) healthcare but realized that the goal was unachievable at this point in time but that he expected it in 15-20 years. I may be wrong, but single payer translates to Government provided to me.

I don't have a better solution and the status quo is unacceptable, but I don't have to like this solution either.

[As for small business. IF they cannot afford to provide for their employees, should they really be in business in the first place?

I completely disagree. For example the company I work for, pays approximately $150,000 per year total in health insurance and charges the employees about $30,000 per year. Annually, we lose roughly $50,000. I have lobbyied with the owner that we need to increase the percentage that the employees pay... I pray that tidbit of info doesn't get out but he absolutely refuses to do that. However, I believe that I have read that employers are going to be required to pay at least 85% of employee coverage. Granted that is not a big difference for my employer, but it is still an additional increase of cost to my employer.

And no, my health insurance is not my employer's responsibility. It is my responsibility and no one elses. The fact that my employer is generous does not change that fact.

Immie

This is where our trains of thought may diverge. You look at providing health coverage as somethig your employer does to be "generous". I see healthcare being provided by my employer as another perk. Something they need to provide to be more competitive and attract and retain better talent. Much like the salaries, 401(K), etc, etc, they offer as a benefits package.

In that respect, I agree with you, but it is still my responsibility.

My employer is generous. But to be frank with you, I am happy to have a job. If my employer did not pay for my health insurance, I would still be working here and if I wasn't willing to work without that perk, I would be willing to bet you that there are other people out there even some I know in this industry that would snap up my job in a heart beat if I were foolish enough to let it go even if no benefits at all were offered.

Immie

 

[Claudette]

I have a nagging feeling that once there is a Public option companies will be willing to pay the fines and unload their employee into that public option.

Will a public option be cheaper or better?? Don't think so. I also have no faith in anything the Govt runs. It always ends up costing way more than predicted and ends up full of waste and fraud. Medicare and Medicaid are prime examples of that. I sure don't want to put my healthcare in the hands of the Govt. No thanks

That in a nutshell is my problem with the Public option. Also bear in mind that the first thing the Clowns in DC did was exempt themselves. That speaks volumes to me

 

[lschs77]

VaYank5150...I see you accusing a lot of other people that they are unaware of the facts of this most important issue. However, I have yet to see any facts that would support the move to a public option. Your entitled to your opinion and I would love to see your perspective....so please stop attacking other people for their opinions and just state the facts....if your right, those facts will speak for you. Thanks for commenting!

 

[VaYank5150]

I have a nagging feeling that once there is a Public option companies will be willing to pay the fines and unload their employee into that public option.

Will a public option be cheaper or better?? Don't think so. I also have no faith in anything the Govt runs. It always ends up costing way more than predicted and ends up full of waste and fraud. Medicare and Medicaid are prime examples of that. I sure don't want to put my healthcare in the hands of the Govt. No thanks

That in a nutshell is my problem with the Public option. Also bear in mind that the first thing the Clowns in DC did was exempt themselves. That speaks volumes to me

Why would it speak volumes to you? Since we both already have employer provided health insurance, we are also exempt?

 

[Immanuel]

I have a nagging feeling that once there is a Public option companies will be willing to pay the fines and unload their employee into that public option.

Will a public option be cheaper or better?? Don't think so. I also have no faith in anything the Govt runs. It always ends up costing way more than predicted and ends up full of waste and fraud. Medicare and Medicaid are prime examples of that. I sure don't want to put my healthcare in the hands of the Govt. No thanks

That in a nutshell is my problem with the Public option. Also bear in mind that the first thing the Clowns in DC did was exempt themselves. That speaks volumes to me

One thing to think about from an employee's perspective is that many many employers pay all or part of their employees health care in the manner that I described my employer does above. If an employer decides to do just as you have indicated (and that is a possibility) then an employee that was maybe paying $200 - $300 per month and the cost for a public option plan is say $1,000 per month for a family (government estimates I have heard so far, but we all know about government estimates) then an employee's cost will go up 3 to 5 times what it is today. Honestly, I can't afford that, but I will be forced to pay for it and since I make too much money to qualify for a credit, I'm screwed, by President Obama and Congress!

Immie