Is there any hope for the PA

[Hollie]

Just facts Ruddy, just facts.

Egypt finds hundreds more tunnels from Gaza

Egypt is reportedly doubling down on its work to set up a buffer zone with the Gaza Strip, after it discovered hundreds more tunnels running from the Hamas-run Palestinian enclave into the Sinai Peninsula.

According to a report on Sky News Arabic on Saturday, Cairo recently uncovered the tunnels using satellite imagery.



Clearly, the facts tend to confuse you. However, the fact is that Egypt has had security breaches along the border it defends from the Islamic terrorists occupying Gaza.

 

[flacaltenn]

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

Fine way for a "moderator" to behave. LOL

To avoid losing aid from the U.S. Egypt can only allow persons to pass through the Rafah border. Goods have to go through Israeli controlled border crossings. Morsi opened the crossing up for goods and Egypt would have lost the U.S. aid had the democratically elected government not been overthrown by the military.

Yes, the threat remains, but since the military coup which put in place a general who knows the rules no steps have to be taken. Al Sisi closed the border once the democratically elected government, which had opened the crossing for the import and export of goods, was overthrown. But the threat is there. It's not like funds haven't been cut before for allowing an open border crossing for more than people.

"...the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, withholds the obligation of $100 million in Foreign Military Financing until the Secretary of State certifies, among other things, that Egypt has taken concrete steps to “detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.”

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34346.pdf

That quote says NOTHING about stopping American Aid unless the Rafah crossing denies goods to pass.

It is a statement about TUNNELS and SMUGGLING networks. I'm not wading into your Wonderland here Alice, so if you got anything concrete to say -- now would be a good time. BETTER QUESTION would be, what could have a UNIFIED PA done to get legitimate trade flowing freely thru that border..

 

[flacaltenn]

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

Fine way for a "moderator" to behave. LOL

To avoid losing aid from the U.S. Egypt can only allow persons to pass through the Rafah border. Goods have to go through Israeli controlled border crossings. Morsi opened the crossing up for goods and Egypt would have lost the U.S. aid had the democratically elected government not been overthrown by the military.

Yes, the threat remains, but since the military coup which put in place a general who knows the rules no steps have to be taken. Al Sisi closed the border once the democratically elected government, which had opened the crossing for the import and export of goods, was overthrown. But the threat is there. It's not like funds haven't been cut before for allowing an open border crossing for more than people.

"...the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, withholds the obligation of $100 million in Foreign Military Financing until the Secretary of State certifies, among other things, that Egypt has taken concrete steps to “detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.”

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34346.pdf

You ever read the actual language of this bureaucratic appropriations garbage??

SEC. 690. (a) Of the funds appropriated by this Act under the heading ‘‘Foreign Military Financing Program’’ or under the heading ‘‘Economic Support Fund’’ that are available for assistance for Egypt, $100,000,000 shall not be made available for obligation until the Secretary of State certifies and reports to the Committees on Appropriations that the Government of Egypt has taken concrete and measurable steps to—
(1) adopt and implement judicial reforms that protect the independence of the judiciary;

(2) review criminal procedures and train police leadership in modern policing to curb police abuses; and

(3) detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.

(b) Not less than 45 days after enactment of this Act, the Secretary may waive subsection (a) if the Secretary determines and reports to the Committees on Appropriations that such waiver is in the national security interest of the United States.

One of THREE conditions for withholding military aid to Egypt.. AND the Sec State merely needs to certify that they are "working on it". You call that "pressure"? I call it useless American political posturing.. Egypt was NEVER in jeopardy of losing US aid because of that weak-ass language.

Here -- have a great read of 614 OTHER pages of useless attempts to exert Congressional OverSight on the military budget. It's what those guys do for a living...

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-110publ161/pdf/PLAW-110publ161.pdf

 

[montelatici]

Why do you insist on denying that there is no U.S. pressure on Egypt to keep the Rafah crossing closed?

"Egypt later said it would open the crossing temporarily, but just for three days, mainly to permit travel for humanitarian purposes such as Palestinians seeking medical care abroad........................................................
....................................................hoped the election of the Muslim Brotherhood's Mursi would usher in an era of strong ties between Gaza and Cairo, but that has yet to materialize because of strategic considerations involving Egypt's 1979 peace treaty with Israel and related military aid from the United States."

Egypt reopens Rafah crossing with Gaza: sources

"Egypt is also under pressure from the Americans to keep the border closed and to put a halt to smuggling. Israel and Egypt are the two biggest recipients of US Foreign Military Financing (congressionally appropriated grants given to governments to finance the purchase of American weapons.) Israel has demanded “that the United States condition its annual $1.3 billion in military assistance [to Egypt] on Egypt’s efforts to thwart smuggling.”11 Section 690 of P.L. 110-161, the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, makes $100 million dollars conditional on, amongst other things, Egypt’s efforts to detect and destroy smuggling tunnels. Therefore, Egypt’s closure of the border is in large part due to outside pressure from America, Israel and Fatah, and the desire to contain the influence of Islamist groups domestically."

