Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

[G.T.]

At some point theists went from trying to use logic to prove God exists to lying about him visiting them. Why did they start lying? Maybe your arguments don't hold water? Because I have heard many scientists talk about the possible reasons why our universe is here, how long it too, the process, the evolution, the mind blowing amount of time that existed from when the big bang happened and us puny humans appeared on earth. Were Dionosaurs gods mistake?

Anyways, you are trying to prove that "something" created all this. Ok maybe something did. Why does that something have to be a god? And why the lies? Why lie and say god visited your ancestors? I know! It's because will all 7 "truths" you keep putting out there as proofs, even though they aint, even with all those 7 points, that still doesn't prove a god that cares about you put you here, cares about you and is waiting for you in heaven. That's a dumb pathetic humans wishful thinking. Grow up. And point number two is wrong:

Complexity/Order proves god exists.
The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Bull! I've already falsified that rash of nonsense on this very thread! The atheist's claim about what the Teleological Argument asserts is utterly false, a straw man. Let me know when you're ready to deal with the actual thrust of the argument. And you pathological lying about the nature of "The Seven Things" is a straw man.

Tell me something, little man, why do you always attack straw men? Don't you have the balls to face the real article and refute that? Of course not, because the real deals would compel you to state the obvious.

As usual, dipduckdodge, and ad hom.

 

[Justin Davis]

There you go imagining things that aren't real again. The classical proofs are evidence on top of evidence, and logical proofs are . . . logical proofs. Logic is used to prove or disproves things, and according to the proofs of organic logic, the laws of thought, collectively, is God's logic, but to understand why that's necessarily true in organic logic, one must be willing to think the matter through while being intellectually honest and consistent.

"The Seven Things," which they all know to be true, really, except for maybe Hollie, who is not quite right in the head, are logically and objectively true for all with a sound, developmentally mature mind! There're axioms of human cognition, not proofs, except the Transcendental Argument (#6), which is an axiomatic proof for God's existence in organic logic. The denial of the latter's universal ultimacy, though not entirely unreasonable for scientific reasons, maybe, sort of, remains contradictory or paradoxical, given that one must hold that all other a priori knowledge is universal, but not the God axiom, strangely enough, and then go on to do science, again, strangely enough, using the very same kind of a priori knowledge, namely, mathematical axioms, postulates and theorems. Hmm.

But these objective facts of human cognition regarding the imperatives of the problems of existence and origin, including the inherent proofs of the I AM and the ultimate nature of the laws of thought, are intellectually apprehended. The full realization/experience of the divine reality behind them requires a leap of faith based on their testimony, but the divine reality itself is neither the proof nor the evidence, but the ultimate ground or substance of both. And faith is the evidence of the knower's belief in the testimony given.

(In the meantime, the Bible, as an aside, you understand, tells us that God has in fact proven to mankind, with rational and empirical evidence, that He exists via the very logic that is universally apparent to us all, as it is universally impressed on the soul and bioneurologically hardwired.)

The above nonsense is nothing more than the same goofy slogans and cliches' that have been cult and pasted across multiple pages, multiple times.

Really, Bunky, how sad for you that even after your arguments have been thoroughly refuted, you're reduced to cutting and pasting the same nonsense in repetitive fashion post after post.

Yeah. I'm going to have to cut you off too.

Here are my 7

1, Us existing doesn't prove a god exists.
2. Science says the cosmological order does not prove a god exists.
3. You would have to meet god to "know" he exists and no one has ever met him. And you would have to be a god yourself to "know" that no god(s) exist.
4. If your all powerful god existed yes he would be amazing.
5. Theists can't prove god exists.
6. The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

Okay, so we have you down on #1, #2, #3 and #4 of the origin truths right off the top, and at the same time we have you saying all kinds of false things.

Your #2 is of course false. Nothing can be asserted about God at all by science, and science doesn't prove or disprove things.

Your #3 contradicts your #2, as you simultaneously place yourself above God to make absolute statements about God, which means you assume His existence in order to tell us things about His experiences with others and make the absurd statement that a creature, which presupposes God's existence, would have to turn into to God, which presuppose God's existence again, in order to know that he's no longer a creature but the Creator. That's weird.

