montelatici
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What deportations? Deporting to where? There will be no deportations just a disenfranchised majority population under Jewish rule.
Is there any hope for the PA
- Thread starter Boston1
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Half truth, while the Arab colonists might call the area home, they cannot refer to it as their country as palestine was never a country, something else we can lay squarely at the feet of the PA and the revisionist machine
montelatici
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There are no Arab colonists. Native people cannot be colonists. Your little word game is just childish.
The Native Americans called America home but there were no countries or states in the Americas.
The only revisionists are the Zionists.
The Native Americans called America home but there were no countries or states in the Americas.
The only revisionists are the Zionists.
- Thread starter
- #65
Word game my ass ;--) with all due respect of course. The subject has been detailed here
View This Thread
See post 44 for a detailed genetic analysis of the colonization of the Israeli area by Arabs
Meanwhile I'm curious if you have anything to say concerning the subject matter of this particular thread ?
PS
Native americans ( of which I am one ) have every right to call the Americas home because it can be shown through genetic research that they were the first peoples arriving well into the neolithic period. Just as the Judaic people can be traced back an equal amount of time within the area of Israel.
Really though, the subject is who's going to lead the palestinian people on the road to peace
Last edited:
montelatici
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What Judaic people? The Canaanites were the ancestors of most of the people in Palestine, including the Jews.
"The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001). ã American Society for Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, 2001. Published by Elsevier Sciece Inc.
Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians from Anatolia and the East. These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites (1125 BC) but found the struggle with the Philistines (Palestinians) more difficult. Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and also controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem. The “sea people” contributed to the fall of the Anatolian Hittites and other Middle East people by 1200 BC and apparently seriously threatened Egypt [5]. The Philistines have been included among the “sea people” invaders. However, it is doubtful that big amounts of people entered nowadays Anatolia and Palestine; a new iron technology probably was taken de novo by some autochthonous Canaanite tribes that acquired superiority."
http://www.rense.com/general48/palestinians.pdf
"The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001). ã American Society for Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, 2001. Published by Elsevier Sciece Inc.
Most ancient recorded inhabitants of Palestine are named Canaanites (3rd millennium BC or more ancient). They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho. Palestine’s location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Anatolia. During the second millennium BC, Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians from Anatolia and the East. These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200,000. Egyptian power began to weaken, and new invaders or autochthonous people appeared or made themselves noticeable [4]. The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated most of the Canaanites (1125 BC) but found the struggle with the Philistines (Palestinians) more difficult. Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and also controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem. The “sea people” contributed to the fall of the Anatolian Hittites and other Middle East people by 1200 BC and apparently seriously threatened Egypt [5]. The Philistines have been included among the “sea people” invaders. However, it is doubtful that big amounts of people entered nowadays Anatolia and Palestine; a new iron technology probably was taken de novo by some autochthonous Canaanite tribes that acquired superiority."
http://www.rense.com/general48/palestinians.pdf
montelatici
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Let me remind you, the self-declared colonists are the European Zionists.
An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”
Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin
- Thread starter
- #68
You have been politely asked on multiple occasions to not span threads. Your views on the Arab Muslim colonization of the Israeli area have all been debunked on the following thread
View This Thread
see post 44
I will once again remind you of this threads topic and offer you another chance to respond politely to the issues presented here.
View This Thread
see post 44
I will once again remind you of this threads topic and offer you another chance to respond politely to the issues presented here.
Oh, no. Not this silly cut and paste you have cross posted multiple times in multiple threads.....
Let me remind you, the self-declared colonists are the European Zionists.
An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”
Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin
I'm afraid the PA is as useless now as it has been in the past. Since the invention by Arafat of "Pal'istanians" as a national identity for an invented people with an invented identity, the "Palestinian" Arab welfare fraud has been a colossal waste of money.
Arafat II, (Abbas), is 80 years old and likely intending to retire to his multi-million dollar mansion, built with infidel welfare dollars showered on the Pal'istanian money grubbers. Islamic terrorist "leadership" has been all the Pal'istanian welfare cheats have ever known and the next Islamic terrorist kleptocrat to replace Abbas will similarly presume an entitlement to the forever Pal'istanian welfare fraud.
It's truly a shame that this fraud has continued. These Islamo-corruptocrats have managed fabulous wealth while directly furthering Pali-Arab terrorism.