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=387

 

[flacaltenn]

Why do you insist on denying that there is no U.S. pressure on Egypt to keep the Rafah crossing closed?

"Egypt later said it would open the crossing temporarily, but just for three days, mainly to permit travel for humanitarian purposes such as Palestinians seeking medical care abroad........................................................
....................................................hoped the election of the Muslim Brotherhood's Mursi would usher in an era of strong ties between Gaza and Cairo, but that has yet to materialize because of strategic considerations involving Egypt's 1979 peace treaty with Israel and related military aid from the United States."

Egypt reopens Rafah crossing with Gaza: sources

"Egypt is also under pressure from the Americans to keep the border closed and to put a halt to smuggling. Israel and Egypt are the two biggest recipients of US Foreign Military Financing (congressionally appropriated grants given to governments to finance the purchase of American weapons.) Israel has demanded “that the United States condition its annual $1.3 billion in military assistance [to Egypt] on Egypt’s efforts to thwart smuggling.”11 Section 690 of P.L. 110-161, the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, makes $100 million dollars conditional on, amongst other things, Egypt’s efforts to detect and destroy smuggling tunnels. Therefore, Egypt’s closure of the border is in large part due to outside pressure from America, Israel and Fatah, and the desire to contain the influence of Islamist groups domestically."

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=387

I JUST GAVE YOU --- the specific appropriations language for that "threat".. CLEARLY conditioned on other things as well as targeting TUNNELS and ILLICIT TRADE -- not the free flow of goods. How long before you read and understand that??

Don't care HOW MANY times that little bureaucratic clause is found on the Internet. It NEVER actually would have kept a single dollar from Egypt..

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

1) Hamas is not a security threat to Egypt.

2) Peace can only deteriorate as long as students cannot get to class and producers cannot export their goods.

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

1) Hamas is not a security threat to Egypt.

2) Peace can only deteriorate as long as students cannot get to class and producers cannot export their goods.

1) Please explain that to the leadership of Egypt. Not to us.
2) I sympathize. They should think about forming a nation..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

1) Hamas is not a security threat to Egypt.

2) Peace can only deteriorate as long as students cannot get to class and producers cannot export their goods.

1) Please explain that to the leadership of Egypt. Not to us.
2) I sympathize. They should think about forming a nation..

Hamas cannot talk louder than the $1.3B from the US

 

[montelatici]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

You actually can't discern how ridiculous it is to claim that the threat of losing a billion or more dollars does not affect the Egyptians, especially the military who now rule and spend the money, and their management of the Rafah crossing. That is the definition of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Hollie]

Let's see what's happening at the Rafah crossing RECENTLY.. No thanks to the Palis or their dysfunctional government.

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/s...ening-of-the-rafah-border-crossing/?print=pdf


Israel and Hamas Talks There are signs that the mood music between Hamas and Israel may be gradually changing. And as a result, so too, may Egypt’s. There are wide reports this month of Hamas and Israel involved in “indirect” talks over an easing of the blockade and entry of materials into Gaza in “exchange for quiet.” This has also come on the heels of the former head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence service calling for “direct dialogue” between Hamas and Israel. Around the same time, as reported by Israeli news source Haaretz, many Egyptian officials have been speaking of a “need to talk to Hamas,” making specific reference to the Gaza-based Islamist party and not other Palestinian factions. Such comments culminated in Egypt’s opening of Rafah over the last week, and 188 truckloads of construction material, including thousands of tons of cement, were allowed to pass without security inspection into Gaza. As a result of Israel’s ostensible talks with Hamas, Sisi likely feels less compelled to enforce the iron curtain at Rafah. He may also be attempting to send a political message to Israel: that if you engage in talks with our enemies (the Muslim brotherhood), then we can’t continue to ensure your security. Regional politics aside, one thing is definitely certain: that the opening of Rafah provided Gaza’s Palestinians with a temporary respite from total entrapment, and a glimmer of hope for the future.

This is how badly you understand Egypt's role at Rafah. This ME source believes that Sisi is opening Rafah to TAUNT Israel and discourage Israel from talks with Hamas. You should understand that "truth" in MidEast is an "overexaggerated" quantity. And that motives are no way as clear as WE might think we understand them..

1) Hamas is not a security threat to Egypt.

2) Peace can only deteriorate as long as students cannot get to class and producers cannot export their goods.