Your #5 is a false dilemma because theists don't have to prove God exists at all or even prove He's exists for Him to exist.

Your #6 contradicts the fact that you necessarily acknowledged that you can't logically eliminate God's existence in your various incoherencies.

And because you contradict yourself in your #1 by conceding that you exist, you necessarily hold in organic logic that God (the Creator) does exist. In others words, you say you exist but your existence doesn't prove that the Creator, Who by definition and necessity would have to exist in order to have created you, exists after all. Hmm. That's doesn't work. So we know that we have you down on #6 of the origin truths too.

So the only one we're missing out of the origin truths for you is #5: Science cannot verify or falsify God's existence. Since that's true, we'll just put you down for that one and chalk you up for all seven of the original truths.

See how that works?

Science is an exercise in falsifiability. Unlike religious dogma, which presumes the truth, the scientific method is a self correcting process, an ever sharpening blade. The models used by science to explain observations and make predictions are simply the ‘most correct’ at the time. The greatest skepticism should always be reserved for inflexible positions whose proponents insist that they and their assertions are above question and examination.

Every conceivable argument, including yours, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Why do we care? Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

And “No belief held by one man, however seemingly trivial the belief, and however obscure the believer, is ever actually insignificant or without its effect on the fate of mankind” – William Clifford

Say God doesn't exist again.

 

[G.T.]

Say God doesn't exist again.

And equally as ridiculous within the confines of current human knowledge, say god does exist again

 

[Justin Davis]

At some point theists went from trying to use logic to prove God exists to lying about him visiting them. Why did they start lying? Maybe your arguments don't hold water? Because I have heard many scientists talk about the possible reasons why our universe is here, how long it too, the process, the evolution, the mind blowing amount of time that existed from when the big bang happened and us puny humans appeared on earth. Were Dionosaurs gods mistake?

Anyways, you are trying to prove that "something" created all this. Ok maybe something did. Why does that something have to be a god? And why the lies? Why lie and say god visited your ancestors? I know! It's because will all 7 "truths" you keep putting out there as proofs, even though they aint, even with all those 7 points, that still doesn't prove a god that cares about you put you here, cares about you and is waiting for you in heaven. That's a dumb pathetic humans wishful thinking. Grow up. And point number two is wrong:

Complexity/Order proves god exists.
The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Bull! I've already falsified that rash of nonsense on this very thread! The atheist's claim about what the Teleological Argument asserts is utterly false, a straw man. Let me know when you're ready to deal with the actual thrust of the argument. And you pathological lying about the nature of "The Seven Things" is a straw man.

Tell me something, little man, why do you always attack straw men? Don't you have the balls to face the real article and refute that? Of course not, because the real deals would compel you to state the obvious.

As usual, dipduckdodge, and ad hom.

That's right. Tells us the truth about the seven things again. Say God doesn't exist again. God? Who said anything about God? Oh, that's right, the atheist did, something about the idea that's obviously in the atheist's head not having real existence behind it. Where's that idea at? Gee wiz, it's in the atheist's head. How did that happen?

 

[DriftingSand]

True (since I've never heard of a "gawd"). However, I do believe that God exists in the Heavenly realm. We know of His existence because:

Romans 1:20, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Jeremiah 51:15, ""He made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding."

And others, by happenstance of geography and culture, will have competing gawds as inventions of men who wrote competing versions of "holy texts".

We know their gawds are true, thus your gawds are not.

True. There are many, many copycat religions but one thing all of them have in common is their belief that there is a power greater than mankind and the universe. There is a truth to be known. One Truth. There is only one way by which mankind came to exist and you, Hollie, don't know that Way (though you're high on your personal speculation).

You should learn some history regarding the invention of christianity.

It's interesting that you would use the term copycat religions when that precisely describes christianity.

I think where you falter is in the futile attempt to un-link your gods from all the earlier human inventions of gods.