LIFESTYLES OF THE RICH AND INFAMOUS
Lifestyles of the Rich and Infamous
Hamas, supposedly elected as a response to Palestinian Authority corruption, is no different than its Fatah counterparts. A Palestinian Authority Minister accused it of stealing 800 million dollars and creating an electricity crisis by charging Gazan Arabs for electricity, but not paying the suppliers, while pocketing the money. Such crises manufactured by malfeasance and corruption are blamed on Israel, with extensive media coverage of Muslims in Gaza sitting in the dark. This leads to more humanitarian assistance, which leads to more corruption, and the cycle goes on.
Arafat II, (Abbas), is 80 years old and likely intending to retire to his multi-million dollar mansion, built with infidel welfare dollars showered on the Pal'istanian money grubbers. Islamic terrorist "leadership" has been all the Pal'istanian welfare cheats have ever known and the next Islamic terrorist kleptocrat to replace Abbas will similarly presume an entitlement to the forever Pal'istanian welfare fraud.
It's truly a shame that this fraud has continued. These Islamo-corruptocrats have managed fabulous wealth while directly furthering Pali-Arab terrorism.
LIFESTYLES OF THE RICH AND INFAMOUS
Lifestyles of the Rich and Infamous
Hamas, supposedly elected as a response to Palestinian Authority corruption, is no different than its Fatah counterparts. A Palestinian Authority Minister accused it of stealing 800 million dollars and creating an electricity crisis by charging Gazan Arabs for electricity, but not paying the suppliers, while pocketing the money. Such crises manufactured by malfeasance and corruption are blamed on Israel, with extensive media coverage of Muslims in Gaza sitting in the dark. This leads to more humanitarian assistance, which leads to more corruption, and the cycle goes on.
pbel
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So call it a nation or homeland.
na·tion
[ˈnāSHən]
http://www.usmessageboard.com/javascript:void(0)
NOUN
- a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory:
"leading industrialized nations"
synonyms: country · sovereign state · state · land · realm · kingdom ·
[more]
republic · fatherland · motherland · people · race- a North American Indian people or confederation of peoples.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
They started to do that with the Unity government, but Israel attacked.
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
The Palestinians do need a Zionist movement tho.. An organized, visionary, and rational leadership that has the GOAL of establishing a nation-state.. Zionist movement was a ethnic world-wide movement, not really a colonial movement with the sanctions and blessings of an established nation.. Traditionally, you can't be a colony without being a colony of some existing structure. There's no superstructure to the "colony" of Israel.. Unless you're Jim Jones or something like that -- there is no other meaning for the word..
The reality is that endless meaningless dying for an UNORGANIZED resistance is plain stupid.. And those of us who WOULD LIKE to see the Palis gain some autonomy -- are frustrated with the couch muffins who egg on the senseless "resistance" and take every opportunity to degrade the PA -- which is the best chance that Palestine had for serious negotiated gains towards nation-hood in the last 100 years..
- Thread starter
- #74
Yes yes I think we all know the definition of the terms. In which case when I say palestine has never been a country I can say it on a factual basis.
- Thread starter
- #75
No Israel objected to negotiating with a terrorist organization
Which is common in world politics
The terrorists hiding among and supported by the by both the UN and the palestinian population then began firing rockets at Israel, which of course responded
- Thread starter
- #76
I'm hesitant to say the palistinians need a nation/state but instead would point out that they already have one, except that its palestinian heshimite leaders have now waffled and claim it is not. I guess its whichever direction the political wind blows.
But I'd make note of previous claims by these same palestinian Heshimite leaders and many others.
Quote
Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan.This is the royal decree and sentiments of two of the kings of Jordan.
“Palestine and Jordan are one…” said King Abdullah in 1948.
“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan,”said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.
Let’s closely examine the facts of history from the Arab perspective, rather than the Jewish one, regarding Jordan and Palestine.
“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate,” Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.
Accordingly, Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, “The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”
In other words, Jordan is Palestine. Arab Palestine. There is absolutely no difference between Jordan and Palestine, nor between Jordanians and Palestinians (all actually Arabs).
This fact is also confirmed by other Arabs, Jordanians and ‘Palestinans’ who were either rulers or scholars.
“There should be a kind of linkage because Jordanians and Palestinians are considered by the PLO as one people,”according to Farouk Kaddoumi, then head of the PLO Political Department, who gave the statement to Newsweek on March 14, 1977. Distinguished Arab-American Princeton University historian Philip Hitti testified before the Anglo-American Committee,
“There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history.”
According to Arab-American columnist Joseph Farah,
“Palestine has never existed – before or since – as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire, and briefly by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland. There was no language known as Palestinian. There was no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a Palestine governed by the Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.”
These authoritative, honest statements are by Arabs, Jordanians and Palestinians, and absolutely must be taken at their face value and word.Allright, so you’re not quite into quotes. How about these tasteful tidbits of historical facts?
