Is this country really what our founding fathers dreamed of?

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
No, that's just what has happened in the past due to nothing more than greedy, selfish leaders as you would be.

Nope. I would be a great leader. I would be so lazy I'd outsource most functions to private industry. Problems solved. Career politicians would hate me, so I'd never make it high enough in system to get enough power to implement my massive government cutbacks, but If I was just plopped down tomorrow into the white house, I'd have an impact, and it would be good for the country.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
You know you wanted to say that the rich person wanting more is the only justified one... Don't give me that crap. All of your views on this issue answer the question for themselves.

You read my mind. You should join the circus, freak.

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Look I know that many people in our society don't deserve to have money and have no motivation to get the kind of money that we have, but there are so many people in America that are paying all kind of money for this and that and they may be 100 times the person that 50 cent or Michael Jordan are, but just keep on going having very little.

Now, it's true that education and motivation can get you far, but someone has to have the lowest paying jobs. And by lowest paying I mean that it's lower than it should be. And the salary is low because it is directly affected by prices of goods that the employer if this person with the lowest salary must buy. If the goods were cheaper, then the emplyer could pay this person more money. I'm not talking about taking anybody's money away from them. The only thing that does that is these outrageuos prices.

But I have one last question for this today: Do you think that our economy today is as fair is can possibly be?

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Nope. I would be a great leader. I would be so lazy I'd outsource most functions to private industry. Problems solved. Career politicians would hate me, so I'd never make it high enough in system to get enough power to implement my massive government cutbacks, but If I was just plopped down tomorrow into the white house, I'd have an impact, and it would be good for the country.

Yea, good for only the rich. That's what your views say to me.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
Look I know that many people in our society don't deserve to have money and have no motivation to get the kind of money that we have, but there are so many people in America that are paying all kind of money for this and that and they may be 100 times the person that 50 cent or Michael Jordan are, but just keep on going having very little.

Now, it's true that education and motivation can get you far, but someone has to have the lowest paying jobs. And by lowest paying I mean that it's lower than it should be. And the salary is low because it is directly affected by prices of goods that the employer if this person with the lowest salary must buy. If the goods were cheaper, then the emplyer could pay this person more money. I'm not talking about taking anybody's money away from them. The only thing that does that is these outrageuos prices.

But I have one last question for this today: Do you think that our economy today is as fair is can possibly be?

The hypercompetitiveness of free markets actually drives prices down. Were you born today? Happy Birthday?

More or less. It's a fair system. i would like to see it made easier to do things like incorporations, taxes and all the red tape. There's a learning curve of the principles of business, accounting, incorporation, and contracts that's a real barrier to entry if you don't take the time. I think we should start teaching this stuff from elementary school. Could you imagine the commie teacher's union? They'd freak out.

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
The hypercompetitiveness of free markets actually drives prices down? Were you born today? Happy Birthday?

Well there's sure a monopoly on tickets to go see Michael Jordan!

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

A lot of companies make it look like that, but they are simply competing over a high price if it's not already a monopoly.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
Well there's sure a monopoly on tickets to go see Michael Jordan!

Ok. Ok. I guess you win. Down with America!

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Well I have had enough of this endless bibkering for one day. Your dominant view will always be greed, and mine will always be sympathy (I know I talk about changes that will lower the salaries of the big guys, but they will still be the richest in the country if you look at it that way). Good luck with your money. Don't spend it all in one place.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
DUH! It's first come, first serve like it is now. Once the stadium is full, then they don't sell any more tickets. That's the way it is isn't it?

Hell I konw this story. I spend a month of my year in Ukraine waiting in line.

I honestly waited in line for something as basic as bread for an hour, they ran out on me. Tough if even the basics of life are sold out, isn't it?

All the citizens had long learned to hoard goods and then sell them for a fair market price. If you didn't happen to know the right people, or chance to find a store who recieved stock and get in line as the first 20-30 for something highly valued you would certainly expect to enrich the wealth of another based on a second market. I had shop this way in a socialist market, and let me tell you the time and effort wasted over these lines and secondary market is a sick joke.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
Well I have had enough of this endless bibkering for one day. Your dominant view will always be greed, and mine will always be sympathy (I know I talk about changes that will lower the salaries of the big guys, but they will still be the richest in the country if you look at it that way). Good luck with your money. Don't spend it all in one place.

No. The changes you're talking about render all citizens slaves to the state. You're an ignorant and dangerous fool. Have a nice day!

 

[AtlantaWalter]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
Well there's sure a monopoly on tickets to go see Michael Jordan!

What would happen if they gave a game and nobody came to buy tickets? Do you think a boycott for a game or two might getbtheir attention?

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
No. The changes you're talking about render all citizens slaves to the state.

And how exactly does it do that? I didn't say we had to change our government/economy; I said we had to make things more fair.

The problem here is "only" that doing this would corrupt conservative ways of life. Conservative greed, selfishness, and mindlessness is overwhelming. Conservatives care only about the rich and no one else. Newsflash, most people in America are average Joe's just trying to get through life, and these people are far more valuable to society than any quarterback or rap star making millions. People pay to see them, yes, but these are figures we could do without if need be.

This is CERTAINLY NOT what our founding fathers dreamed of when they created this country from scratch. It once was a place of fairness, safety, and liberty. As time goes on, classes become more defined and gaps between these classes widen. Conseratives are okay with it. Hey, the richest of the rich are getting richer. Hooray!

Conseratives really need to get their priorities in order. The rich and their money aren't the only thing to this country. Fairness is something that many deserve and aren't getting it. If you refuse to see that, then you are the only fool here and are leading to the demise of this country...