But second, you seem to be unable to conceptually wrap your head around the evolutionary origin of the Abrahamic faiths. For some odd reason, you are unable to draw the necessary conceptual conclusion that what is Islam evolved from Christianity, in the same way that Christianity evolved from Judaism, and Judaism evolved from earlier Canaanite polytheism.

You seem to have further conveniently forgotten the Canaanite pagan polytheism from which Judaism (and hence all the following Abrahamic faiths) originally evolved.

If you insist on trying to un-stick the religions from which yours evolved, you cannot fail to embrace its pagan roots without justifying charges of special pleading. Your superstitions regarding gods have done nothing but to replace superstitions. Are you suggesting that when the Greek gods replaced the more ancient Lares of Rome, that too was not an evolution of religion?

Sorry you're so easily duped by so-called "historians" but the "Inventor" of Christianity is Jesus Christ. He was born to a virgin; He was God in the flesh; He learned the ways of men to show how to overcome sin; He taught wise and true tenets concerning man's relationship to Himself (God) and fellow men; He was murdered by folks like you who hated Him and His teachings; He shed His blood to pay for your sins and mine; He died and was buried; He rose from the grave three days later (the Temple made without hands); and He rose in triumphant glory to take His throne in the Kingdom. He will return with His angels to clean up man's mess. He will judge the souls of all mankind. Those who accept (accepted) Him will live for eternity in His Kingdom while those who reject Him will be sent to hell.

There's your history lesson. It can be found in the most read book in mankind's history, the Bible.

Umm. Sorry, but you obviously have never studied christianity. Paul was the inventor of Christianity.

Pretty cool how you conceded the evolution of Christianity from earlier pagan polytheism. Those earlier roots are even evident in the polytheistic nature of your three gods.

Why do you think Paul, in his invention of Christianity, needed to steal the theology of Judaism and even stole Hebrew scripture before assigning the polytheistic christian gods?

Here's Peter, not Paul, referring to followers of Christ as "Christians": 1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

At some point theists went from trying to use logic to prove God exists to lying about him visiting them. Why did they start lying? Maybe your arguments don't hold water? Because I have heard many scientists talk about the possible reasons why our universe is here, how long it too, the process, the evolution, the mind blowing amount of time that existed from when the big bang happened and us puny humans appeared on earth. Were Dionosaurs gods mistake?

Anyways, you are trying to prove that "something" created all this. Ok maybe something did. Why does that something have to be a god? And why the lies? Why lie and say god visited your ancestors? I know! It's because will all 7 "truths" you keep putting out there as proofs, even though they aint, even with all those 7 points, that still doesn't prove a god that cares about you put you here, cares about you and is waiting for you in heaven. That's a dumb pathetic humans wishful thinking. Grow up. And point number two is wrong:

Complexity/Order proves god exists.
The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Bull! I've already falsified that rash of nonsense on this very thread! The atheist's claim about what the Teleological Argument asserts is utterly false, a straw man. Let me know when you're ready to deal with the actual thrust of the argument. And you pathological lying about the nature of "The Seven Things" is a straw man.

Tell me something, little man, why do you always attack straw men? Don't you have the balls to face the real article and refute that? Of course not, because the real deals would compel you to state the obvious.

As usual, dipduckdodge, and ad hom.

That's right. Tells us the truth about the seven things again. Say God doesn't exist again. God? Who said anything about God? Oh, that's right, the atheist did, something about the idea that's obviously in the atheist's head not having real existence behind it. Where's that idea at? Gee wiz, it's in the atheist's head. How did that happen?

Justin, just copy and paste "The Seven Things" each time.

 

[G.T.]

At some point theists went from trying to use logic to prove God exists to lying about him visiting them. Why did they start lying? Maybe your arguments don't hold water? Because I have heard many scientists talk about the possible reasons why our universe is here, how long it too, the process, the evolution, the mind blowing amount of time that existed from when the big bang happened and us puny humans appeared on earth. Were Dionosaurs gods mistake?