* Jews, not Arabs, have lived continuously in the ancient Biblical Promised Land of Israel, especially Judea and Samaria, for 3,700 years. This land was given as a gift by G-d to the Children of Israel (Hebrews, Israelites, Jews) and is so stated in all of the three monotheistic religions’ holy books – Old Testament, New Testament and Quran. Faithful followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in the same one G-d and therefore must believe the word of their G-d. G-d does not make and break his promises. There is a very valuable lesson to be learned by all his children and faithful followers.* The current queen of Jordan is an Arab ‘Palestinian’.
* Approximately half of Jordan’s prime ministers since 1950 have been Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* More than 2/3 of the Jordanian people are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* The majority of citizens residing in the capital of Amman are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* Arab ‘Palestinians’ constitute not less than one half of the members of the armed forces, according to the late King Hussein, as broadcast on Amman Radio February 3, 1973.
* The majority of other security forces are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* Jordan occupies 77% of the original Palestine Mandate (originally promised to the Jewish people). The population density of Jordan is less than 61 people per square mile leaving lots of room to absorb many more of their brethren and cousins.
Want to delve even deeper? Let’s explore further. We all need to refresh our memory, as ‘short-term syndrome’ has taken over. Now for a little history lesson, for those who do not recall the reality of the past.TheBritish tried to placate the Arabs by giving them part of the land designated under the Palestine Mandate (originally allocated under the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish homeland). Britain created an entirely new province by severing 77% of historic Palestine (and an additional 3% was also allocated to Syria), on the eastern bank of the Jordan River (some 35,000 square miles), and establishing the state of Transjordan.
Faisal, who had been King of Syria, was deposed by the French, so the British offered him the throne of Iraq, which he accepted. Faisal’s brother Abdullah was installed as the new nation of Transjordan’s ruler on April 1, 1921 (April Fool’s Day), thereby completing the appeasement of Arab rulers.
During the Arab-Israeli war of 1948, in which nine Arab nations attacked Israel, they took control of the ancient biblical territories of Judea and Samaria (Jewish territory, which was “occupied” for nineteen years until 1967, when it was liberated and reconquered in yet another defensive war).
On April 24, 1950, Abdullah formally merged all of Arab-held Palestine with Transjordan and granted citizenship to all Arab residents and settlers (the vast majority of whom arrived the 1920s for economic reasons).
The Hashemite Kingdom was no longer only across the river so the prefix “Trans” (meaning “across”) was dropped, and henceforth, the land became known as Jordan; i.e., Arab Palestine.
Remember, Jordan is Palestine. Arab Palestine.
Don’t take my word for it. Listen to King Abdullah, King Hussein, Prince Hassan, Farouk Kaddoumi, Phillip Hitti and Joseph Farah, Arab, Jordanian and Palestinian authorities on the subject; and listen to the historical facts, as well.
©2004 – IsraelNationalNews.com
End Quote
So really the issue isn't if the palestinians would be better off with a "nation/state of their own". I think the question is more accurately stated as, "would the palestinians or the Israeli's be better off if the palestinians had ANOTHER nation/state of their own.
But I'd make note of previous claims by these same palestinian Heshimite leaders and many others.
Quote
Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan.This is the royal decree and sentiments of two of the kings of Jordan.
“Palestine and Jordan are one…” said King Abdullah in 1948.
“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan,”said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.
Let’s closely examine the facts of history from the Arab perspective, rather than the Jewish one, regarding Jordan and Palestine.
“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate,” Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.
Accordingly, Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, “The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”
In other words, Jordan is Palestine. Arab Palestine. There is absolutely no difference between Jordan and Palestine, nor between Jordanians and Palestinians (all actually Arabs).
This fact is also confirmed by other Arabs, Jordanians and ‘Palestinans’ who were either rulers or scholars.
“There should be a kind of linkage because Jordanians and Palestinians are considered by the PLO as one people,”according to Farouk Kaddoumi, then head of the PLO Political Department, who gave the statement to Newsweek on March 14, 1977. Distinguished Arab-American Princeton University historian Philip Hitti testified before the Anglo-American Committee,
“There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history.”
According to Arab-American columnist Joseph Farah,
“Palestine has never existed – before or since – as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire, and briefly by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland. There was no language known as Palestinian. There was no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a Palestine governed by the Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.”
These authoritative, honest statements are by Arabs, Jordanians and Palestinians, and absolutely must be taken at their face value and word.Allright, so you’re not quite into quotes. How about these tasteful tidbits of historical facts?