 

[eric]

Vinnie you are making one fundemental error in your thinking, most conservatives are not rich !! In fact this country is at best split 50/50 conservative/liberal, do you really believe there are that many rich people. By the way the Rap star and Football star are more than likely not conservative but liberal, though rich, just take a look at Hollywood and tell me these people are conservative.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually if you think about it Everyone in America is rich. If you have a change of underwear, two or more pairs of shoes, and can eat 6 consecutive meals, then you are in the richest 5% of the world. Which means that so called poor in this country are living like kings compared to the rest of the world.

 

[AtlantaWalter]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Actually if you think about it Everyone in America is rich. If you have a change of underwear, two or more pairs of shoes, and can eat 6 consecutive meals, then you are in the richest 5% of the world. Which means that so called poor in this country are living like kings compared to the rest of the world.

Unfortunately, for the rest of the world, this is quite true. We sometimes forget just how lucky we are as Americans. I try to remember each day how fortunate I am; I have my health, a wife of 25 years who loves me, and a son in med school, all in the greatest country in the world. I am just thankful I don't live in a country where I have to carry an AK47 with me to go to the store or where I have to worry about how I am going to feed my family tomorrow.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie
And how exactly does it do that? I didn't say we had to change our government/economy; I said we had to make things more fair.

How do you make things more fair without changing the government or economy? You should run on this slogan "Fairness without change." That sounds great.

The problem here is "only" that doing this would corrupt conservative ways of life. Conservative greed, selfishness, and mindlessness is overwhelming. Conservatives care only about the rich and no one else. Newsflash, most people in America are average Joe's just trying to get through life, and these people are far more valuable to society than any quarterback or rap star making millions. People pay to see them, yes, but these are figures we could do without if need be.

This is CERTAINLY NOT what our founding fathers dreamed of when they created this country from scratch. It once was a place of fairness, safety, and liberty. As time goes on, classes become more defined and gaps between these classes widen. Conseratives are okay with it. Hey, the richest of the rich are getting richer. Hooray!

Conseratives really need to get their priorities in order. The rich and their money aren't the only thing to this country. Fairness is something that many deserve and aren't getting it. If you refuse to see that, then you are the only fool here and are leading to the demise of this country...

The rest of this was just a tired, played out, class warfare argument. The fairest I've seen is simply letting people survive by the effectiveness of their own wiles, without the use of force or fraud against other citizens. This is the best deal society could ever hope to offer. What your describing, dictating all market prices, would utterly destroy the economy for EVERYBODY, not just the stinkin' rich.
You need to get your priorities in order. Learn what intellectual honesty is. Check out common sense. Become familiar with standard reasoning.

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Actually if you think about it Everyone in America is rich. If you have a change of underwear, two or more pairs of shoes, and can eat 6 consecutive meals, then you are in the richest 5% of the world. Which means that so called poor in this country are living like kings compared to the rest of the world.

Oh I completely understand that. This still is one of the best countries, but you have to look at this from another angle. If I am so rich, what about all these celebrities. If I should be so grateful, what about them. These people make more money in a year than I'll ever make. All of you always make it out like the less fortunate in this country are the ones that are so selfish. I believe that that "it is" more justified for a poor person to want more as opposed to a millionaire who has it all. That's almost common sense.

As for being in the top 5% richest in the world, even that proves the gap between the rich and the poor is much larger throughout the whole world than just in this country. Nevertheless, these people are still pulling in the cash. And I know that not all conservatives are rich, but they mostly all take the stand of defending the rich. I feel it more natural to defend those who CAN'T put the money where their mouth is. No, I could care less about those who aren't deserving of a better lifestyle: you bums, thugs, criminals. Though, I will defend honest Americans just getting put down by the increasingly unfairness of the system--unfairness that never used to be there. Hence, the title of this thread.

 

[wonderwench]

CV,

If you don't like the entertainers and sports figures, don't but their products. But if others do like them, they have the right to support them.

The alternative to allowing the free market to decide is centralized government planning. If you think the way things are now are bad, you have no idea how awful it could be.

For your own sake, I suggest not worrying about someone else being better off than you, even if you feel they don't deserve it. That is a very sad way to live.

 

[Cousin Vinnie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
How do you make things more fair without changing the government or economy? You should run on this slogan "Fairness without change." That sounds great.


The rest of this was just a tired, played out, class warfare argument. The fairest I've seen is simply letting people survive by the effectiveness of their own wiles, without the use of force or fraud against other citizens. This is the best deal society could ever hope to offer. What your describing, dictating all market prices, would utterly destroy the economy for EVERYBODY, not just the stinkin' rich.
You need to get your priorities in order. Learn what intellectual honesty is. Check out common sense. Become familiar with standard reasoning.

Fraud against other citizens? You keep bringing this up. I never in this thread said that I wanted to take these people's money off of them or cheat them out of it. Lowering prices isn't fraud.

As for destroying the economy for everyone. You mention this a lot also, but you haven't explained it one bit. All I suggested is lowering unnecessarily high prices on goods. Many things are fairly priced in proportion to the value of a dollar (in other words, it was once much cheaper years ago, but it's a fair price in proportion to the average salary of today). But, there are things that are priced high for the benefit of none other than the finacial state of that company. Tell me how lowering prices (which like I said--"SOME PRICES ARE ALREADY AS LOW AS THEY CAN GO") would make the tremendous impact on society like you say it will? I'm not trying to get cocky with you, but I seriously don't understand how that would happen. Some prices are as low as they can go. Why can't all prices be this way?