Anyways, you are trying to prove that "something" created all this. Ok maybe something did. Why does that something have to be a god? And why the lies? Why lie and say god visited your ancestors? I know! It's because will all 7 "truths" you keep putting out there as proofs, even though they aint, even with all those 7 points, that still doesn't prove a god that cares about you put you here, cares about you and is waiting for you in heaven. That's a dumb pathetic humans wishful thinking. Grow up. And point number two is wrong:

Complexity/Order proves god exists.
The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Bull! I've already falsified that rash of nonsense on this very thread! The atheist's claim about what the Teleological Argument asserts is utterly false, a straw man. Let me know when you're ready to deal with the actual thrust of the argument. And you pathological lying about the nature of "The Seven Things" is a straw man.

Tell me something, little man, why do you always attack straw men? Don't you have the balls to face the real article and refute that? Of course not, because the real deals would compel you to state the obvious.

As usual, dipduckdodge, and ad hom.

That's right. Tells us the truth about the seven things again. Say God doesn't exist again. God? Who said anything about God? Oh, that's right, the atheist did, something about the idea that's obviously in the atheist's head not having real existence behind it. Where's that idea at? Gee wiz, it's in the atheist's head. How did that happen?

More reading comprehension issues 'lil plumber kid?

"say god doesnt exist again."

Again?

Again?

Never said it once.



Weren't you the sniveling little charlatan running around like a toddler calling people liars all over this thread?

Your character attributes as a human being are terrible. Surely if there's a christian god, you're going to have to answer for these little ocd quirks you seem to have. Your negative character is disgusting.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Say God doesn't exist again.

And equally as ridiculous within the confines of current human knowledge, say god does exist again

The Seven Things
1. We exist!
2. The cosmological order exists!
3. The idea that God exists as the Creator of everything else that exists, exists in our minds! So the possibility that God exists cannot be logically ruled out!
4. If God does exist, He would necessarily be, logically, a Being of unparalleled greatness!
5. Currently, science cannot verify whether or not God exists!
6. It is not logically possible to say or think that God (the Creator) doesn't exist, whether He actually exists outside the logic of our minds or not (See Posts 2599 and 2600)!
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

[

Justin, your facts of logic are not facts of logic, at least what you glean from them. It is presupper bullshit.

In logic, you cannot make a proof if your premises are not absolute.

The premise 'god created knowledge' is not absolute because:

1. Existence hasn't been proven to have been created.
2. Knowledge hasn't been proven to have been created, and there been shown no rational dismissal of 'existence before sentience.'




Want to see who's been dipping, ducking, and dodging? OK. Pony up. Explain to the room how 'god created knowledge' can be universally accepted (axiomatic) when the above two points have not been ruled out and when so many atheists and agnostics do exist.





Or, keep on with the tired ad hom crutch as we know you will.

There's a reason for that. Vampires don't see their reflection

Presupper dipduckdodge

presupper, dipduckdodge.[/QUOTE]


The Seven Things
1. We exist!
2. The cosmological order exists!
3. The idea that God exists as the Creator of everything else that exists, exists in our minds! So the possibility that God exists cannot be logically ruled out!
4. If God does exist, He would necessarily be, logically, a Being of unparalleled greatness!
5. Currently, science cannot verify whether or not God exists!
6. It is not logically possible to say or think that God (the Creator) doesn't exist, whether He actually exists outside the logic of our minds or not (See Posts 2599 and 2600)!
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

 

[G.T.]

Justin, your "facts" of logic are not facts of logic, at least what you glean from them. It is presupper bullshit.

In logic, you cannot make a proof if your premises are not absolute.

The premise 'god created knowledge' is not absolute because:

1. Existence hasn't been proven to have been created.
2. Knowledge hasn't been proven to have been created, and there been shown no rational dismissal of 'existence before sentience.'




Want to see who's been dipping, ducking, and dodging? OK. Pony up. Explain to the room how 'god created knowledge' can be universally accepted (axiomatic) when the above two points have not been ruled out and when so many atheists and agnostics do exist.




I will also have this copy paste ready. Hide.