* Jews, not Arabs, have lived continuously in the ancient Biblical Promised Land of Israel, especially Judea and Samaria, for 3,700 years. This land was given as a gift by G-d to the Children of Israel (Hebrews, Israelites, Jews) and is so stated in all of the three monotheistic religions’ holy books – Old Testament, New Testament and Quran. Faithful followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in the same one G-d and therefore must believe the word of their G-d. G-d does not make and break his promises. There is a very valuable lesson to be learned by all his children and faithful followers.* The current queen of Jordan is an Arab ‘Palestinian’.
* Approximately half of Jordan’s prime ministers since 1950 have been Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* More than 2/3 of the Jordanian people are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* The majority of citizens residing in the capital of Amman are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* Arab ‘Palestinians’ constitute not less than one half of the members of the armed forces, according to the late King Hussein, as broadcast on Amman Radio February 3, 1973.
* The majority of other security forces are Arab ‘Palestinians’.
* Jordan occupies 77% of the original Palestine Mandate (originally promised to the Jewish people). The population density of Jordan is less than 61 people per square mile leaving lots of room to absorb many more of their brethren and cousins.
Want to delve even deeper? Let’s explore further. We all need to refresh our memory, as ‘short-term syndrome’ has taken over. Now for a little history lesson, for those who do not recall the reality of the past.TheBritish tried to placate the Arabs by giving them part of the land designated under the Palestine Mandate (originally allocated under the Balfour Declaration for the establishment of a Jewish homeland). Britain created an entirely new province by severing 77% of historic Palestine (and an additional 3% was also allocated to Syria), on the eastern bank of the Jordan River (some 35,000 square miles), and establishing the state of Transjordan.
Faisal, who had been King of Syria, was deposed by the French, so the British offered him the throne of Iraq, which he accepted. Faisal’s brother Abdullah was installed as the new nation of Transjordan’s ruler on April 1, 1921 (April Fool’s Day), thereby completing the appeasement of Arab rulers.
During the Arab-Israeli war of 1948, in which nine Arab nations attacked Israel, they took control of the ancient biblical territories of Judea and Samaria (Jewish territory, which was “occupied” for nineteen years until 1967, when it was liberated and reconquered in yet another defensive war).
On April 24, 1950, Abdullah formally merged all of Arab-held Palestine with Transjordan and granted citizenship to all Arab residents and settlers (the vast majority of whom arrived the 1920s for economic reasons).
The Hashemite Kingdom was no longer only across the river so the prefix “Trans” (meaning “across”) was dropped, and henceforth, the land became known as Jordan; i.e., Arab Palestine.
Remember, Jordan is Palestine. Arab Palestine.
Don’t take my word for it. Listen to King Abdullah, King Hussein, Prince Hassan, Farouk Kaddoumi, Phillip Hitti and Joseph Farah, Arab, Jordanian and Palestinian authorities on the subject; and listen to the historical facts, as well.
©2004 – IsraelNationalNews.com
End Quote
So really the issue isn't if the palestinians would be better off with a "nation/state of their own". I think the question is more accurately stated as, "would the palestinians or the Israeli's be better off if the palestinians had ANOTHER nation/state of their own.
montelatici
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Of course Israel was a colonial project, the Zionists self-described themselves as colonists and had the support and "blessing" of Britain and other colonial powers.
There is no longer any possibility of establishing a Palestinian state even if the Israelis were agreeable to it, and they are not.
Rattling on with the same pointless slogans and cliche's does nothing to support an argument.
The Islamist colonial project waged by the Ottoman Turks and which was defined by war and rapine collapsed long before 1924. That point in history defined the events of the Ottoman Turks ceding the end of their colonial project and administration of the territory transferred to others.
The Islamist colonizers acknowledged the end of their colonial project and the end of Islamist conquests.
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Palestinians never WORKED at creating a nation state. That's the classic failure mechanism for the past 200 years. Israel worked with Egypt and Lebanon to negotiate release of lands captured during the war. Would have worked with Jordan to negotiate the West Bank. But the problem is -- there has never been a fully supported credible "Palestine" partner to work with. The PA was the BEST choice. And now it's dysfunctional. Boston is correct -- you don't negotiate with mobs for nation status...
Israel worked in GOOD FAITH to drag settlers from Gaza and cut it loose to the PA.. Had plans for normalizing borders and trade for an AUTONOMOUS Gaza.. That road to peace lasted less than 8 months before the radicals took hold of the process and killed it dead.
You're in denial about the anarchy and futile violence that substitutes for any interest in building a Palestine.
pbel
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Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.
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