Hamas is not a security threat to Egypt?

Hamas tries to make nice with Egypt to focus on intifada - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
Hamas tries to make nice with Egypt to focus on intifada
Author: Adnan Abu AmerPosted October 22, 2015

Many people have been killed and more wounded in recent months during attacks between the Egyptian military and armed groups along the Sinai-Gaza border, despite Egyptian forces’ security measures. Egypt has accused armed groups in Gaza in the attacks, according to security sources who spoke on condition of anonymity this month.



Peace can only deteriorate as long as students cannot get to class and producers cannot export their goods?

Schoolbooks

High school exam questions promote violence and struggle against Israel

Source: Al-Ayyam, May 1, 2013

Headline: “Questions and answers from the Arab language matriculation exams, form number two”

Question no. 10: Circle the correct answers for the following questions:
6. One of the following sentences is a declarative clause …
D. O self-sacrificing fighter (Fedayyeen), your dwelling is Paradise, Allah willing…

Lovely.

You see, Tinny, the real issue is that the next generation of islamo-death cultists are going to their islamo-death cult schools and learning their islamo-death cult lessons.

These are the islamic terrrorist thugs from competing franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc.:

Mahmoud "Arafat's Shadow" Abbas' Fatah party and the stepchild of the Moslem Brotherhood.

So, still, an immigrant Arab/Moslem squatters, in a nonexistent state, with an invented refugee status (complete with their own huge personal UN welfare program) have managed to continue welfare fraud through the homicidal terror of jihad. And of course, they couldn't have done it without the support, tacit and overt, of the islamic terror-enabling efforts of UNRWA, useful idiots, and media who grant legitimacy to their inveterate hatred of Israel and their murder of Israelis (and themselves). If Arafat can see this from whatever circle of hell he's in (probably the same one as Muhammad), he must be shuffling his welfare checks.

 

[Boston1]

PA and Abbas on the brink of collapse

Palestinian Authority adrift after three months of unrest

Quote
There is even speculation of an eventual collapse of the PA, the governing authority set up under the 1990s Oslo accords that were meant to lead to a final peace deal.

"Young people see no political horizon and suffer from economic crisis and unemployment," with nearly half jobless compared with more than 27 percent of the overall population, said Ghassan Khatib, vice president of Birzeit University near Ramallah and a former Palestinian cabinet minister.
End Quote

Its pretty obvious that the PA has failed miserably to accomplish much of anything and funding them is throwing good money after bad.

Unemployment is sky high. Security is non existent. The ability to govern, hopeless. How is Israel supposed to negotiate when their is no one to negotiate with ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

PA and Abbas on the brink of collapse

Palestinian Authority adrift after three months of unrest

Quote
There is even speculation of an eventual collapse of the PA, the governing authority set up under the 1990s Oslo accords that were meant to lead to a final peace deal.

"Young people see no political horizon and suffer from economic crisis and unemployment," with nearly half jobless compared with more than 27 percent of the overall population, said Ghassan Khatib, vice president of Birzeit University near Ramallah and a former Palestinian cabinet minister.
End Quote

Its pretty obvious that the PA has failed miserably to accomplish much of anything and funding them is throwing good money after bad.

Unemployment is sky high. Security is non existent. The ability to govern, hopeless. How is Israel supposed to negotiate when their is no one to negotiate with ?

Its pretty obvious that the PA has failed miserably to accomplish much of anything and funding them is throwing good money after bad.​

Why do you think the US put Fatah back in power after losing the 2006 elections?

 

[montelatici]

The PA was set up for failure. The Israelis never had any intention of allowing the establishment of a sovereign and independent state for the Christians and Muslims. If it wasn't for EU millions/billions that the PA leadership line their pockets with, they would have packed it in long ago.

 

[Hollie]

The PA was set up for failure. The Israelis never had any intention of allowing the establishment of a sovereign and independent state for the Christians and Muslims. If it wasn't for EU millions/billions that the PA leadership line their pockets with, they would have packed it in long ago.

I'm afraid yours are the usual excuses for greed, corruption and incompetence that has come to define Pal'istanian retrogression. For as long as the Pal'istanian welfare scammers refuse to take responsibility for themselves, they will remain the impotent little victims they choose to be.

Hamas shares in the fraud that the UNRWA welfare program perpetuates so lets be honest and acknowledge that Pal'istanians (the vast numbers of whom are government welfare program employees), share in the fraud.

Lastly, it's a laughable joke to suggest that a majority Islamist population would ever share nation where equal rights are granted to a minority xtian population. At no time in Islamist history have islamists treated the hated kuffar as equals.

Do make an attempt to understand Islamo-history. Ignorance is no excuse.