 

[Justin Davis]

Justin, your "facts" of logic are not facts of logic, at least what you glean from them. It is presupper bullshit.

In logic, you cannot make a proof if your premises are not absolute.

The premise 'god created knowledge' is not absolute because:

1. Existence hasn't been proven to have been created.
2. Knowledge hasn't been proven to have been created, and there been shown no rational dismissal of 'existence before sentience.'




Want to see who's been dipping, ducking, and dodging? OK. Pony up. Explain to the room how 'god created knowledge' can be universally accepted (axiomatic) when the above two points have not been ruled out and when so many atheists and agnostics do exist.




I will also have this copy paste ready. Hide.

The Seven Things
1. We exist!
2. The cosmological order exists!
3. The idea that God exists as the Creator of everything else that exists, exists in our minds! So the possibility that God exists cannot be logically ruled out!
4. If God does exist, He would necessarily be, logically, a Being of unparalleled greatness!
5. Currently, science cannot verify whether or not God exists!
6. It is not logically possible to say or think that God (the Creator) doesn't exist, whether He actually exists outside the logic of our minds or not (See Posts 2599 and 2600)!
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

 

[DriftingSand]

You forgot to add supernaturalism and gawds inhabiting magic spirit realms.

True (since I've never heard of a "gawd"). However, I do believe that God exists in the Heavenly realm. We know of His existence because:

Romans 1:20, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Jeremiah 51:15, ""He made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding."

And others, by happenstance of geography and culture, will have competing gawds as inventions of men who wrote competing versions of "holy texts".

We know their gawds are true, thus your gawds are not.

True. There are many, many copycat religions but one thing all of them have in common is their belief that there is a power greater than mankind and the universe. There is a truth to be known. One Truth. There is only one way by which mankind came to exist and you, Hollie, don't know that Way (though you're high on your personal speculation).

You should learn some history regarding the invention of christianity.

It's interesting that you would use the term copycat religions when that precisely describes christianity.

I think where you falter is in the futile attempt to un-link your gods from all the earlier human inventions of gods.

But second, you seem to be unable to conceptually wrap your head around the evolutionary origin of the Abrahamic faiths. For some odd reason, you are unable to draw the necessary conceptual conclusion that what is Islam evolved from Christianity, in the same way that Christianity evolved from Judaism, and Judaism evolved from earlier Canaanite polytheism.

You seem to have further conveniently forgotten the Canaanite pagan polytheism from which Judaism (and hence all the following Abrahamic faiths) originally evolved.

If you insist on trying to un-stick the religions from which yours evolved, you cannot fail to embrace its pagan roots without justifying charges of special pleading. Your superstitions regarding gods have done nothing but to replace superstitions. Are you suggesting that when the Greek gods replaced the more ancient Lares of Rome, that too was not an evolution of religion?

I'm not going to worry about these brainwashed fools. Think about the younger generation today who for the first time are questioning all this. At least they have the internet. I remember when I was young all I had was my friends, family and society telling me god is real, god is real, god is real. I didn't know one atheist growing up. No one questioned god. Not out loud anyways. So growing up all I was told was either believe or go to hell and I didn't have something like this to look at before deciding. Why there is no god I wish I did. It would have saved me years of debating it in my head. So glad I let that shit go.

Oh yea, another benefit we have today is cable tv. Back when I was growing up, they didn't have the Science Channel or other cable channels that might present the atheists side. For example the Cosmos.

The number of Christ's true followers has ALWAYS been small in number. Broad is the path that leads to destruction while narrow is the path that leads to righteousness and God's Kingdom. A healthy tree needs the dead wood pruned out. Quality over quantity. One shouldn't become a Christian because it's the popular thing to do but because he/she was called by the Holy Spirit. Persecution of Christians is a biblical prophecy and promise so it comes as no surprise that "easy-believism" is falling out of vogue and the "summertime" believers are leaving in droves. Let them go!

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't know one atheist growing up. No one questioned god. Not out loud anyways.

Perhaps that is why you and I see things so differently. Growing up, my grandfather and uncle were atheists. I married an atheist from a family of atheists. There were also Catholics and Protestants in my family, with plenty of views and perspectives of God. And, from the beginning, I knew atheists were good people with solid thoughts.

 

[G.T.]

The Seven Things
1. We exist!
2. The cosmological order exists!
3. The idea that God exists as the Creator of everything else that exists, exists in our minds! So the possibility that God exists cannot be logically ruled out!
4. If God does exist, He would necessarily be, logically, a Being of unparalleled greatness!
5. Currently, science cannot verify whether or not God exists!
6. It is not logically possible to say or think that God (the Creator) doesn't exist, whether He actually exists outside the logic of our minds or not (See Posts 2599 and 2600)!
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

Presupper in 3 d.

Dip, duck dodge.

Paste:

In logic, you cannot make a proof if your premises are not absolute.

The premise 'god created knowledge' is not absolute because:

1. Existence hasn't been proven to have been created.
2. Knowledge hasn't been proven to have been created, and there's been shown no rational dismissal of 'existence before sentience.'




Want to see who's been dipping, ducking, and dodging? OK. Pony up. Explain to the room how 'god created knowledge' can be universally accepted (axiomatic) when the above two points have not been ruled out and when so many atheists and agnostics do exist.




I will also have this copy paste ready. Hide.

 

[Justin Davis]

At some point theists went from trying to use logic to prove God exists to lying about him visiting them. Why did they start lying? Maybe your arguments don't hold water? Because I have heard many scientists talk about the possible reasons why our universe is here, how long it too, the process, the evolution, the mind blowing amount of time that existed from when the big bang happened and us puny humans appeared on earth. Were Dionosaurs gods mistake?

Anyways, you are trying to prove that "something" created all this. Ok maybe something did. Why does that something have to be a god? And why the lies? Why lie and say god visited your ancestors? I know! It's because will all 7 "truths" you keep putting out there as proofs, even though they aint, even with all those 7 points, that still doesn't prove a god that cares about you put you here, cares about you and is waiting for you in heaven. That's a dumb pathetic humans wishful thinking. Grow up. And point number two is wrong:

Complexity/Order proves god exists.
The Teleological argument, or Argument from Design, is a non sequitur. Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organization and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

Bull! I've already falsified that rash of nonsense on this very thread! The atheist's claim about what the Teleological Argument asserts is utterly false, a straw man. Let me know when you're ready to deal with the actual thrust of the argument. And you pathological lying about the nature of "The Seven Things" is a straw man.

Tell me something, little man, why do you always attack straw men? Don't you have the balls to face the real article and refute that? Of course not, because the real deals would compel you to state the obvious.

As usual, dipduckdodge, and ad hom.

That's right. Tells us the truth about the seven things again. Say God doesn't exist again. God? Who said anything about God? Oh, that's right, the atheist did, something about the idea that's obviously in the atheist's head not having real existence behind it. Where's that idea at? Gee wiz, it's in the atheist's head. How did that happen?

Justin, just copy and paste "The Seven Things" each time.

Okay.

But Fox will say we're being irreverent. Actually, I think she needs the seven things too. She doesn't seem to be aware of them and what they mean.

 

[Justin Davis]

I didn't know one atheist growing up. No one questioned god. Not out loud anyways.

Perhaps that is why you and I see things so differently. Growing up, my grandfather and uncle were atheists. I married an atheist from a family of atheists. There were also Catholics and Protestants in my family, with plenty of views and perspectives of God. And, from the beginning, I knew atheists were good people with solid thoughts.

Atheists have solid thoughts? Since when?

"The fool says in his heart that there is no God" (King David, Psalms).

 

[G.T.]

Okay.

this fool is down to following direct orders and everything

oh man

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't know one atheist growing up. No one questioned god. Not out loud anyways.

Perhaps that is why you and I see things so differently. Growing up, my grandfather and uncle were atheists. I married an atheist from a family of atheists. There were also Catholics and Protestants in my family, with plenty of views and perspectives of God. And, from the beginning, I knew atheists were good people with solid thoughts.

Atheists have solid thoughts? Since when?

From the time they determined right from wrong, good from evil, and that a lot can be learned/gleaned from the world and surrounding universe.

 

[Justin Davis]

The above nonsense is nothing more than the same goofy slogans and cliches' that have been cult and pasted across multiple pages, multiple times.

Really, Bunky, how sad for you that even after your arguments have been thoroughly refuted, you're reduced to cutting and pasting the same nonsense in repetitive fashion post after post.

Yeah. I'm going to have to cut you off too.

Here are my 7

1, Us existing doesn't prove a god exists.
2. Science says the cosmological order does not prove a god exists.
3. You would have to meet god to "know" he exists and no one has ever met him. And you would have to be a god yourself to "know" that no god(s) exist.
4. If your all powerful god existed yes he would be amazing.
5. Theists can't prove god exists.
6. The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.
7. All six of the above things are objectively, universally and logically true for human knowers/thinkers!

Okay, so we have you down on #1, #2, #3 and #4 of the origin truths right off the top, and at the same time we have you saying all kinds of false things.

Your #2 is of course false. Nothing can be asserted about God at all by science, and science doesn't prove or disprove things.

Your #3 contradicts your #2, as you simultaneously place yourself above God to make absolute statements about God, which means you assume His existence in order to tell us things about His experiences with others and make the absurd statement that a creature, which presupposes God's existence, would have to turn into to God, which presuppose God's existence again, in order to know that he's no longer a creature but the Creator. That's weird.

Your #5 is a false dilemma because theists don't have to prove God exists at all or even prove He's exists for Him to exist.

Your #6 contradicts the fact that you necessarily acknowledged that you can't logically eliminate God's existence in your various incoherencies.

And because you contradict yourself in your #1 by conceding that you exist, you necessarily hold in organic logic that God (the Creator) does exist. In others words, you say you exist but your existence doesn't prove that the Creator, Who by definition and necessity would have to exist in order to have created you, exists after all. Hmm. That's doesn't work. So we know that we have you down on #6 of the origin truths too.

So the only one we're missing out of the origin truths for you is #5: Science cannot verify or falsify God's existence. Since that's true, we'll just put you down for that one and chalk you up for all seven of the original truths.

See how that works?

Science is an exercise in falsifiability. Unlike religious dogma, which presumes the truth, the scientific method is a self correcting process, an ever sharpening blade. The models used by science to explain observations and make predictions are simply the ‘most correct’ at the time. The greatest skepticism should always be reserved for inflexible positions whose proponents insist that they and their assertions are above question and examination.

Every conceivable argument, including yours, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

Why do we care? Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

And “No belief held by one man, however seemingly trivial the belief, and however obscure the believer, is ever actually insignificant or without its effect on the fate of mankind” – William Clifford

Science is the worst thing that ever happened to you. It is used as an excuse for you to remain ignorant. It enables you to disbelieve what you instinctively know is true. It is your hiding place, your 'safe harbor' from broader intellectual thought. You pervert science for your own purposes and assume science speaks for your banality. You've forged science into a weapon of war against religion and the religious.

In short, you are a much lesser human being because of science. While science has brought mankind many wondrous discoveries, it has contributed to your personal devolution. Science lifted man out of the Dark Ages but has relegated you to the status of a monkey. You would have ended up a better human being had you never heard of science.

While I get what you're saying and all and you're right, the only science sillybobo knows, just like Hollie, is pseudoscience. Even this plumber knows more about science than they do.

 

[G.T.]

I didn't know one atheist growing up. No one questioned god. Not out loud anyways.

Perhaps that is why you and I see things so differently. Growing up, my grandfather and uncle were atheists. I married an atheist from a family of atheists. There were also Catholics and Protestants in my family, with plenty of views and perspectives of God. And, from the beginning, I knew atheists were good people with solid thoughts.

Atheists have solid thoughts? Since when?

From the time they determined right from wrong, good from evil, and that a lot can be learned/gleaned from the world and surrounding universe.

You don't have to respond to such childish and insulting posts.